While Everyone Talks about the Tatis trade, was the Samardzija trade even worse?

[jasonxctf]

12/9/2014- Samardzija and Michael Ynoa come to the Sox for Chris Bassitt, Josh Phegley, Rangel Ravero and Marcus Semien to Oakland.

During their time with the Sox, Samardzija and Ynoa combine for a 0.4 WAR.

During their time with Oakland, those 4 guys combine for a 32.4 WAR.

NET LOSS -32 WAR

6/4/16- James Shields comes to the Sox for Tatis Jr and Erik Johnson.

During his time with the Sox, Shields had a -0.3 WAR.

During their time with San Diego, Tatis Jr and Erik Johnson combine for a 24.2 WAR.

NET LOSS 24.5 WAR

[Kyyle23]

19 minutes ago, jasonxctf said:

12/9/2014- Samardzija and Michael Ynoa come to the Sox for Chris Bassitt, Josh Phegley, Rangel Ravero and Marcus Semien to Oakland.

During their time with the Sox, Samardzija and Ynoa combine for a 0.4 WAR.

During their time with Oakland, those 4 guys combine for a 32.4 WAR.

NET LOSS -32 WAR

6/4/16- James Shields comes to the Sox for Tatis Jr and Erik Johnson.

During his time with the Sox, Shields had a -0.3 WAR.

During their time with San Diego, Tatis Jr and Erik Johnson combine for a 24.2 WAR.

NET LOSS 24.5 WAR

I think we probably see Tatis get that WAR over the line, whereas the Samardzija trade is complete on the Oakland side 

[almagest]

Yes. Yes it was. I can (somewhat) forgive trading away Tatis, a guy who you had recently signed at a super low level. You certainly shouldn't miss on evaluating your players that badly, but it's one of the risks of trading lower level players. I also would have liked them to send two players away for something better than Shields, who was terrible and at the end of his career at the time, but I assume they asked for Tatis to eat more money in the deal.

The Samardzija trade was HORRIBLE. One of the worst Sox trades I can remember. Semien was a statistical darling in the minors and had a decent amount of hype around here. Bassitt was a solid pitching prospect. Both were MLB ready. Those two alone were way too much for Samardzija, who had only one really good season as a starter, and only had one year left on his deal.

Even if Semien was the 3-ish WAR walk machine playing ok defense at second that we expected, and not the guy with multiple seasons above 7 bWAR, it would still be a terrible deal because Bassitt was immediately BETTER than Samardzijia.

Edited June 24 by almagest

[kitekrazy]

Yes

No way of knowing Tatis would be the same player if he were a Sox.

Hopefully they have learned to never trade with Oakland

[ewokpelts]

On 6/24/2025 at 3:08 PM, almagest said:

Yes. Yes it was. I can (somewhat) forgive trading away Tatis, a guy who you had recently signed at a super low level. You certainly shouldn't miss on evaluating your players that badly, but it's one of the risks of trading lower level players. I also would have liked them to send two players away for something better than Shields, who was terrible and at the end of his career at the time, but I assume they asked for Tatis to eat more money in the deal.

The Samardzija trade was HORRIBLE. One of the worst Sox trades I can remember. Semien was a statistical darling in the minors and had a decent amount of hype around here. Bassitt was a solid pitching prospect. Both were MLB ready. Those two alone were way too much for Samardzija, who had only one really good season as a starter, and only had one year left on his deal.

Even if Semien was the 3-ish WAR walk machine playing ok defense at second that we expected, and not the guy with multiple seasons above 7 bWAR, it would still be a terrible deal because Bassitt was immediately BETTER than Samardzijia.

i think the sox, especially hahn, figured they were hoodwinked very early after that trade, as tatis suddenly was jumping up the padres board. i still think the padres always wanted him, but thanks to them overspending on international players were handcuffed to even offer him what the sox did. but kenny always listens for the siren call of "established vet already signed" and rolled the dice.
I'm convinced more now than in 2016 that this is what happened. especially when you factor in this front office was even more stupid than led to believe. And the conspiracy theory that the rebuild was just to remove bad actors from the team seems slightly more believable because rick jumped on the "we shouldn't have traded tatis" bandwagon early.

[ewokpelts]

On 6/24/2025 at 7:25 PM, kitekrazy said:

Yes

No way of knowing Tatis would be the same player if he were a Sox.

Hopefully they have learned to never trade with Oakland

in all likelihood, tatis would have been an epic flop. just like moncada, robert, jimenez, et al....

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, ewokpelts said:

i think the sox, especially hahn, figured they were hoodwinked very early after that trade, as tatis suddenly was jumping up the padres board. i still think the padres always wanted him, but thanks to them overspending on international players were handcuffed to even offer him what the sox did. but kenny always listens for the siren call of "established vet already signed" and rolled the dice.
I'm convinced more now than in 2016 that this is what happened. especially when you factor in this front office was even more stupid than led to believe. And the conspiracy theory that the rebuild was just to remove bad actors from the team seems slightly more believable because rick jumped on the "we shouldn't have traded tatis" bandwagon early.

Boy is history repeating itself then.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, ewokpelts said:

in all likelihood, tatis would have been an epic flop. just like moncada, robert, jimenez, et al....

Keith Law LOVED the dude.  Someone sure saw him as huge right away.

[MiddleCoastBias]

On 6/24/2025 at 8:25 PM, kitekrazy said:

Yes

No way of knowing Tatis would be the same player if he were a Sox.

Hopefully they have learned to never trade with Oakland

"We shouldn't trade with Oakland. Or Toronto. Or the Dodgers. Or Boston. Or Alex Anthopoulos."

 

Are we the baddies? At some point we need to reflect that maybe this org just isn't good at evaluating talent involved in trades, and everyone else knows it.

[southsider2k5]

9 minutes ago, MiddleCoastBias said:

"We shouldn't trade with Oakland. Or Toronto. Or the Dodgers. Or Boston. Or Alex Anthopoulos."

 

Are we the baddies? At some point we need to reflect that maybe this org just isn't good at evaluating talent involved in trades, and everyone else knows it.

This.  If you consistently fail in trades, the problem is you.

[almagest]

2 hours ago, ewokpelts said:

in all likelihood, tatis would have been an epic flop. just like moncada, robert, jimenez, et al....

Nah, that dude is a special talent. He shot up the Padres system and hit the majors at age 20, after only 3 years in the minors. I don't even think the Sox could've gotten in his way.

[almagest]

2 hours ago, ewokpelts said:

i think the sox, especially hahn, figured they were hoodwinked very early after that trade, as tatis suddenly was jumping up the padres board. i still think the padres always wanted him, but thanks to them overspending on international players were handcuffed to even offer him what the sox did. but kenny always listens for the siren call of "established vet already signed" and rolled the dice.
I'm convinced more now than in 2016 that this is what happened. especially when you factor in this front office was even more stupid than led to believe. And the conspiracy theory that the rebuild was just to remove bad actors from the team seems slightly more believable because rick jumped on the "we shouldn't have traded tatis" bandwagon early.

I have to imagine some scouts or other internal employees were telling Hahn he shouldn't trade Tatis. The talent was immediately obvious. 

[kitekrazy]

1 hour ago, MiddleCoastBias said:

"We shouldn't trade with Oakland. Or Toronto. Or the Dodgers. Or Boston. Or Alex Anthopoulos."

 

Are we the baddies? At some point we need to reflect that maybe this org just isn't good at evaluating talent involved in trades, and everyone else knows it.

This,   Organizations that are consistent at losing make trades to kick the can down the road.  

The hard part is to identify or acquire good scouting.  That's the real free agency.

[GreenSox]

Oh I've talked about it plenty.

It was worse if for no other reason than what in the world is a 73-win team doing trading 4 young players (when it has so few to begin with) for a 1 year rent in the first place? 

There really was no realistic scenario in which that trade could possibly have had a positive outcome for the Sox. 
And Hahn was strutting after that trade. 

[JoeC]

2 hours ago, MiddleCoastBias said:

"We shouldn't trade with Oakland. Or Toronto. Or the Dodgers. Or Boston. Or Alex Anthopoulos."

 

Are we the baddies? At some point we need to reflect that maybe this org just isn't good at evaluating talent involved in trades, and everyone else knows it.

Mitchel and Webb reference?

[Ducksnort]

Sometimes the best trades are the ones that didn't ever happen...

[kitekrazy]

12 hours ago, almagest said:

Nah, that dude is a special talent. He shot up the Padres system and hit the majors at age 20, after only 3 years in the minors. I don't even think the Sox could've gotten in his way.

 But Reinsdorf would...........imagine being exposed to the staff under TLR and Grifol.  

[kitekrazy]

4 hours ago, Ducksnort said:

Sometimes the best trades are the ones that didn't ever happen...

Yet it is hard for so many GMs to stay put at the deadline.  It's always trade just to make a trade.

That was Getz last year,  To get rid of Kopech you had to undersell Fedde.   The Dodger's version of Kopech is another example this organization is toxic.

[FloydBannister1983]

8 hours ago, kitekrazy said:

 But Reinsdorf would...........imagine being exposed to the staff under TLR and Grifol.  

Some had Moncada as the top rated prospect.  They screwed him up.  Of course the Sox could get in Tatis’s way.

[Dam8610]

2 hours ago, FloydBannister1983 said:

Some had Moncada as the top rated prospect.  They screwed him up.  Of course the Sox could get in Tatis’s way.

Moncada needed an organization that would hold him accountable. Jerry Reinsdorf's White Sox have never been that organization.

[Chick Mercedes]

Sosa for Bell still gets my shorts in a bunch as well as the aforementioned deals. While every team has this type stuff in their annals, the Sox have perfected the art.

Edited July 1 by Chick Mercedes

[Lip Man 1]

5 hours ago, Chick Mercedes said:

Sosa for Bell still gets my shorts in a bunch as well as the aforementioned deals. While every team has this type stuff in their annals, the Sox have perfected the art.

Sosa wasn't getting along with Walt Hriniak, the Sox hitting coach and as history has shown his "transformation" is an embarrassment the Sox didn't need.

It's unfortunate, he had talent, in 1990 he was the only player in baseball to record double figures in doubles, triples, home runs, stolen bases and outfield assists. He had the makings of a five-tool player but all he wanted to do was try to hit home runs.

Oh and regarding Bell he drove in 112 RBI's in 92 and 64 in 102 games in 93...not exactly chopped liver.  

[77 Hitmen]

12 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Sosa wasn't getting along with Walt Hriniak, the Sox hitting coach and as history has shown his "transformation" is an embarrassment the Sox didn't need.

It's unfortunate, he had talent, in 1990 he was the only player in baseball to record double figures in doubles, triples, home runs, stolen bases and outfield assists. He had the makings of a five-tool player but all he wanted to do was try to hit home runs.

Oh and regarding Bell he drove in 112 RBI's in 92 and 64 in 102 games in 93...not exactly chopped liver.  

So, you think Bell having 64 RBIs in 1993 was worth trading away a generational talent like Sosa?  Sosa had 93 RBIs that year vs. Bell's 64 if we're treating that one stat as the only indicator of success.  Bell's slash line in 1993 was .217/.243/.363 with a -2.5 WAR.  Woof!  And where was he during our 1993 postseason when the Sox needed him?  We sure could have used Sosa's bat then.  After that Bell was out of baseball.  He never played another game after 1993.  Sox coaching staff being unable to work with such an immense talent speaks more to the failing of this organization than it does to a player whose career took off like a rocket after he left this organization.

I don't know about other Sox fans, but I'll take chopped liver over the s%*# sandwich that this trade was for the Sox.

And yeah, Sammy turned out to be a huge fraud, but in the meantime he help supercharged the Cubs' edge over the Sox in the Chicago market beginning in 1998 and they've never looked back.   Somehow they've survived the embarrassment of Sosa's steroid/corked bat/walking out on the team debacle.

 

Edited July 2 by 77 Hitmen

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, 77 Hitmen said:

So, you think Bell having 64 RBIs in 1993 was worth trading away a generational talent like Sosa?  Sosa had 93 RBIs that year vs. Bell's 64 if we're treating that one stat as the only indicator of success.  Bell's slash line in 1993 was .217/.243/.363 with a -2.5 WAR.  Woof!  And where was he during our 1993 postseason when the Sox needed him?  We sure could have used Sosa's bat then.  After that Bell was out of baseball.  He never played another game after 1993.  Sox coaching staff being unable to work with such an immense talent speaks more to the failing of this organization than it does to a player whose career took off like a rocket after he left this organization.

I don't know about other Sox fans, but I'll take chopped liver over the s%*# sandwich that this trade was for the Sox.

And yeah, Sammy turned out to be a huge fraud, but in the meantime he help supercharged the Cubs' edge over the Sox in the Chicago market beginning in 1998 and they've never looked back.   Somehow they've survived the embarrassment of Sosa's steroid/corked bat/walking out on the team debacle.

 

Excuse me, reading is an art form. I was commenting on Bell's TOTAL RBI's for both the 92 and 93 seasons when I made the chopped liver comment.

"Generational talent?" Sosa had that potential but at the time he was turning into the head case he'd later clearly show with the Cubs and again bottom line he wasn't getting along with Hriniak who correctly had more say in the organization than a player who was basically a rookie in 1990-91. 

Sosa was a fraud and a liar, end of story.  

[BrittBurnsFan]

39 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

"Generational talent?" Sosa had that potential but at the time he was turning into the head case he'd later clearly show with the Cubs and again bottom line he wasn't getting along with Hriniak who correctly had more say in the organization than a player who was basically a rookie in 1990-91. 

Sosa was a fraud and a liar, end of story.  

THIS!  Bingo!  If Sammy wasn't listening to Hriniak...it is another stupid decision on Sammy's part!  Frank still RAVES about Hriniak...which "generational" talent showed they had some work ethic along with the desire to be great?!