Offense non-development...

[Lip Man 1]

Solid story asking about the offensive side of the organization and the issues:

https://www.southsidesox.com/2025/4/14/24407840/lack-of-offensive-progress-a-growing-indictment-of-chicago-white-sox-gm-chris-getz-record

[bmags]

One thing that's been kind of amazing is how for like most of my baseball life there's been one kinda random plus offensive season or relevant hot streak. Thinking of getting a Elvis Andrus putting up 9 home runs and 2 wins in like 40 games. The Trayce Thompson year, Palkamania, Yerminator, Avisail Garcia in 2017, McCann. Hell, Brian Goodwin's first half of 2021. Leury 2021.

That stuff is random, unsustainable, but always kinda happens. And it has just straight up not been happening since 2022. Now, of stars, of course Robert had 2023. Benintendi had a few months.

But to cycle through so many marginal guys and not accidentally catch a hot streak is so wild. The year is young, maybe Meidroth is the rando. but it's been the thing that has stood out to me for how astonishingly bad we have been offensively. Like, normally even bad teams you look at and are like "hey billy butler had a decent year actually"

[southsider2k5]

8 minutes ago, bmags said:

One thing that's been kind of amazing is how for like most of my baseball life there's been one kinda random plus offensive season or relevant hot streak. Thinking of getting a Elvis Andrus putting up 9 home runs and 2 wins in like 40 games. The Trayce Thompson year, Palkamania, Yerminator, Avisail Garcia in 2017, McCann. Hell, Brian Goodwin's first half of 2021. Leury 2021.

That stuff is random, unsustainable, but always kinda happens. And it has just straight up not been happening since 2022. Now, of stars, of course Robert had 2023. Benintendi had a few months.

But to cycle through so many marginal guys and not accidentally catch a hot streak is so wild. The year is young, maybe Meidroth is the rando. but it's been the thing that has stood out to me for how astonishingly bad we have been offensively. Like, normally even bad teams you look at and are like "hey billy butler had a decent year actually"

Some of it is random, but more and more I have become convinced that a decent amount of it is putting the right resources into the right things.  There is a reason that gaps exist, and that they don't seem to change much year to year.  Randomness would mean each team should cycle through good and bad times, and not see some stuck at the top, and others at the bottom.  If things were getting better internally here, after a year and a half we should be seeing something.

[Quin]

10 minutes ago, bmags said:

One thing that's been kind of amazing is how for like most of my baseball life there's been one kinda random plus offensive season or relevant hot streak. Thinking of getting a Elvis Andrus putting up 9 home runs and 2 wins in like 40 games. The Trayce Thompson year, Palkamania, Yerminator, Avisail Garcia in 2017, McCann. Hell, Brian Goodwin's first half of 2021. Leury 2021.

That stuff is random, unsustainable, but always kinda happens. And it has just straight up not been happening since 2022. Now, of stars, of course Robert had 2023. Benintendi had a few months.

But to cycle through so many marginal guys and not accidentally catch a hot streak is so wild. The year is young, maybe Meidroth is the rando. but it's been the thing that has stood out to me for how astonishingly bad we have been offensively. Like, normally even bad teams you look at and are like "hey billy butler had a decent year actually"

Wow, I can't believe you missed that one week of the GOAT Tommy Pham.

[bmags]

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Some of it is random, but more and more I have become convinced that a decent amount of it is putting the right resources into the right things.  There is a reason that gaps exist, and that they don't seem to change much year to year.  Randomness would mean each team should cycle through good and bad times, and not see some stuck at the top, and others at the bottom.  If things were getting better internally here, after a year and a half we should be seeing something.

Yeah I guess though some of it is also how bad both scouting and our pd/advanced scouting/etc is together. While I think a good amount of it is luck when Brian Goodwin randomly has an .850 OPS to get you through, some of it isn't. I mean had they kept on to Kevin Pillar I would not have my little anecdote here. But it just comes across that they know they want to change but don't actually know what they are doing.

[WestEddy]

42 minutes ago, bmags said:

One thing that's been kind of amazing is how for like most of my baseball life there's been one kinda random plus offensive season or relevant hot streak. Thinking of getting a Elvis Andrus putting up 9 home runs and 2 wins in like 40 games. The Trayce Thompson year, Palkamania, Yerminator, Avisail Garcia in 2017, McCann. Hell, Brian Goodwin's first half of 2021. Leury 2021.

That stuff is random, unsustainable, but always kinda happens. And it has just straight up not been happening since 2022. Now, of stars, of course Robert had 2023. Benintendi had a few months.

But to cycle through so many marginal guys and not accidentally catch a hot streak is so wild. The year is young, maybe Meidroth is the rando. but it's been the thing that has stood out to me for how astonishingly bad we have been offensively. Like, normally even bad teams you look at and are like "hey billy butler had a decent year actually"

Lenyn Sosa put up a .964 OPS last September. 

[The Grinder]

Give it a llck and a promise. It's the White Sox way

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

Lenyn Sosa put up a .964 OPS last September. 

Vaughn actually has had several very hot streaks surrounded by equally very cold streaks.

But more to the point it would happen more maybe if you were able to just sign non tendered guys. Schwarber was non tendered by the Cubs and he hit a massive amount of bombs since. Sox don't even have the resources to sign anyone for over $5M.

They do hit on pitching.  Fedde was a good signing. Rodon was a great $3M signing until he ran out of gas. Perez so far has been great. Crochet went from a relief pitcher recovering from injury to elite starting pitcher when almost no one, including me , thought he could stay healthy enough or pitch enough innings to achieve what he did. Crochet put in the off season work. They monitored him liked what they saw ,changed their plan for him and according to Bannister,  Getz gave the thumbs up for Crochet to start. After that they worked on a few changes to his 2 seamer, introduced the cutter as opposed to  his sweeper. Crochet kept pushing through every barrier.

There's hope for Shane Smith and Vasil also.

Edited Monday at 07:01 PM by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[waltwilliams]

Fun fact: Tim Anderson was the last home-grown (drafted and developed) Sox position player to make the All-Star team in 2021 and 2022.

The last home-grown position player to make the All-Star team before TA was Joe Crede in 2008! And he was drafted almost 30 years ago ('96)

[southsider2k5]

44 minutes ago, waltwilliams said:

Fun fact: Tim Anderson was the last home-grown (drafted and developed) Sox position player to make the All-Star team in 2021 and 2022.

The last home-grown position player to make the All-Star team before TA was Joe Crede in 2008! And he was drafted almost 30 years ago ('96)

So while who takes credit for Garrett Crochet rages on these pages, the attempt to also simultaneously take absolutely zero credit for this position player record from the same staff is just astounding.  You don't only get credit for the good things.

[WestEddy]

Here's an informative story that explores the changes the White Sox have been implementing over the winter, and how they're working. 

https://soxmachine.com/2025/04/the-white-sox-are-chasing-a-more-disciplined-offense

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

25 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

So while who takes credit for Garrett Crochet rages on these pages, the attempt to also simultaneously take absolutely zero credit for this position player record from the same staff is just astounding.  You don't only get credit for the good things.

There's plenty of credit to go around .There's no need to be stingy with credit. The player, the coaches and executives all play a part in good and bad things. Pretty simple stuff actually. Hardly controversial.

[Tony]

3 hours ago, bmags said:

Yeah I guess though some of it is also how bad both scouting and our pd/advanced scouting/etc is together. While I think a good amount of it is luck when Brian Goodwin randomly has an .850 OPS to get you through, some of it isn't. I mean had they kept on to Kevin Pillar I would not have my little anecdote here. But it just comes across that they know they want to change but don't actually know what they are doing.

Over the 15 years or so, how many players have come here and gotten worse? Certainly that number is higher than the players that have come here and gotten better. 

Some of that of course has to do with age, but we've seen it far too often with the White Sox. Some random guys that come to mind:

-Adam Dunn

-Jeff Samardzija

-Adam LaRoche 

-Todd Frazier

-James Shields

-Derek Holland

-Ceasar Hernandez

-AJ Pollock

I could go on, but that took me about 3 minutes to think about. And it absolutely has to do with how these guys are prepared, coached, what they are doing that other teams aren't. And sure, there have been success stories too. But certainly not as many. 

[chitownsportsfan]

13 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

There's plenty of credit to go around .There's no need to be stingy with credit. The player, the coaches and executives all play a part in good and bad things. Pretty simple stuff actually. Hardly controversial.

Yea, credit everybody involved in the WORST SEASON OF ALL TIME! Getz glazers are a wild bunch. Thankfully we only have 2 left.

[Tony]

17 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Here's an informative story that explores the changes the White Sox have been implementing over the winter, and how they're working. 

https://soxmachine.com/2025/04/the-white-sox-are-chasing-a-more-disciplined-offense

This is a good thing, and we'll see if it lasts into the dog days of August. But it's a smart, sound approach, and one we should all hope continues. Everyone, including Getz, knows they are only going to get so far with the talent currently on the roster (which is not very far at all) but if the same approach is used when there is more talent, hopefully we see the results in the W-L column. 

The hard part is finding the talent. We'll see if Getz is up to the task. 

[Fielder Jones]

a sign of data being insurmountable in baseball.. Andrus had that great year with us, but the data never believed any of it, and he couldnt get a contract anywhere

[southsider2k5]

34 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Here's an informative story that explores the changes the White Sox have been implementing over the winter, and how they're working. 

https://soxmachine.com/2025/04/the-white-sox-are-chasing-a-more-disciplined-offense

And here is the same Chris Getz story from 2020.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/1566148/2020/01/28/what-the-white-soxs-next-stage-of-player-development-looks-like/

[WhiteSox2023]

23 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Yea, credit everybody involved in the WORST SEASON OF ALL TIME! Getz glazers are a wild bunch. Thankfully we only have 2 left.

Getz glazers?  🤣

[chitownsportsfan]

7 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Getz glazers?  🤣

They lay it on thick. Like Buddy's pizza.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

15 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Yea, credit everybody involved in the WORST SEASON OF ALL TIME! Getz glazers are a wild bunch. Thankfully we only have 2 left.

Why so angry that people try to be fair. Good things are happening despite that horrific season . There's more than 2 people who recognize that.

Why can't we recognize the good things too ? There's plenty of you around to point out his fault because he has faults and has made mistakes. No ones ever said he's perfect.  He got a lot of quality to join the organization and doing their best to modernize. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Relax , I see you starting "And That's a White Sox Winner"  thread. You aren't all doom and gloom.

 

[WhiteSox2023]

8 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

They lay it on thick. Like Buddy's pizza.

Beggar’s Pizza, but point taken.

[chitownsportsfan]

6 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Why so angry that people try to be fair. Good things are happening despite that horrific season . There's more than 2 people who recognize that.

Why can't we recognize the good things too ? There's plenty of you around to point out his fault because he has faults and has made mistakes. No ones ever said he's perfect.  He got a lot of quality to join the organization and doing their best to modernize. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Relax , I see you starting "And That's a White Sox Winner"  thread. You aren't all doom and gloom.

 

I just think it's a little over the top to focus on a single data point or a few when the overwhelming evidence is that Getz is not good at his job. Maybe he'll improve, maybe he won't, but at this point in time I think it's a STRETCH STRETCH GET ON BACK THERE to say the org is pointed in the right direction overall.

[caulfield12]

35 minutes ago, Tony said:

Over the 15 years or so, how many players have come here and gotten worse? Certainly that number is higher than the players that have come here and gotten better. 

Some of that of course has to do with age, but we've seen it far too often with the White Sox. Some random guys that come to mind:

-Adam Dunn

-Jeff Samardzija

-Adam LaRoche 

-Todd Frazier

-James Shields

-Derek Holland

-Ceasar Hernandez

-AJ Pollock

I could go on, but that took me about 3 minutes to think about. And it absolutely has to do with how these guys are prepared, coached, what they are doing that other teams aren't. And sure, there have been success stories too. But certainly not as many. 

Nick Swisher and Melky Cabrera

There's a lot of guys who were at the end of the line though, like Jay, Alonso and Encarnacion.

This the same organization that is having a 2008 Ken Griffey Jr. Bobblehead, after all.

Edited Monday at 09:04 PM by caulfield12

[Quin]

7 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Beggar’s Pizza, but point taken.

With the new budget, they can't afford Beggar's anymore.

[southsider2k5]

33 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Yea, credit everybody involved in the WORST SEASON OF ALL TIME! Getz glazers are a wild bunch. Thankfully we only have 2 left.

Nah, shut up and in get the gratitude line for all of the great things they have done for us Sox fans the last few years.  SHUT UP AND BE HAPPY RIGHT NOW!