Just now, Highland said:

A team should not trade a talent like Crochet.

I don't want him to go either.  He's special.  

So was Sale.

53 minutes ago, FranksPillz said:

I don't want him to go either.  He's special.  

So was Sale.

I agree on Sale. Since trading him, the Sox have won two post season games. When do they stop trading for prospects?

22 minutes ago, Highland said:

I agree on Sale. Since trading him, the Sox have won two post season games. When do they stop trading for prospects?

How many did they win with Sale?

27 minutes ago, Highland said:

I agree on Sale. Since trading him, the Sox have won two post season games. When do they stop trading for prospects?

When new ownership arrives and builds a competent front office and that also spends money on development and acquiring top-level free agent talent.

Until then the only "hope" may be...notice I said maybe, getting as much young talent as possible and hope (there's that word again) it can develop under the current dysfunctional organization.

Seriously what else can be done given the restrictions JR has implemented????????????????????????

If there is another avenue I wish someone would explain it to me.  

The tit for tat stuff is a waste of time.  Beat each other up over your view of stats and the other guy who only wants the Sox to win...like YOU.  Be a fan or don't.

Anyway - the White Sox (I'm convinced) is 100% incapable of acquiring offensive producing for the superior pitching they trade away.

It's a fact.

The WHOLE GODDMAN LEAGUE wants to get White Sox pitchers and give us their "stuff".
 

When has that "stuff" ever been...a thing?  Ever?

 

 

We should stop trading/positioning pitching prospects for parts, but instead buy trainers and developers.  The BEST $ can buy.

But we don't.  Cause Jerry doesn't care about winning, only $.

1 hour ago, T R U said:

How many did they win with Sale?

None, and that is a reflection of the whole situation. They should have built a winning team around him and didn't.

They are in a perpetual state of rebuilding. When they will have a winning team is anyone's guess, but I don't think it will be any time soon. But they do have an announcer that growls.

Just now, Highland said:

None, and that is a reflection of the whole situation. They should have built a winning team around him and didn't.

They are in a perpetual state of rebuilding. When they will have a winning team is anyone's guess, but I don't think it will be any time soon. But they do have an announcer that growls.

Things will change significantly the day new ownership arrives.

Whether that is for good or bad remains to be seen.

But change is desperately needed and at some point it has to come. 

I am all for the Sox to extend Crochet but if it turns out the Sox do trade him they better get a haul. At least the minors have some arms on the way.

2026 Starters:

Thorpe

Cannon

Grant Taylor

Noah Schultz

Mason Adams

Bullpen :, Leasure, Nastrini,  Ky Bush, Jake Eder, Iriarte

Edited July 1, 20241 yr by Falstaff

Has anything changed such that teams will trade away their best prospects or even their 3rd best? We heard all about all of the great offers for Cease, but in the end we got one player in the  back half of the top 100. 
There are some FOs that have done it in the recent past, but one of those is San Diego and they didn’t. Seattle and Philly are others, but they don’t need pitching. Baltimore and Milwaukee certainly need a starter, but they didn’t get where they are by trading away good prospects.

And then there is the timing. If they want to trade him, they should be purely focused on that. But they seem to be prioritizing the All-Star game, which really means they won’t trade him until after that:  and then Pedro yaps  about limiting workload  and they throw him 7 yesterday.

All kind of a mess.  

1 minute ago, GreenSox said:

Has anything changed such that teams will trade away their best prospects or even their 3rd best? We heard all about all of the great offers for Cease, but in the end we got one player in the  back half of the top 100. 
There are some FOs that have done it in the recent past, but one of those is San Diego and they didn’t. Seattle and Philly are others, but they don’t need pitching. Baltimore and Milwaukee certainly need a starter, but they didn’t get where they are by trading away good prospects.

And then there is the timing. If they want to trade him, they should be purely focused on that. But they seem to be prioritizing the All-Star game, which really means they won’t trade him until after that:  and then Pedro yaps  about limiting workload  and they throw him 7 yesterday.

All kind of a mess.  

They got a 55 FV, a 50 FV, a 45+ FV, and an interesting controllable reliever in return.  It wasn’t an epic return as the centerpiece was much more floor than ceiling, but I think you and several others are greatly understating its quality.

30 minutes ago, Falstaff said:

I am all for the Sox to extend Crochet but if it turns out the Sox do trade him they better get a haul. At least the minors have some arms on the way.

2026 Starters:

Thorpe

Cannon

Grant Taylor

Noah Schultz

Mason Adams

Bullpen :, Leasure, Nastrini,  Ky Bush, Jake Eder, Iriarte

No doubt we have some arms, but outside of Schultz and maybe Iriarte and/or Taylor I think the group lacks true TOR ceiling.  Most of these guys are probably #4 or #5 type starters on championship caliber teams with a couple I could see being #3’s if all goes to plan like Thorpe for example.

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

They got a 55 FV, a 50 FV, a 45+ FV, and an interesting controllable reliever in return.  It wasn’t an epic return as the centerpiece was much more floor than ceiling, but I think you and several others are greatly understating its quality.

Perhaps so; I certainly hope so.
But shouldn't  we expect about the same for Crochet?   Both are ace level; Cease had a down 2023 versus concerns about Crochet's innings and injury history.
Now Crochet's peak is higher than Cease's so that might mean a bit higher return for Crochet; July v. offseason might help, too.  

But it's in the ballpark; would we be happy with that?

8 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Perhaps so; I certainly hope so.
But shouldn't  we expect about the same for Crochet?   Both are ace level; Cease had a down 2023 versus concerns about Crochet's innings and injury history.
Now Crochet's peak is higher than Cease's so that might mean a bit higher return for Crochet; July v. offseason might help, too.  

But it's in the ballpark; would we be happy with that?

I think the difference is Crochet looks like arguably the best pitcher in baseball right now and is even cheaper than Cease is with potentially three post-seasons to make a difference.  I admit that I question how a team will keep him at this level between now and October, but the market for SP is going to be incredibly seller friendly and there won’t be any other starters available with this type of series changing ability.  As long as teams feel there is a path to keep him strong until October, I think he will command a return much stronger than Cease’s.

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

They got a 55 FV, a 50 FV, a 45+ FV, and an interesting controllable reliever in return.  It wasn’t an epic return as the centerpiece was much more floor than ceiling, but I think you and several others are greatly understating its quality.

I'd say a 55 pitching prospect is like a 45 hitter imo. It was a weak return to kick start the rebuild

3 hours ago, Falstaff said:

I am all for the Sox to extend Crochet but if it turns out the Sox do trade him they better get a haul. At least the minors have some arms on the way.

2026 Starters:

Thorpe

Cannon

Grant Taylor

Noah Schultz

Mason Adams

Bullpen :, Leasure, Nastrini,  Ky Bush, Jake Eder, Iriarte

That’s quite the fall from grace for Nastrini…and might as well throw Berroa Scholtens and Martin out there.

I think I've been the opposite of GreenSox re: trades for like 8 years now, but I'm solidly with him here.

• Crochet is a 1.5 years older than Thorpe. If they aren't contending with Crochet, then we'll be talking about trading Thorpe in 3 years for the same reasons. 
• Getz supposedly controlled the market with Cease and got back his high-floor starter with Thorpe, two lotto tickets in Iriarte (who is having a good, but not great, season) and Zavala (horrendous season, but is young for his level) and a depreciating asset in Steven Wilson (WHIP's up, strikeouts are down, HR rate is up and he'll be 30 this year. Crochet will have half a season of dominant ball by this year's trade deadline + a looming innings limit - if Getz doesn't get multiple top position prospects for him...what's the point of dropping an ace other than "Jerry won't let me sign him?" And in that case, you've become the Rays/Guardians, without the ability to develop hitters.

2 hours ago, GreenSox said:

Has anything changed such that teams will trade away their best prospects or even their 3rd best? We heard all about all of the great offers for Cease, but in the end we got one player in the  back half of the top 100. 
There are some FOs that have done it in the recent past, but one of those is San Diego and they didn’t. Seattle and Philly are others, but they don’t need pitching. Baltimore and Milwaukee certainly need a starter, but they didn’t get where they are by trading away good prospects.

And then there is the timing. If they want to trade him, they should be purely focused on that. But they seem to be prioritizing the All-Star game, which really means they won’t trade him until after that:  and then Pedro yaps  about limiting workload  and they throw him 7 yesterday.

All kind of a mess.  

SD did it for Soto.

And now James Wood (debuting today) Abrams and Gore will haunt Prelller.

5 minutes ago, Quin said:

I think I've been the opposite of GreenSox re: trades for like 8 years now, but I'm solidly with him here.

• Crochet is a 1.5 years older than Thorpe. If they aren't contending with Crochet, then we'll be talking about trading Thorpe in 3 years for the same reasons. 
• Getz supposedly controlled the market with Cease and got back his high-floor starter with Thorpe, two lotto tickets in Iriarte (who is having a good, but not great, season) and Zavala (horrendous season, but is young for his level) and a depreciating asset in Steven Wilson (WHIP's up, strikeouts are down, HR rate is up and he'll be 30 this year. Crochet will have half a season of dominant ball by this year's trade deadline + a looming innings limit - if Getz doesn't get multiple top position prospects for him...what's the point of dropping an ace other than "Jerry won't let me sign him?" And in that case, you've become the Rays/Guardians, without the ability to develop hitters.

I dont think Iriarte is a lotto ticket. According to one service (it may have been Baseball Prospectus not sure I don't remember), he was a Top 100 prospect.

And "Jerry won't let me sign him" is a perfectly good reason by itself to trade the player. If you can't keep him and we know we can't, it's best to sell high and this is certainly a very high point. 

 

6 minutes ago, bmags said:

I'd say a 55 pitching prospect is like a 45 hitter imo. It was a weak return to kick start the rebuild

No doubt a 55 FV pitcher is not worth the same as 55 FV positional prospect, but I don’t think the value differential is that large.  But look, I agree it’s not the sexiest of returns on paper, but if Thorpe can be a 3 win starter for the next six years that alone would be solid return.  And there is still real upside in Iriarte & Zavala even if the results this year aren’t exactly stellar.

White Sox are a large market team running their GM and owner decisions like a small market team, without receiving any of the advantages a small market team gets, and all the disadvantages of a large market team. 
 

Nice… ?

6 minutes ago, Quin said:

Crochet is a 1.5 years older than Thorpe. If they aren't contending with Crochet, then we'll be talking about trading Thorpe in 3 years for the same reasons. 

2026 is Crochet's walk year. 2030 is Thorpe's, if he stays in the majors. We may be a .500 team in 2026. We really should be "competitive" before 2030. 

Come on White Sox.  He just turned 25 last week.   Randy Johnson pitched to 45.  Kershaw still pitching at 35.   Strong tall lefties with good fundamentals can do this for a long time.  Why couldn't he be the mainstay of our rotation for ten years?  Don't say money. JR has been in top ten payrolls many times including two years ago.  Just imagine that rotation...playoff series with Crochett blowing people away, Thorpe driving them crazy Buehrlesque and Shultz blowing people away.  Get off the rebuild drug.    

5 minutes ago, Quin said:

I think I've been the opposite of GreenSox re: trades for like 8 years now, but I'm solidly with him here.

• Crochet is a 1.5 years older than Thorpe. If they aren't contending with Crochet, then we'll be talking about trading Thorpe in 3 years for the same reasons. 
• Getz supposedly controlled the market with Cease and got back his high-floor starter with Thorpe, two lotto tickets in Iriarte (who is having a good, but not great, season) and Zavala (horrendous season, but is young for his level) and a depreciating asset in Steven Wilson (WHIP's up, strikeouts are down, HR rate is up and he'll be 30 this year. Crochet will have half a season of dominant ball by this year's trade deadline + a looming innings limit - if Getz doesn't get multiple top position prospects for him...what's the point of dropping an ace other than "Jerry won't let me sign him?" And in that case, you've become the Rays/Guardians, without the ability to develop hitters.

It’s amazing what the Guardians have accomplished without Bieber McKenzie and Quantrill from recent teams.

They also have the #1-1 pick in July and already two of the top ten minor league outfielders in their system.

But the whole thing was built around Jose Ramirez and team-friendly extensions to the right young players.

 

Along with Ramirez, you’ve Fry from Brewers, Naylor from Padres and Gimenez from the Lindor deal…those are your offensive keys, along with the great pick of Kwan out of OSU.  He’s like the Lance Johnson of that team.  Everyone in the world underrated/undervalued him.  Overvalued Madrigal and the other power bats.

5 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

2026 is Crochet's walk year. 2030 is Thorpe's, if he stays in the majors. We may be a .500 team in 2026. We really should be "competitive" before 2030. 

A normal team would agree with this.

The Sox? 

"Oh, we're not quite there yet. Thorpe's hitting arbitration, need to trade him."