White Sox to get Montgomery back to Charlotte (late) next week, still eyeing majors (Janish)

[caulfield12]

https://www.mlb.com/news/white-sox-express-confidence-in-prospect-colson-montgomery

“The intimate environment we can create here in Arizona,” Janish said of the benefits for Montgomery's reset. “Fuller is down here with him, working the last couple of days, and then will for the next few days, as well. Just give him a chance to get back to neutral is a good way to say it, and really allow him to take a breather. To be clear, the intention is to get him back out to Charlotte sooner than later for sure.

“The response from Colson was pretty mature. He hadn’t performed the way he knows that he can. This is an effort to remove him from the environment briefly and reinsert him hopefully this coming week and give him a little bit of a fresh start with going all the way down to the daily routine and just getting him into the mindset of just competing every night.

“Just grinding out four really, really tough at-bats every single night, making the pitcher miserable,” Janish added. “Using his skillset he’s really good at, which is controlling the zone. That’s the philosophy behind it.”

 

He’s going through regular daily work at Camelback Ranch in Glendale, Ariz., in terms of taking ground balls, lifting weights and continuing the workload from a running standpoint, but he’s also doing extensive cage work with White Sox director of hitting Ryan Fuller.

“It’s not necessarily about having success in Charlotte. It’s about getting him into a position where he’s confident and comfortable enough to compete at some point this year, he’ll go to the Major League level,” White Sox director of player development Paul Janish said during a Zoom prior to Chicago's 8-3loss to the Astros on Saturday at Rate Field. “That’s what this is about, right? We still have a great deal of belief in Colson.”

 

Edited May 4 by caulfield12

[SoCalChiSox]

I'm glad he is getting alot of one on one time with Fuller. He's certainly helped with swing decisions with the MLB club.

 

[caulfield12]

13 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

I'm glad he is getting alot of one on one time with Fuller. He's certainly helped with swing decisions with the MLB club.

 

There will certainly be a lot of skeptics waiting to see what impact Ryan Fuller's Camp Colson AZ Version will have...and obviously you have to feel for him even more if he's really not feeling close to 100% physically, but is just trying to prove his toughness.

You want to be optimistic for the kid.  Definitely.

And "articles" coming out like the Osik Chronicles make you even more furious they won't (yet) move on from Andrew Vaughn, when so many since-departed Sox players have been rapidly cast aside as villains, egocentric fools and malingerers.

Edited May 4 by caulfield12

[hi8is]

Cool - it’s s%*# or get off the pot time for him soon. Bring Colson up. Send Vaughn down for Elko.

You also at some point need to wonder if this organizational approach of being selective has been too extreme where it’s getting into too many players heads… and effectively is “taking the bat out of their hands”.

Might soon be time to reconsider the approach as a whole and start telling people to just fucking mash.

[Timmy U]

38 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Cool - it’s s%*# or get off the pot time for him soon. Bring Colson up. Send Vaughn down for Elko.

You also at some point need to wonder if this organizational approach of being selective has been too extreme where it’s getting into too many players heads… and effectively is “taking the bat out of their hands”.

Might soon be time to reconsider the approach as a whole and start telling people to just fucking mash.

Colson's issue this year is he is swinging out of the zone way too much. His O-zone swing rate has exploded for some reason, but he's taking more pitches in the zone. Might be cheating for the fastball too much.  You don't get a 42% K rate cuz you're swinging at strikes.

[hi8is]

2 hours ago, Timmy U said:

Colson's issue this year is he is swinging out of the zone way too much. His O-zone swing rate has exploded for some reason, but he's taking more pitches in the zone. Might be cheating for the fastball too much.  You don't get a 42% K rate cuz you're swinging at strikes.

Crazy s%*#.

[TaylorStSox]

5 hours ago, hi8is said:

Cool - it’s s%*# or get off the pot time for him soon. Bring Colson up. Send Vaughn down for Elko.

You also at some point need to wonder if this organizational approach of being selective has been too extreme where it’s getting into too many players heads… and effectively is “taking the bat out of their hands”.

Might soon be time to reconsider the approach as a whole and start telling people to just fucking mash.

Elko has averaged around 2 years older than league average throughout his career. Montgomery has averaged around 4 years younger than average. Yet it's time for Colson to "get off the pot?"

[Dick Allen]

If your top offensive prospect is sent to the spring training facility because of struggling, you can spin it all you want, it’s a bit of a problem .i still hope his issues are fixable, because if he can’t hit good gas without cheating, he’s screwed these days.

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, TaylorStSox said:

Elko has averaged around 2 years older than league average throughout his career. Montgomery has averaged around 4 years younger than average. Yet it's time for Colson to "get off the pot?"

Right!? Sox fans crack me up. I've been as hard on Colson as anyone, but "s%*# or get off the pot" time is at least two years away. Dude just turned 23. And the rest of the fanbase is ready to anointp Tim Elko, who is the same age as AV, the savior of the franchise. 

[Tnetennba]

9 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Right!? Sox fans crack me up. I've been as hard on Colson as anyone, but "s%*# or get off the pot" time is at least two years away. Dude just turned 23. And the rest of the fanbase is ready to anointp Tim Elko, who is the same age as AV, the savior of the franchise. 

Hyperbolic much? No one is calling Elko the savior of anything. Wanting to move away from Vaughn and give Elko a shot when he's tearing up AAA is perfectly fair.

[WestEddy]

15 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Hyperbolic much? No one is calling Elko the savior of anything. Wanting to move away from Vaughn and give Elko a shot when he's tearing up AAA is perfectly fair.

I would call people yelling for players to be cut for a slow start to the season hyperbolic, but that's just me. 

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I would call people yelling for players to be cut for a slow start to the season hyperbolic, but that's just me. 

Not one.  

Not two.

Not three.

Not four.

Five.

[Chick Mercedes]

27 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Right!? Sox fans crack me up. I've been as hard on Colson as anyone, but "s%*# or get off the pot" time is at least two years away. Dude just turned 23. And the rest of the fanbase is ready to anointp Tim Elko, who is the same age as AV, the savior of the franchise. 

All I would say on his window, is that if he really is this all star type prospect, there’s not much more time to show it. If he’s just a guy Major League roster dude, then sure, he’s got a couple more years.

[WestEddy]

9 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:

All I would say on his window, is that if he really is this all star type prospect, there’s not much more time to show it. If he’s just a guy Major League roster dude, then sure, he’s got a couple more years.

I think we're building him up to be this perennial All-Star, foundational piece for the franchise, but I think if we get an average to a little better than average major leaguer out of a 22nd pick, that's productive. 

[caulfield12]

8 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I think we're building him up to be this perennial All-Star, foundational piece for the franchise, but I think if we get an average to a little better than average major leaguer out of a 22nd pick, that's productive. 

Not from where he was ranked as a prospect just two or even one year ago...basically, the best Sox infield prospect since Beckham and Moncada.

Maybe not can't miss...but #14-20 at one point, at his very peak.

Edited May 4 by caulfield12

[WestEddy]

13 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Not one.  

Not two.

Not three.

Not four.

Five.

I'm not sure if this is what you're referring to, but Vaughn has only started slowly in 2024 and 2025. He's had productive Aprils in his first 3 seasons. 

[caulfield12]

8 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I'm not sure if this is what you're referring to, but Vaughn has only started slowly in 2024 and 2025. He's had productive Aprils in his first 3 seasons. 

Probably referring to consecutive overall disappointing seasons from an fWAR/bWAR perspective.

By old school Greg775 traditional metrics...so so okay fine with RBIs and still a bit short with homers for a corner INF spot.

But then when you consider base running and fielding and OBP...no bueno.

[WestEddy]

10 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Not from where he was ranked as a prospect just two or even one year ago...

Writers who rank prospects are already issuing mea culpas for overrating him based on his first season in pro ball. I'm not sure why we have to hold him to the standard of a mistake. 

A much clearer measure would be to look at #22 picks in the draft. If they got 12-20 bWAR out of Monty in 6+ years of control, that would be pretty good return out of that slot. 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/draft/index.fcgi?overall_pick=22&draft_type=junreg&query_type=overall_pick&from_type_4y=0&from_type_unk=0&from_type_hs=0&from_type_jc=0

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Writers who rank prospects are already issuing mea culpas for overrating him based on his first season in pro ball. I'm not sure why we have to hold him to the standard of a mistake. 

A much clearer measure would be to look at #22 picks in the draft. If they got 12-20 bWAR out of Monty in 6+ years of control, that would be pretty good return out of that slot. 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/draft/index.fcgi?overall_pick=22&draft_type=junreg&query_type=overall_pick&from_type_4y=0&from_type_unk=0&from_type_hs=0&from_type_jc=0

Spin it all you want...perception is already baked into the pie at this point.

Savior/cornerstone of the franchise was pretty close to an accurate assessment two years ago.

 

Similarly, AJ Preller would look at where Ethan Salas is as of today offensively and express major but measured disappointment...and also patience for a much younger prospect.

[WestEddy]

23 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Probably referring to consecutive overall disappointing seasons from an fWAR/bWAR perspective.

By old school Greg775 traditional metrics...so so okay fine with RBIs and still a bit short with homers for a corner INF spot.

But then when you consider base running and fielding and OBP...no bueno.

Me: I would call people yelling for players to be cut for a slow start to the season hyperbolic, but that's just me.
SS2k5: Not one. Not two. Not three. Not four. Five.
You:  Probably referring to consecutive overall disappointing seasons from an fWAR/bWAR perspective.

You're wrong. Could you please just follow a conversation for once?

Edited May 4 by WestEddy

[caulfield12]

13 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Me: I would call people yelling for players to be cut for a slow start to the season hyperbolic, but that's just me.
SS2k5: Not one. Not two. Not three. Not four. Five.
You: 

Probably referring to consecutive overall disappointing seasons from an fWAR/bWAR perspective.

You're wrong. Could you please just follow a conversation or once?

Hot or on fire starts in April...when exactly was that?  Easy to look up.

The overall results are always inevitably the same.

Statistics always average out.

 

The last two years have been complete disasters.  Sub 500.

2022-23 his numbers were good.

Rookie year 2021 .725 start but defense in LF rapidly disentegrating...that obviously was Hahn's doing.

Edited May 4 by caulfield12

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, Tnetennba said:

Hyperbolic much? No one is calling Elko the savior of anything. Wanting to move away from Vaughn and give Elko a shot when he's tearing up AAA is perfectly fair.

Meh. Soxtalk is one small % of Sox fans. Plenty out there seem to think he's the savior without looking any further. 

Fwiw - I think Elko has earned a shot. I just don't think he'll be any good when gets it. 

[chitownsportsfan]

speaking of mistakes...wrong thread

Edited May 4 by chitownsportsfan

[WestEddy]

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Spin it all you want...perception is already baked into the pie at this point.

Savior/cornerstone of the franchise was pretty close to an accurate assessment two years ago.

 

Similarly, AJ Preller would look at where Ethan Salas is as of today offensively and express major but measured disappointment...and also patience for a much younger prospect.

The actual people who rank prospects are explaining that they overrated Montgomery a couple of years ago, and are adjusting their scouting reports accordingly. That's not spin. The actual spin is you looking for some imaginary measure of "Saviorhood" to proclaim Montgomery a "failed" pick or development story. If he turns into an average major leaguer, that would still be a win. Only eight #22 picks in the 60 years of the draft have put up 20+ bWAR in their careers. 

I have no idea where you're going with that AJ Preller bit. 

[WestEddy]

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

2022-23 his numbers were good.

Rookie year 2021 .725 start but defense in LF rapidly disentegrating...that obviously was Hahn's doing.

Yeah, that's what I said in the first place. He was productive, offensively, in his first 3 seasons.