Is “The 78” Dead? Or even more alive? Fire announce plans for SSS

[southsider2k5]

20 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said:

The economics of baseball have changed.  It looks to me like teams are finding that developing the land around a stadium is a much bigger money maker than surface parking lots.

I wonder how often the Sox actually fill up all of their parking lots.  Even at games with 35k+ in attendance, do the lots ever get full?  And even if the Sox had middle of the pack attendance, how many times a year would they actually need all those parking spaces?  It looks like other sports teams are redeveloping a good chunk of the surface lots around their stadiums.  The Mets and Phillies are the latest.  Heck, even in our own city, the Bulls and Blackhawks are spending billions to turn most of parking around the United Center into the "1901 Project".  

Whether the Sox move to the 78 or stay at 35th & Shields and redevelop much of the parking lots, I am sure there will be parking available for fans.  It just won't be dozens of acres of surface lots adjacent to the stadium.  

If you really NEED the parking, put up parking garages to more efficiently utilize the space, and build something useful on the rest.  If the Bears can do it, the Sox can do it with a fraction of the crowds.

[77 Hitmen]

11 hours ago, NO!!MARY!!! said:

Downer post, but true. Also recall that in 2012 they were in 1st place most of the season and didn’t even crack 2 million in attendance. I don’t see that ever changing, especially now. 

It'll be a long slog to win back market share in Chicago, that's for sure.  The new owners will have their work cut out for them (both on and off the field) and the Cubs aren't going anywhere as far as attracting fans goes.  

The one thing that irked me about the 2012 attendance numbers is that some of JR's mouthpieces went public with "attendance shaming" Sox fans for not supporting the team enough even when they won.  I'm thinking of Don Cooper, specifically.  Typical Reinsdorf PR blunder and "blame the fans" mindset that we've been dealing with since 1981. 

The next owners can start off by realizing the fans are NOT the problem.  Sox fans are as loyal and diehard as anyone.  As @WBWSF noted, making games affordable to families will help.  The good news is that the Ishbias have offered affordable concessions at Suns games.  Something like that would be a good start.  But IMO, they'll have to do more than just make the Sox a discount alternative to the Cubs if they want to be more than an afterthought in this city.

[WBWSF]

7 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said:

It'll be a long slog to win back market share in Chicago, that's for sure.  The new owners will have their work cut out for them (both on and off the field) and the Cubs aren't going anywhere as far as attracting fans goes.  

The one thing that irked me about the 2012 attendance numbers is that some of JR's mouthpieces went public with "attendance shaming" Sox fans for not supporting the team enough even when they won.  I'm thinking of Don Cooper, specifically.  Typical Reinsdorf PR blunder and "blame the fans" mindset that we've been dealing with since 1981. 

The next owners can start off by realizing the fans are NOT the problem.  Sox fans are as loyal and diehard as anyone.  As @WBWSF noted, making games affordable to families will help.  The good news is that the Ishbias have offered affordable concessions at Suns games.  Something like that would be a good start.  But IMO, they'll have to do more than just make the Sox a discount alternative to the Cubs if they want to be more than an afterthought in this city.

If the team remains at their present stadium I would hope the new owners would make every seat in the upper deck one low price. $15.00 for any seat in the upper deck sounds right to me. I'm told the Giants sell their upper deck tickets for most games  at $19.00.

[nrockway]

On 9/2/2025 at 10:49 AM, WBWSF said:

I would be surprised if they stayed at the present site. You can't fix the miserable upper deck that everybody has hated from year one. Not too many businesses are going to move into the parking lots. The area is not a popular location in the city. Besides, those parking lots are a real money maker for the owner.In addition most fans like the parking lots. Where else would you park?

Where would you park at the 78? The idea I imagine would be to build a multi-story parking garage in either scenario. Much better use of limited space. I wouldn't expect everyone to just take the train or walk. Surface lots are a bad idea for a variety of reasons (such as flooding, heat intensification) but primarily that the land is valuable and there's a reason you don't see a bunch of single family homes near the city core. Building up is profitable. Probably need to hire fewer employees to direct traffic. southsider2k5 beat me to this point apparently!

The area is reasonably popular. I think as stated, some actual feasibility study should be done. 77 Hitmen made the good point about how valuable land actually is around those parts.

Even if the lots get filled during the season, what are they doing the rest of the year? 

Edited September 5 by nrockway

[77 Hitmen]

22 hours ago, nrockway said:

Where would you park at the 78? The idea I imagine would be to build a multi-story parking garage in either scenario. Much better use of limited space. I wouldn't expect everyone to just take the train or walk. Surface lots are a bad idea for a variety of reasons (such as flooding, heat intensification) but primarily that the land is valuable and there's a reason you don't see a bunch of single family homes near the city core. Building up is profitable. Probably need to hire fewer employees to direct traffic. southsider2k5 beat me to this point apparently!

The area is reasonably popular. I think as stated, some actual feasibility study should be done. 77 Hitmen made the good point about how valuable land actually is around those parts.

Even if the lots get filled during the season, what are they doing the rest of the year? 

So many other franchises are moving away from stadiums surrounded by so much surface lots and they all seem to be doing just fine to the point where other franchises are rushing to follow suit.  I'm not sure what's so unique about the White Sox that we must have a stadium that is near mass transit lines and yet has to be surrounded by acres of surface lots.

The only MLB teams that come to mind to me that plan to stick with extensive surface lots around their ballpark are the two L.A. teams and Milwaukee.  But even with the Angels, there's a huge $4B entertainment district under construction within walking distance of Angel Stadium and surrounding the Honda Center (home of NHL Anaheim Ducks).  

 

Edited September 6 by 77 Hitmen

[WBWSF]

16 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said:

So many other franchises are moving away from stadiums surrounded by so much surface lots and they all seem to be doing just fine to the point where other franchises are rushing to follow suit.  I'm not sure what's so unique about the White Sox that we must have a stadium that is near mass transit lines and yet has to be surrounded by acres of surface lots.

The only MLB teams that come to mind to me that plan to stick with extensive surface lots around their ballpark are the two L.A. teams and Milwaukee.  But even with the Angels, there's a huge $4B entertainment district under construction within walking distance of Angel Stadium and surrounding the Honda Center (home of NHL Anaheim Ducks).  

 

Alot of White Sox fans drive in from the suburbs. They're not going to take the CTA to get to the rate.

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

Alot of White Sox fans drive in from the suburbs. They're not going to take the CTA to get to the rate.

Sox fans are smarter than this.  The Cubs draw a 3 million a year fan base with almost zero surface parking. 

[nrockway]

21 hours ago, WBWSF said:

Alot of White Sox fans drive in from the suburbs. They're not going to take the CTA to get to the rate.

Let's play "spot the parking lots". This is Truist Park in unincorporated Cobb County. Atlanta is entirely suburbs and the ballpark is no where close to downtown.

[nrockway]

10 minutes ago, nrockway said:

Let's play "spot the parking lots". This is Truist Park in unincorporated Cobb County. Atlanta is entirely suburbs and the ballpark is no where close to downtown.

The Rate for comparison. Spot the parking lots here!

It's just really bad design.

[tray]

22 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Sox fans are smarter than this.  The Cubs draw a 3 million a year fan base with almost zero surface parking. 

Weekday games on the Southside are mainly night games. Most WSox fans who attend games regularly are largely located in the suburbs. The prospect of putting their families on trains going through Chicago and returning late at night will be unacceptable to most of them for security and practical reasons.  Some fans who don't attend games, may not understand that Sox fans, like Bears fans, enjoy tailgating prior to games and then feel safe returning to their cars in a secure parking lot next to the park. Knowing anything about the culture of South side Sox fans is prerequisite to gaining an understanding of why access to the expressway and ample parking is an important part of what makes attending Sox games enjoyable for many of our fans.  And no, most fans don't need to drink any more post 11 p.m. after night games so no need for more bars  then there already is around the neighborhood.  

[southsider2k5]

23 minutes ago, tray said:

Weekday games on the Southside are mainly night games. Most WSox fans who attend games regularly are largely located in the suburbs. The prospect of putting their families on trains going through Chicago and returning late at night will be unacceptable to most of them for security and practical reasons.  Some fans who don't attend games, may not understand that Sox fans, like Bears fans, enjoy tailgating prior to games and then feel safe returning to their cars in a secure parking lot next to the park. Knowing anything about the culture of South side Sox fans is prerequisite to gaining an understanding of why access to the expressway and ample parking is an important part of what makes attending Sox games enjoyable for many of our fans.  And no, most fans don't need to drink any more post 11 p.m. after night games so no need for more bars  then there already is around the neighborhood.  

So explain to me Yankees and Mets fans, who again, can survive after dark without surface parking?  Sox fans are smart enough to adjust. 

[Sleepy Harold]

1 hour ago, tray said:

Weekday games on the Southside are mainly night games. Most WSox fans who attend games regularly are largely located in the suburbs. The prospect of putting their families on trains going through Chicago and returning late at night will be unacceptable to most of them for security and practical reasons.  Some fans who don't attend games, may not understand that Sox fans, like Bears fans, enjoy tailgating prior to games and then feel safe returning to their cars in a secure parking lot next to the park. Knowing anything about the culture of South side Sox fans is prerequisite to gaining an understanding of why access to the expressway and ample parking is an important part of what makes attending Sox games enjoyable for many of our fans.  And no, most fans don't need to drink any more post 11 p.m. after night games so no need for more bars  then there already is around the neighborhood.  

A great line from Joe Dirt that rings true, "It's not what you like, its the consumer." I think the reason tailgating is so popular is that there's literally nothing else to do in the area outside of trying to cram in Turtles or Cork. I know public transportation and trains apparently frighten you, but for probably the 100th time in this thread, plenty of people (myself included) have 0 issue utilizing them back to the burbs after games. Like most humans, Sox fans will adapt to less available parking in the future if a stadium at the 78 does eventually come to fruition. 

[JoeC]

Someone should invent a sort of building where you can park on a 2nd or 3rd floor.

[tray]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

So explain to me Yankees and Mets fans, who again, can survive after dark without surface parking?  Sox fans are smart enough to adjust. 

I'm laughing about Trump bringing troops into Chicago but no politics here so there is that. Beyond the security issue, which is substantial, a lot of fans are not going to want to park at a train stop, take a train, and return to that lot around midnight.  Some will, but a lot won't.  And a lot of fans have made tailgating a lifestyle. Trust me, you will see guys with all kinds of grills, coolers, and impressive spreads they lay out. It's a huge old fashioned Chicago block party if you were ever at one back in the day. We lived in St. Denis/ Ashburn and we kids loved them. So that tailgating thing has roots.

Re the 78  ...NO WAY Ishbia, a billionaire private equity investor, is ever going to sign a long term lease with the Iranian born convicted felon who owns the 78 lot, and at the same time, lose parking lot revenue and bank on suburban Sox fans to change their long standing habits, expose their families to security risks, and deal with untold inconveniences.  But the Sox relocating to the 78 is a moot point now and certainly will be in 5 years, especially after the Fire relocate there.  Look at the site plan with the Fire stadium there. Even without that stadium it becomes clear after studying that plan  that there is no access on Roosevelt (outside the ramp they propose going into a parking garage), none on Clark, and limited access otherwise, such as the one lane road through Ping Tom park.  Related Dev. is trying to scam the City of Chicago and Illinois taxpayers with TIF funding that only diverts tax revenue. Hey give Auchi taxpayer money so he can develop his property.  LMFAO.

 

Edited September 7 by tray

[tray]

"I know public transportation and trains apparently frighten you, but for probably the 100th time in this thread, plenty of people (myself included) have 0 issue utilizing them back to the burbs after games. Like most humans, Sox fans will adapt to less available parking in the future if a stadium at the 78 does eventually come to fruition. "

Good to know. 

[southsider2k5]

50 minutes ago, tray said:

I'm laughing about Trump bringing troops into Chicago but no politics here so there is that. Beyond the security issue, which is substantial, a lot of fans are not going to want to park at a train stop, take a train, and return to that lot around midnight.  Some will, but a lot won't.  And a lot of fans have made tailgating a lifestyle. Trust me, you will see guys with all kinds of grills, coolers, and impressive spreads they lay out. It's a huge old fashioned Chicago block party if you were ever at one back in the day. We lived in St. Denis/ Ashburn and we kids loved them. So that tailgating thing has roots.

Re the 78  ...NO WAY Ishbia, a billionaire private equity investor, is ever going to sign a long term lease with the Iranian born convicted felon who owns the 78 lot, and at the same time, lose parking lot revenue and bank on suburban Sox fans to change their long standing habits, expose their families to security risks, and deal with untold inconveniences.  But the Sox relocating to the 78 is a moot point now and certainly will be in 5 years, especially after the Fire relocate there.  Look at the site plan with the Fire stadium there. Even without that stadium it becomes clear after studying that plan  that there is no access on Roosevelt (outside the ramp they propose going into a parking garage), none on Clark, and limited access otherwise, such as the one lane road through Ping Tom park.  Related Dev. is trying to scam the City of Chicago and Illinois taxpayers with TIF funding that only diverts tax revenue. Hey give Auchi taxpayer money so he can develop his property.  LMFAO.

 

I am glad to finally admitted this outloud.  It's step one to getting past your fears.  Don't let your life be occupied by fear tropes.  The whole rest of the world is able to handle it being out in public in big scary cities, many way worse than Chicago. If Cubs fans can do it, so can you.

[nrockway]

Northern Illinois is probably the best place in the country outside of the Northeast to actually take the train to and from the city. Metra is very safe. Red line on game days/nights is safe (due to high ridership). If I lived in the burbs, I'd much rather take Metra/CTA to Sox games since I'm probably drinking and the lots are a clusterfuck. I'd question the intelligence and ethics of anyone who tailgates, drinks beer at the game, then drives home.

However, I think there are reasonable concerns about the L system since COVID and especially the red/green line which I ride pretty much daily. Smoking on the train is unchecked nowadays, there are no consequences. Crime is actually higher post-pandemic than it was before, peaking in 2024, here are some stats:

https://www.illinoispolicy.org/press-releases/chicago-faces-roughly-1-crime-every-3-hours-on-cta/#:~:text=CHICAGO (Dec.,October 2023 through September 2024.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/2023/12/29/rate-of-violent-crime-on-cta-trains-was-down-in-2023-but-still-higher-than-pre-pandemic-levels/

My perception of riding the train for the last 15ish years is that it feels less safe during non-peak hours and CTA employees are less-equipped to deal with it. CTA leadership is incompetent. Yesterday morning, I get on the front car (I only sit on the front car these days if I can help it) and some guy smoking a cigarette spits near me and tossed out his butt at my shoe. At the next stop, I move cars and some guy is smoking in there too. This is just common now. I was also assaulted pretty badly (concussion, could've been worse) on the red line around midnight and I won't ride it past 10pm anymore. I'll take the bus which is just fine and I think a lot of people have made this adjustment. 

Mind you, I think the L is the lifeblood of this city, the only tattoo I have is basically this, the loop detail, I care about its continued relevance in place of the automobile, but people's concerns are reasonable and the city needs to do better in improving safety. The CTA employees need to be better trained. Most of them are new.

That being said, I don't think it factors into Sox games since there are enough people riding it that crimes probably aren't going to happen. Riding during rush hour is fine although you might not get to sit down. Nonetheless, you can still have parking, you can just design it in a non-stupid way and use the rest of the land for something that's useful for the other 284 days a year that the Sox aren't playing. 

[Sleepy Harold]

1 hour ago, tray said:

"I know public transportation and trains apparently frighten you, but for probably the 100th time in this thread, plenty of people (myself included) have 0 issue utilizing them back to the burbs after games. Like most humans, Sox fans will adapt to less available parking in the future if a stadium at the 78 does eventually come to fruition. "

Good to know. 

Yet you come here and regurgitate the same stale talking points bi-weekly. We all get and know your stance, you just choose to ignore any evidence or explanation that doesn't align with your opinion. 

[soxrwhite]

Chicago is Chicago. Its not any other city. Many people on this site live out of town. Thats fine. I'm glad you are White Sox fans and/or strong to your roots, but don't pretend you know our city in 2025.

Suburbanites are not riding the CTA at night. The CTA  lines for the Northside franchise do not run through the west and south sides.

The 78 might work because of it's proximity to downtown. The riverwalk,water taxis, Uber, and short bus rides to ample dowtown parking could do it.

[tray]

1 hour ago, soxrwhite said:

Suburbanites are not riding the CTA at night. The CTA  lines for the Northside franchise do not run through the west and south sides.

And then there is that. 

 

[southsider2k5]

2 hours ago, Sleepy Harold said:

Yet you come here and regurgitate the same stale talking points bi-weekly. We all get and know your stance, you just choose to ignore any evidence or explanation that doesn't align with your opinion. 

It's just tropes at this point.

[Tnetennba]

4 hours ago, JoeC said:

Someone should invent a sort of building where you can park on a 2nd or 3rd floor.

Or do what the Cubs do and shuttle fans in from remote parking lots. 

[southsider2k5]

2 hours ago, soxrwhite said:

Chicago is Chicago. Its not any other city. Many people on this site live out of town. Thats fine. I'm glad you are White Sox fans and/or strong to your roots, but don't pretend you know our city in 2025.

Suburbanites are not riding the CTA at night. The CTA  lines for the Northside franchise do not run through the west and south sides.

The 78 might work because of it's proximity to downtown. The riverwalk,water taxis, Uber, and short bus rides to ample dowtown parking could do it.

Do Cub fans live south and/or west in/of Chicago?  They aren't all coming from the north.  Hell I know tons here in Indiana who take multiple trains,  including through the scary southside, to get to Wrigley. 

[Tnetennba]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

Do Cub fans live south and/or west in/of Chicago?  They aren't all coming from the north.  Hell I know tons here in Indiana who take multiple trains,  including through the scary southside, to get to Wrigley. 

I see plenty of Cubs jerseys on the Orange Line heading into downtown, and *gasp* they transfer to the scary subway at Roosevelt. 

[nrockway]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Do Cub fans live south and/or west in/of Chicago?  They aren't all coming from the north.  Hell I know tons here in Indiana who take multiple trains,  including through the scary southside, to get to Wrigley. 

Also the red line definitely connects south to north. Most trains don't even go west besides the blue line which is ostensibly the safest and runs 24 hours. Most of the criminal activity impacts people who live around 63rd. Also the orange line. I've been on it, like, once. Pink doesn't count.

Edited September 8 by nrockway