ptatc Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 2 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said: If the owners are going to insist on forcing the salary cap issue you can bet your ass they will lockout the players right after the 26 season ends. To think otherwise right now given the published comments is foolhardy. I hope the owners don't go down that road but never underestimate their collective stupidity. And just FYI in the The Athletic yesterday they had a story where Manfred feels the union is "out of touch" with the rank and file and has been working to get the owners message directly to them. I'm sure that isn't sitting well on that side of the table. But regarding JR, if there is the SLIGHTEST chance of a labor impasse that's all the excuse he needs not to do anything next off season in fact because of the possibility he may order another team payroll cut I know we dont agree very often but on this we agree. There will be a prolonged work stoppage. If even JR and the Sox incurred substantial debt over the last few years, most of the teams are struggling. They will push for a salary cap but probably end up with more substantial luxury tax issues. Its unfortunate as other leagues reap those benefits and it continues to cause competitive issues in baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 31 minutes ago, kitekrazy said: You have to get lucky and land a star in the draft. You eventually run out of Crochets to trade and even worse when your farm hopefuls get that TJ surgery. No need for a fulltime DH. When an organization is bad for so long this is the failed practice. I don't know how to fix but losing is a habit. It's the same teams every year that are bad. I can tell you how the Sox can fix it: have a steady pipeline of young players, which is mostly via a good farm system (along with some churn). I’ve been following for 50 years and the only period in which they were consistently good is also the only period in which they had a good farm system: c. 1990-2010. The idea that the Sox have struggled because JR wouldn't spend $ on the team is off-base. And you don’t need a DH per se, but you need a position player who hits well enough to DH, usually an extra OF or corner OF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 1 hour ago, ptatc said: I know we dont agree very often but on this we agree. There will be a prolonged work stoppage. If even JR and the Sox incurred substantial debt over the last few years, most of the teams are struggling. They will push for a salary cap but probably end up with more substantial luxury tax issues. Its unfortunate as other leagues reap those benefits and it continues to cause competitive issues in baseball. The only thing it will do is stop some teams being being a farm system for better teams. But bad habits are hard to break. so it wont work. All it will do is cheapass s%*# organization owners brag about losing 100 and be well under the cap. Lead the way Jerry. Make them all spend a minimum of 120M or get out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 1 hour ago, GreenSox said: I can tell you how the Sox can fix it: have a steady pipeline of young players, which is mostly via a good farm system (along with some churn). I’ve been following for 50 years and the only period in which they were consistently good is also the only period in which they had a good farm system: c. 1990-2010. The idea that the Sox have struggled because JR wouldn't spend $ on the team is off-base. And you don’t need a DH per se, but you need a position player who hits well enough to DH, usually an extra OF or corner OF. You need to have the right people drafting the players first. That’s still in question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 17 minutes ago, kitekrazy said: The only thing it will do is stop some teams being being a farm system for better teams. But bad habits are hard to break. so it wont work. All it will do is cheapass s%*# organization owners brag about losing 100 and be well under the cap. Lead the way Jerry. Make them all spend a minimum of 120M or get out. This year it's basically a minimum of $145 million and up to be a legit playoff contender. Or you have to be the Rays continuing to excel in the face of adversity, like stadium/team sale/relocation issues and Wander Franco's downfall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 (edited) 1 hour ago, kitekrazy said: The only thing it will do is stop some teams being being a farm system for better teams. But bad habits are hard to break. so it wont work. All it will do is cheapass s%*# organization owners brag about losing 100 and be well under the cap. Lead the way Jerry. Make them all spend a minimum of 120M or get out. I don't think so. It will make it more competitive. NFL teams like Green Bay would become the pirates if they didn't have the cap and they can improve other things around the park. Part of the reason they do that in MLB is that teams know there is no way Pittsburgh and others can compete with LA and NY for spending. Their revenues are just too great. Edited July 2 by ptatc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 19 hours ago, ptatc said: I don't think so. It will make it more competitive. NFL teams like Green Bay would become the pirates if they didn't have the cap and they can improve other things around the park. Part of the reason they do that in MLB is that teams know there is no way Pittsburgh and others can compete with LA and NY for spending. Their revenues are just too great. at the same time they've raised their own good players and made smart trades Why do people think what works in the NFL or NBA will work in MLB? It wont. Even in those sports bad teams are bad teams. Drafting players in MLB is a much higher risk. It's very hard to be good in MLB than the NFL or NBA. Apple and oranges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleAleSox Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 50 minutes ago, kitekrazy said: at the same time they've raised their own good players and made smart trades Why do people think what works in the NFL or NBA will work in MLB? It wont. Even in those sports bad teams are bad teams. Drafting players in MLB is a much higher risk. It's very hard to be good in MLB than the NFL or NBA. Apple and oranges Almost every good player on the Dodgers is from somewhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 12 minutes ago, PaleAleSox said: Almost every good player on the Dodgers is from somewhere else. Because they have such a good farm system and can afford to trade prospects for established players and stars. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Because they have such a good farm system and can afford to trade prospects for established players and stars. Who are all the good prospects they have traded away recently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 23 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Who are all the good prospects they have traded away recently? Miguel Vargas for starters... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 16 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Who are all the good prospects they have traded away recently? The Rays officially completed a trade on Saturday that sent Glasnow, outfielder Manuel Margot and $4 million to the Dodgers for young starter Ryan Pepiot and outfielder Jonny DeLuca. Glasnow then signed a five-year, $136.5 million extension with Los Angeles. Obviously the trades ending up with Kopech and Edman on their roster. For Mookie Betts, The Red Sox received from the Dodgers outfielder Alex Verdugo (L.A.’s top prospect -- and MLB's No. 35 -- a year ago), shortstop Jeter Downs (their third-highest ranked prospect on the 2020 Top 100 list, at No. 44) and catcher Connor Wong (No. 28 on the Dodgers' 2019 year-end list). "The Los Angeles Dodgers officially announced their trade to acquire Max Scherzer and Trea Turner from the Washington Nationals in exchange for a prospect haul of Keibert Ruiz, Josiah Gray, Donovan Casey and Gerardo Carrillo." https://dodgersway.com/posts/5-trades-the-dodgers-regret-making-under-andrew-friedman-01h50amjsssg/5 And another that predates Freidman. "The Los Angeles Dodgers today acquired four-time All-Stars Adrian Gonzalez and Carl Crawford, former 20-game winner and World Series MVP Josh Beckett, infielder Nick Punto and cash from the Boston Red Sox in exchange for first baseman James Loney, pitcher Allen Webster, infielder Ivan De Jesus and two players to be named later. Dodger General Manager Ned Colletti made the announcement." Just a few examples. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 21 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Miguel Vargas for starters... Beat me to it. 🤣 They have so much depth they were able to trade Michael Busch for two of their top 5 prospects and restock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 On 7/1/2025 at 6:23 PM, ptatc said: I know we dont agree very often but on this we agree. There will be a prolonged work stoppage. If even JR and the Sox incurred substantial debt over the last few years, most of the teams are struggling. They will push for a salary cap but probably end up with more substantial luxury tax issues. Its unfortunate as other leagues reap those benefits and it continues to cause competitive issues in baseball. A salary cap would require the owners to open their book on revenues and requires a fix spend. From all analysis ive done on this impact, it would benefit the players. That said, because the union is disproportionately representing the unions biggest earners, it wouldn't surprise me if this is a battle. Generally speaking though a cap comes with a floor and it greatly helps the mid-level/avg player at the expense of a few guys not being able to push the billionaire status. Im highly skeptical ownership actually wants that though given that they're currently paying the lowest share of revenues to players among the major sports exactly because they dont have a cap. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananarchy Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: A salary cap would require the owners to open their book on revenues and requires a fix spend. From all analysis ive done on this impact, it would benefit the players. That said, because the union is disproportionately representing the unions biggest earners, it wouldn't surprise me if this is a battle. Generally speaking though a cap comes with a floor and it greatly helps the mid-level/avg player at the expense of a few guys not being able to push the billionaire status. Im highly skeptical ownership actually wants that though given that they're currently paying the lowest share of revenues to players among the major sports exactly because they dont have a cap. This is both so true and so messed up. The mean salary in the MLB is about $5 million. The median salary has dropped to $1.3 million (Source). That's quite the discrepancy due to a few mega contracts. Edited July 2 by Bananarchy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 19 minutes ago, Bananarchy said: This is both so true and so messed up. The mean salary in the MLB is about $5 million. The median salary has dropped to $1.3 million (Source). That's quite the discrepancy due to a few mega contracts. Yup, the last ten to fifteen years in baseball have been incredible from a financial perspective. The exact opposite direction of other sports where the masses life the tides. The trend has been pushed to the extreme. Average veterans are basically being exponged from the game slowly. Floors are essential for maintaining product quality AND player salary growths. Owners have pulled the wool over everyone's eyes citing largest contract growth while ignoring the general pretend for the masses of players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Because they have such a good farm system and can afford to trade prospects for established players and stars. They have made more splashes in FA than big trades, but being able to acquire Betts and Glasnow without emptying out the farm sure doesn’t hurt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 4 hours ago, kitekrazy said: at the same time they've raised their own good players and made smart trades Why do people think what works in the NFL or NBA will work in MLB? It wont. Even in those sports bad teams are bad teams. Drafting players in MLB is a much higher risk. It's very hard to be good in MLB than the NFL or NBA. Apple and oranges It wouldn't be apples and oranges if they had the same rules. The teams could do many more things if they know their expenses. They draftand develop their own players because they have a cost controlled payroll and can put money into those areas. It works in all of the other leagues. Green Bay, Oklahoma City there is no way those markets could compete with LA and NY without the cap. I dont see any reason why it wouldn't work in MLB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 On 7/1/2025 at 4:11 PM, Chicago White Sox said: Good plate dispute, decent power, bad BABIP. But yes, let’s the randomness of baseball and overreact to a 30 game sample of batting average. I thought of responding and would've said something similar. I suppose you could look at his body of MLB ABs and say May was the outlier but there's spot between his May and June that you can hope he'd settle into. You'll never know if you don't give these young guys a real chance to establish themselves. The Sox aren't trading Vargas unless that get a really good non pitching return. Sox fans rushing in to predict prospect doom but then scream play the kids just so they can scream more about how the prospects are busts as quick as they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 28 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: I thought of responding and would've said something similar. I suppose you could look at his body of MLB ABs and say May was the outlier but there's spot between his May and June that you can hope he'd settle into. You'll never know if you don't give these young guys a real chance to establish themselves. The Sox aren't trading Vargas unless that get a really good non pitching return. Sox fans rushing in to predict prospect doom but then scream play the kids just so they can scream more about how the prospects are busts as quick as they can. The current lineup tonight has just four future members of the Sox if you still include Vargas. The dual catching prospect tandem was supposed to be the strength of this team...for the future. But has it really worked out that way? And they're still 1 1/2 to 2 years away with their next legit hitting prospects in A ball with AA almost barren unless you're a huge Bergolla/J.Gonzalez fan. Just lots of frustration with a 4-5 year rebuild bundle together with a highly uncertain payoff...especially with the labor impasse blocking yet another FA class as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 17 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: The current lineup tonight has just four future members of the Sox if you still include Vargas. The dual catching prospect tandem was supposed to be the strength of this team...for the future. But has it really worked out that way? And they're still 1 1/2 to 2 years away with their next legit hitting prospects in A ball with AA almost barren unless you're a huge Bergolla/J.Gonzalez fan. Just lots of frustration with a 4-5 year rebuild bundle together with a highly uncertain payoff...especially with the labor impasse blocking yet another FA class as well. Outside of the catching platoon, I don’t see any starter-caliber players on a contender. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 57 minutes ago, ptatc said: It wouldn't be apples and oranges if they had the same rules. The teams could do many more things if they know their expenses. They draftand develop their own players because they have a cost controlled payroll and can put money into those areas. It works in all of the other leagues. Green Bay, Oklahoma City there is no way those markets could compete with LA and NY without the cap. I dont see any reason why it wouldn't work in MLB. It will be interesting BTW LA is not a good NFL city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 37 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: The current lineup tonight has just four future members of the Sox if you still include Vargas. The dual catching prospect tandem was supposed to be the strength of this team...for the future. But has it really worked out that way? And they're still 1 1/2 to 2 years away with their next legit hitting prospects in A ball with AA almost barren unless you're a huge Bergolla/J.Gonzalez fan. Just lots of frustration with a 4-5 year rebuild bundle together with a highly uncertain payoff...especially with the labor impasse blocking yet another FA class as well. You'll excuse me if I don't buy in to your crystal ball. I asked a simple question just a minute ago is Eisert was pitching 1 or more innings and no one ventured even a guess. Most here are afraid to be wrong even on a softball question. Eisert not known for multiple innings outings. Has been a 1 inning opener before. But they 'll tell you when someone is a bust secure with the knowledge that most prospects never reach the lofty expectations of fans and even if they end up succeeding they won't get called out on it. Maybe there's not enough people in the game thread . But I stand by my conclusions. Slater !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 Slater Cycle watch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 37 minutes ago, kitekrazy said: It will be interesting BTW LA is not a good NFL city. It has 2 teams one of which won a super bowl recently. You are correct. It will be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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