3 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

It's really logic but that is overlooked in baseball and other sports.

A guy who works every 5th day vs, people who play a lot more games.

It would not be wise to trade a stud pitcher for more pitchers who are not proven but more as a budget move.

Oh for a farm system that can produce both.

Amazed what some teams pay for an "over the hill based on age" pitcher on they way to the Hall if they can get one season out of them.  

Having a stud pitcher who can give you 7 innings every 5th day is invaluable. He gives the bullpen a break. Gives your team a chance to win every 5th day. Much more meaningful in the playoffs. 

Yes, a starting position player who produces, both defensively and offensively, is worth more. I'd argue that Miguel Vargas doesn't have more value than Christopher Sanchez. 

9 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Having a stud pitcher who can give you 7 innings every 5th day is invaluable. He gives the bullpen a break. Gives your team a chance to win every 5th day. Much more meaningful in the playoffs. 

Yes, a starting position player who produces, both defensively and offensively, is worth more. I'd argue that Miguel Vargas doesn't have more value than Christopher Sanchez. 

you still have to get there....but having a stud pitcher out with the TJ virus is gonna cost you at least 10 games and no postseason, you still need a healthy offense and a starter who can do the job

 Hopefully the habit of relying on a pen more than a starter goes away.  Pens are often inconsistent. 

A Crochet was the difference between staying home and then there's the Pirates.

Think of some of these older Sox teams would have been great in a post season short series but lacked a lot of everything else.   

1 hour ago, kitekrazy said:

It's really logic but that is overlooked in baseball and other sports.

A guy who works every 5th day vs, people who play a lot more games.

It would not be wise to trade a stud pitcher for more pitchers who are not proven but more as a budget move.

Oh for a farm system that can produce both.

Amazed what some teams pay for an "over the hill based on age" pitcher on they way to the Hall if they can get one season out of them.  

That overlooks like a hitter gets to hit once every nine team ABs, while a starting pitcher throws to all nine of them when they are in.  Garrett Crochet was 2nd in MLB with 814 batters faced.  Looking quickly the leading batters had about 700 PAs.

Good time to bump this back.

Crochet out there doing crochet things. 6 IP, 3 hits, 8k's.

Chase hit a first inning homer but had a world series celebration so we'll give him some bonus points.

Montgomery is the most polarizing prospect in MLB. I still say the entire trade comes down to him. You can't just get Teel and utiliedroth for Crochet.

11 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Good time to bump this back.

Crochet out there doing crochet things. 6 IP, 3 hits, 8k's.

Chase hit a first inning homer but had a world series celebration so we'll give him some bonus points.

Montgomery is the most polarizing prospect in MLB. I still say the entire trade comes down to him. You can't just get Teel and utiliedroth for Crochet.

Solid work.

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Good time to bump this back.

Crochet out there doing crochet things. 6 IP, 3 hits, 8k's.

Chase hit a first inning homer but had a world series celebration so we'll give him some bonus points.

Montgomery is the most polarizing prospect in MLB. I still say the entire trade comes down to him. You can't just get Teel and utiliedroth for Crochet.

Only 80 pitches as well.

Edited March 27Mar 27 by WhiteSox2023

hall of fame trajectory. real fun guy to watch pitch.

4 minutes ago, nrockway said:

hall of fame trajectory. real fun guy to watch pitch.

At this point, even Winkelman González needs to turn into a quality reliever or backend starter to make it a decent trade. 🤣

Edited March 27Mar 27 by WhiteSox2023

5 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

At this point, even Winkelman González needs to turn into a quality reliever or backend starter to make it a decent trade. 🤣

Still like what we got all around. Kristian Campbell and Marcelo Mayer were the guys I liked from the Red Sox, thought Teel was redundant, thought we could've drafted B Montgomery instead of Smith. Turns out Mayer and Campbell are kinda bums and Montgomery I think will be a very good big leaguer. 4 players who look like actual major leaguers, two of whom might be all-stars, seems like as good of value as you could expect.

That being said, I would've been very happy to extend Crochet to a giant contract. He's so good. Tigers almost certainly won't extend Skubal and get nothing in exchange, but that would've been a very fun battle to watch over the next 5 or so years.

6 minutes ago, nrockway said:

Still like what we got all around. Kristian Campbell and Marcelo Mayer were the guys I liked from the Red Sox, thought Teel was redundant, thought we could've drafted B Montgomery instead of Smith. Turns out Mayer and Campbell are kinda bums and Montgomery I think will be a very good big leaguer. 4 players who look like actual major leaguers, two of whom might be all-stars, seems like as good of value as you could expect.

That being said, I would've been very happy to extend Crochet to a giant contract. He's so good. Tigers almost certainly won't extend Skubal and get nothing in exchange, but that would've been a very fun battle to watch over the next 5 or so years.

With hindsight, at this point, Roman Anthony shouldn’t have been out of the discussion. Oh well, it is what it is.

8 minutes ago, nrockway said:

Still like what we got all around. Kristian Campbell and Marcelo Mayer were the guys I liked from the Red Sox, thought Teel was redundant, thought we could've drafted B Montgomery instead of Smith. Turns out Mayer and Campbell are kinda bums and Montgomery I think will be a very good big leaguer. 4 players who look like actual major leaguers, two of whom might be all-stars, seems like as good of value as you could expect.

That being said, I would've been very happy to extend Crochet to a giant contract. He's so good. Tigers almost certainly won't extend Skubal and get nothing in exchange, but that would've been a very fun battle to watch over the next 5 or so years.

Mayer may not be a bum. He was hurt for a lot of his rookie season. He has won the starting 2nd base position this spring and had a very productive first game. Way too early to label him a bum. We shall see how he does this year

As a big sport fan you see a lot of really amazing talent but you very rarely see excellence. In my life on teams I root for it's been probably like MJ, Megatron and Barry, Derrick for a short time, and then like Sale and Garrett and MB and Frank.

I really appreciate Sale and Garrett, even if ultimately the franchise wasn't able to do anything to capitalize on their talents. Same with my poor Lions superstars. If anything it might amplify their excellence to have come out of such horrific environments.

He's been awful his last two starts. His fastball velocity is down a couple ticks. Gotta wonder if he's thrown his best innings given he's already had TJS.

10 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

He's been awful his last two starts. His fastball velocity is down a couple ticks. Gotta wonder if he's thrown his best innings given he's already had TJS.

His health was always going to be the biggest argument against a big extension. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

His fastball speed has definitely dropped off, and he has moved off of his primary fastball in favor of a sinker.

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

His health was always going to be the biggest argument against a big extension. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

His fastball speed has definitely dropped off, and he has moved off of his primary fastball in favor of a sinker.

His Velo was fine yesterday. He had one start where it dipped (Twins start where he got crushed), but he said no injury. Probably just a dead arm.

That start going to hurt his numbers for a bit, but I'm sure he'll get it back in line. Zero doubts from me.

The sinker usage is a little inflated. I have his pitch mix very similar to last year.

Edited April 20Apr 20 by Look at Ray Ray Run

24 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

His health was always going to be the biggest argument against a big extension. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

His fastball speed has definitely dropped off, and he has moved off of his primary fastball in favor of a sinker.

His arm angle has lowered from 35 last year to around 30 now, and it's apparently had cascading effects on how his stuff plays. Less deception, worse control, and his sweeper has gone from one of the best pitches in the game to his worst offering. He's missing in the zone too much and guys aren't whiffing on the mistakes when they are in favorable counts and can narrow down what's coming.

After the Twins start he said it wasn't health and thought he maybe needed to change the fastball mix. After the most recent start, he said he feels like he knows what the fix is but didn't specify.

Hope he figures it out, love watching him when he's on. But another bad start and an IL stint wouldn't surprise me, even if it's a phantom one.

He's already reached his average HBP from the last two years

Update time:

An Update trending in the Sox favor two times in a row. Nice! Garrett's injury seems more serious than they thought, so he's out quite a bit longer.

He's at 6.1 WAR since the trade.

Meidroth - 2.7 WAR
Montgomery - .3 WAR
Teel - 1.9 WAR

Total WAR: 4.9

I still think this trade comes down to Montgomery. Teel is going to be a starting catcher in the big leagues, and probably a pretty good one. Meidroth is a utility guy in the long run. If Montgomery can be an average to + MLB outfielder, this trade works out for both teams assuming Garrett comes back healthy.

23 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Update time:

An Update trending in the Sox favor two times in a row. Nice! Garrett's injury seems more serious than they thought, so he's out quite a bit longer.

He's at 6.1 WAR since the trade.

Meidroth - 2.7 WAR
Montgomery - .3 WAR
Teel - 1.9 WAR

Total WAR: 4.9

I still think this trade comes down to Montgomery. Teel is going to be a starting catcher in the big leagues, and probably a pretty good one. Meidroth is a utility guy in the long run. If Montgomery can be an average to + MLB outfielder, this trade works out for both teams assuming Garrett comes back healthy.

Now do surplus value which only help our side of the equation.

Now it’s going back in the other direction if Crochet comes back and helps lead Boston to the playoffs…

Just Braden and Meidroth for Crochet suddenly looks quite different, especially if Quero can’t get his head out of his ass the remainder of the season.

This trade would still look better if they could invest the Crochet savings (not signing him long term) into Murakami or Vargas.

4 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Now it’s going back in the other direction if Crochet comes back and helps lead Boston to the playoffs…

Just Braden and Meidroth for Crochet suddenly looks quite different, especially if Quero can’t get his head out of his ass the remainder of the season.

This trade would still look better if they could invest the Crochet savings (not signing him long term) into Murakami or Vargas.

Did Teel die?

Luis Robert is still technically alive

18 minutes ago, PaleAleSox said:

Did Teel die?

Three major injuries in one year leaves the team with tremendous uncertainty...when Teel/Quero was promoted as a niche advantage over the rest of the league a year ago, albeit an ongoing challenge to get both of them enough playing time.

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Three major injuries in one year leaves the team with tremendous uncertainty...when Teel/Quero was promoted as a niche advantage over the rest of the league a year ago, albeit an ongoing challenge to get both of them enough playing time.

But Crochet has been hurt and he doesn’t get knocked for that? Interesting.

5 minutes ago, PaleAleSox said:

But Crochet has been hurt and he doesn’t get knocked for that? Interesting.

"Right now, Crochet isn't healthy enough.
Sitting at a table in the back corner of Loco Taqueira after celebrating his personalized Sam Adams-sponsored "Crochet Pale Ale," the pitcher explained how he is "just hammering rotator cuff" exercises, trying to strengthen the areas in and around the shoulder area. As for when he will be getting the go-ahead to actually start throwing again, that still remains to be seen.

"To be honest, I'm not sure just because I'm not there yet," he explained when asked what would be turning point to allow for actual throwing. "You know, we're having conversations every week and evaluations about probably every seven to 10 days, just kind of checking our work and making sure that we're still trending in the right direction. And we've been going that way for a while now. Since stopping plyos, especially, I feel like I've seen drastic gains. But as far as what makes you ready ... I mean, I'm not an athletic trainer, so I don't really know."

Bradfo also confirmed on twitter his 120 day left arm injury clause in his contract that turns his player option into a club option in 2032 is in play for his injuries.