How accurate is this? I get that you get a bump in second arb year, but double for Vaughn after a worse season? I’d think he’d be looking at something closer to the minimal 10% increase

3 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

Who the hell is going to pick up Andrew Vaughn and give him the starting 1B job? That's why he'd come back. He isn't worth half of what they paid him last year, let alone a jump to $6.4M. Its the cold reality of the business side of baseball, and a lesson young Andrew will soon learn.

Look if the Sox want to be in the business of giving away millions of dollars for no production, they can pay me to sit home and put up more positive WAR than Andrew Vaughn did in 2024.

35 minutes ago, oldsox said:

Tender him just to piss him off.

Yeah, paying a guy six million dollars for being terrible is really sticking it to him.

3 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

Who the hell is going to pick up Andrew Vaughn and give him the starting 1B job? 

Maybe one of the teams that have been getting worse production out of first base.

19 minutes ago, joejoesox said:

again, where are you seeing Vaughn as a potential 750-800 OPS guy? he's nowhere near that, and even giving him the benefit of the doubt and saying he has untapped potential, the Sox aren't unlocking it.  like someone else said, put Vargas at 1B and upgrade 3B or just play Ramos there for a year, or hell maybe Colson lands at 3B in August

Well, his career .725 OPS is why I am saying a best case scenario is he can be somewhere between .750 - .800 next season for the first half and we can maybe get something usable for him. I don't expect it, and I understand hes not good. There is no reason not to roll the dice on that though because hes not blocking anyone and our payroll is insignificant for next season.

6 minutes ago, 46DidIt said:

Maybe one of the teams that have been getting worse production out of first base.

That's gotta be a very short list. Hard to be worse than the combo of Vaughn and Sheets.

7 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

That's gotta be a very short list. Hard to be worse than the combo of Vaughn and Sheets.

Well just off the top of my head the Tigers and Yankees are running out worse in playoff games

Can’t imagine spending $14M on Vaughn, Sheets and Lopez. That would be a horrible use of resources 

Crochet obviously. Wilson, I guess. Maybe DLS and Foster. That’s it.

13 minutes ago, Boopa1219 said:

Can’t imagine spending $14M on Vaughn, Sheets and Lopez. That would be a horrible use of resources 

While I agree and Jerry probably feels the same...that 14M most likely isn't going to be spent on anything else. 

1 hour ago, 46DidIt said:

Maybe one of the teams that have been getting worse production out of first base.

As I said yesterday there were 36 people who played significant amount of 1B this year and got 400 PAs.  The White Sox were represented at #31 and #35 in that list.  Seeing as Sheets was actually tied with Ty France at -0.9 fWAR , who actually split time with two different teams which means his failure wasn't concentrated in one team, unlike Sheets and Vaughn.

49 minutes ago, Tony said:

While I agree and Jerry probably feels the same...that 14M most likely isn't going to be spent on anything else. 

Like I said before, if we are going to penny pinch, these are the places to do it, and not shoving Benny into a Crochet deal to save that same money.

1 hour ago, 46DidIt said:

Well just off the top of my head the Tigers and Yankees are running out worse in playoff games

Of the 6 teams with worse WAR than the Sox at 1B in 2024, only 3 were more than .2 WAR worse. NYY, Hou, and the Reds. Even with Tork struggling, Det was better. Cincy and Miami *might* look at Vaughn and think he's an upgrade, but we are still talking about bottom of the barrel production at 1B.

56 minutes ago, Tony said:

While I agree and Jerry probably feels the same...that 14M most likely isn't going to be spent on anything else. 

Like @southsider2k5 said, we can spend that $14M on not bundling Benintendi with Crochet to reduce our return

2 hours ago, T R U said:

Well, his career .725 OPS is why I am saying a best case scenario is he can be somewhere between .750 - .800 next season for the first half and we can maybe get something usable for him. I don't expect it, and I understand hes not good. There is no reason not to roll the dice on that though because hes not blocking anyone and our payroll is insignificant for next season.

Hard not to laugh at this.  How many posts are there with Kopech with the same thing?  It made the team worse and will for 2025.

Trade is a bad word for Sox fans.

10 hours ago, Frank the Tank 35 said:

Vaughn is the type of player the Sox should be targeting during the rebuild: former top prospect with a high pedigree from a failed organizational development program. This would, of course, presume that we would have the capability to fix said post-hype player which we have shown minimal ability to do in the past. If this off-season's staff overhaul includes a monumental investment in analytics and coaches that can apply that, then we might be onto something. Critically, it's our only path forward out of this morass that should bring any reasonable Sox fan hope. However, neither bringing in a placeholder journeyman nor a high priced FA makes sense at this stage of the "rebuild."

To add to this line of reasoning 

This arguably should be his first or second year at the MLB level. He's possibly behind the developmental curve and could catch up. 

Still I think I want another team's Andrew Vaughn. I have too much scar tissue from watching this one. 

3 hours ago, Boopa1219 said:

Can’t imagine spending $14M on Vaughn, Sheets and Lopez. That would be a horrible use of resources 

Now imagine if the team had a minimum total salary they needed to hit. These guys would be getting raises. 

3 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Now imagine if the team had a minimum total salary they needed to hit. These guys would be getting raises. 

That's not how this has worked in sports with floors. 

4 hours ago, 46DidIt said:

Maybe one of the teams that have been getting worse production out of first base.

Of qualifying first basemen with at least 3.1 plate appearances per game, only Ty France put up a lower OPS than Vaughn.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/player/_/season/2024/seasontype/2/position/1b/table/batting/sort/OPS/dir/desc

Vaughn is also ranked 37th among all first basemen (including non-qualifying) in WAR with 0.2.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/player/_/season/2024/seasontype/2/position/1b/table/batting/sort/WARBR/dir/desc

Quite frankly, Vaughn is one of the worst starting first basemen in the MLB and shouldn’t even be starting at 1B for any team based on his performance.

Edited October 3, 20241 yr by WhiteSox2023

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

That's not how this has worked in sports with floors. 

You forget we're talking about the Sox. 😜 

 

1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Of qualifying first basemen with at least 3.1 plate appearances per game, only Ty France put up a lower OPS than Vaughn.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/player/_/season/2024/seasontype/2/position/1b/table/batting/sort/OPS/dir/desc

Vaughn is also ranked 37th among all first basemen (including non-qualifying) in WAR with 0.2.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/player/_/season/2024/seasontype/2/position/1b/table/batting/sort/WARBR/dir/desc

Quite frankly, Vaughn is one of the worst starting first basemen in the MLB and shouldn’t even be starting at 1B for any team based on his performance.

The Tigers have Torkelson in their lineup with a .662 OPs and the Yanks have Rizzo at .637

18 minutes ago, 46DidIt said:

The Tigers have Torkelson in their lineup with a .662 OPs and the Yanks have Rizzo at .637

Sure.  But they also play defense better than Vaughn.

44 minutes ago, 46DidIt said:

The Tigers have Torkelson in their lineup with a .662 OPs and the Yanks have Rizzo at .637

Both were about the same as Vaughn in WAR because of how bad Vaughn’s defense is.  Neither team is going to “upgrade” to Vaughn from those guys.  Definitely not the Yankees.  It would be a lateral move.

Vaughn has next to zero value.  He’s a 1B that hits like a 2B and plays defense like a DH.

Edited October 3, 20241 yr by WhiteSox2023

Neither the money nor the playing time is really consequential in Vaughn's case. Bring him back or don't, the $3-6M won't matter and neither will his ABs both in terms of adding value (wins) or blocking anyone's development. Next year is all about getting our young arms reps and developing (or trading) for some positional prospect depth. That's probably true for 2026 too. We need a few years of good drafts, a decent trade or two and a hell of a lot of good luck to even entertin the idea of being less than mediocre (sub .500) in 2026. The lack of positional prosect depth has probably already put us into a second rebuild feedback loop where we'll be forced to trade our pitching assets to restart the rebuid after 2026 in the hope of developing a realistic rebuild plan that puts us on a path of respectability by the end of the decade. 

I still hate giving up Vaughn for nothing, when we have no one ready to step in.  This season, Benintendi, Lopez, and Vaughn all got off to horrible starts.  They couldn't buy a hit.  Add in Maldonado and the tres amigos who all got hurt early again, and they had no chance. Now, if both Benintendi and Vaughn start next season better, they might win a few games and keep things interesting.  That's my pipe dream.