southsider2k5 Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 16 minutes ago, Timmy U said: What would you consider 1.50 on the dollar? All prospects can fail, so wouldn't you have to get at least two viable guys? A bird in the hand and all that. I want two of their top non-Catcher, non-MLB position player prospects as a starting point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 28 minutes ago, Timmy U said: What would you consider 1.50 on the dollar? All prospects can fail, so wouldn't you have to get at least two viable guys? A bird in the hand and all that. I haven't looked for specifics but something like a top 50 guy and then a top 100 guy and then another top 150 type. So like a A- type, a B- type and then a C+ preferably toolsy OF type. If Vargas is only getting you a back end top 100 and a top 150 type no way. You gotta try and get more value and a headliner. Frankly I don't see a team paying that much, but the Mariners are under a ton of pressure right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 I still say we're going nowhere in the standings if all we do is trade guys. Vargas and Beni ... if the rumors are true I could understand them. They both are major league hitters IMO. Beni doesn't hit for average as well as he should but will get you 15-20 homers and average to bad defense. Vargas seems like a real player who like Meidroth could be part of a contender. I would assume Sox will be after more pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 45 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: I haven't looked for specifics but something like a top 50 guy and then a top 100 guy and then another top 150 type. So like a A- type, a B- type and then a C+ preferably toolsy OF type. If Vargas is only getting you a back end top 100 and a top 150 type no way. You gotta try and get more value and a headliner. Frankly I don't see a team paying that much, but the Mariners are under a ton of pressure right now. If no one is willing to pay up, you still own him for four more years after this one, and you just keep playing him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 If someone wants to give value for Vargas, the Sox should do it. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 1 hour ago, WBWSF said: You keep saying there is going to be a lockout/strike in 2027 I don't see it happening. It would be another PR disaster for the sport. I think the only thing that will change will be the deferred payments and I would think that should be worked out. I read where the Dodgers have over $1 billion dollars in deferred payments. Teams do this to avoid the luxury tax. Feel free to search the internet for stories that have already been published talking about the real possibility of owners pushing yet again for a salary cap. At least two, Orioles and Yankees have come out and talked about the need for it. Stories have already come out about a lockout happening soon after the conclusion of the 2026 season. Since when do you think owners give a damn about the PR impact of another forced labor situation? Or for that matter care about the sport in general? They care about one thing...$$$. They'll go down the salary cap rabbit hole again. Also the MLBPA has publicly come out and in the strongest terms and said they would never agree to a salary cap after the owners comments came out. What does that smell like to you sir? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 Any chance we can change the thread title to Trade Deadline? I don’t know why, but “Trading” Deadline is driving me crazy. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 18 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said: Any chance we can change the thread title to Trade Deadline? I don’t know why, but “Trading” Deadline is driving me crazy. It's also like 5 weeks away. Jumping the gun a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 2 hours ago, WBWSF said: You keep saying there is going to be a lockout/strike in 2027 I don't see it happening. It would be another PR disaster for the sport. I think the only thing that will change will be the deferred payments and I would think that should be worked out. I read where the Dodgers have over $1 billion dollars in deferred payments. Teams do this to avoid the luxury tax. These are billionaires fighting millionaires for more money. Do you think either side cares about "PR"? Absurd. Nothing indicates that they are NOT going to be locked out, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WBWSF Posted July 1 Author Share Posted July 1 26 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: Feel free to search the internet for stories that have already been published talking about the real possibility of owners pushing yet again for a salary cap. At least two, Orioles and Yankees have come out and talked about the need for it. Stories have already come out about a lockout happening soon after the conclusion of the 2026 season. Since when do you think owners give a damn about the PR impact of another forced labor situation? Or for that matter care about the sport in general? They care about one thing...$$$. They'll go down the salary cap rabbit hole again. Also the MLBPA has publicly come out and in the strongest terms and said they would never agree to a salary cap after the owners comments came out. What does that smell like to you sir? No strike and no lockout. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 28 minutes ago, WBWSF said: No strike and no lockout. Yeah I'd be really surprised if they actually missed any games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 9 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: Yeah I'd be really surprised if they actually missed any games. If the owners are going to insist on forcing the salary cap issue you can bet your ass they will lockout the players right after the 26 season ends. To think otherwise right now given the published comments is foolhardy. I hope the owners don't go down that road but never underestimate their collective stupidity. And just FYI in the The Athletic yesterday they had a story where Manfred feels the union is "out of touch" with the rank and file and has been working to get the owners message directly to them. I'm sure that isn't sitting well on that side of the table. But regarding JR, if there is the SLIGHTEST chance of a labor impasse that's all the excuse he needs not to do anything next off season in fact because of the possibility he may order another team payroll cut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 (edited) 35 minutes ago, WBWSF said: No strike and no lockout. To dream the impossible dream. Given what has already been stated publicly I admire your optimism, it's completely misguided and somewhat delusional but it is what it is. Edited July 1 by Lip Man 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 14 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: If the owners are going to insist on forcing the salary cap issue you can bet your ass they will lockout the players right after the 26 season ends. To think otherwise right now given the published comments is foolhardy. I hope the owners don't go down that road but never underestimate their collective stupidity. And just FYI in the The Athletic yesterday they had a story where Manfred feels the union is "out of touch" with the rank and file and has been working to get the owners message directly to them. I'm sure that isn't sitting well on that side of the table. But regarding JR, if there is the SLIGHTEST chance of a labor impasse that's all the excuse he needs not to do anything next off season in fact because of the possibility he may order another team payroll cut It's owners vs owners vs players though. There's no way the majority of the owners are going to be willing to miss games when they'll never have a salary cap anyway. Union leadership is out of touch with the rank and file. The players always cave in general but the rank and file can't afford to miss paychecks. There will likely be a prolongued stoppage again but I think they play 162. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 22 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: It's owners vs owners vs players though. There's no way the majority of the owners are going to be willing to miss games when they'll never have a salary cap anyway. Union leadership is out of touch with the rank and file. The players always cave in general but the rank and file can't afford to miss paychecks. There will likely be a prolongued stoppage again but I think they play 162. I want to make sure I understood you correctly...the players always cave? Have you followed the labor history between the owners and the MLBPA since the first impasse in 1972? It is the owners who have always backed down with the possible exception of the last impasse. Perhaps this is a typo on your part, just want to be sure. All I'll say is it was a handful of owners in the past that have always been able to railroad insane demands to the majority of other owners. Maybe they have finally learned what you say (but we'll have to wait and see) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 3 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: I doubt the Mariners are that interested in Vargas but you could try for Farmelo. Farmelo for Vargas feels like an overpay, but I wouldn't expect more than an A ball prospect in return if the Sox are hoping to cash in. At some point the Mariners are going to have to push a few chips in if they are serious about making a run, but Vargas just doesn't move the needle for a team in need of a legit bat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 2 hours ago, SoxBlanco said: Any chance we can change the thread title to Trade Deadline? I don’t know why, but “Trading” Deadline is driving me crazy. Change it to trading deadweight? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 2 hours ago, baseball_gal_aly said: If someone wants to give value for Vargas, the Sox should do it. Rinse and repeat = suck. Another symptom of trade frenzy is overvaluing players and not considering what exactly is it going to accomplish. How exactly do they benefit from this? When will the rebuild of the rebuild rebuild be complete? The Sox will always be cellars. It's what s%*# teams do and fans buy into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 4 hours ago, Timmy U said: I mean, no one's untouchable. Sure if they want to give up a real hitter like Emerson, Montes, or Celesten... Sure I guess. Otherwise? Why are we churning through guys with 5 years of control? You start doing that this rebuild is going to get it's own 125 year patch. That's true, but we are still unsettled at 2 IF, 3 OF and DH and bench and depth. There's a point where we will have to slow down the churn (although we should never completely stop the churn), but we aren't there yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 35 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: Farmelo for Vargas feels like an overpay, but I wouldn't expect more than an A ball prospect in return if the Sox are hoping to cash in. At some point the Mariners are going to have to push a few chips in if they are serious about making a run, but Vargas just doesn't move the needle for a team in need of a legit bat. I think baseball ran out of naive GMs that even gave up a starting pitcher for a player like Vargas Are we dumbing down to the level of the Sox front office? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 5 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Sources? Often from please read my blog also would be comparable to bullshit.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 24 minutes ago, kitekrazy said: Rinse and repeat = suck. Another symptom of trade frenzy is overvaluing players and not considering what exactly is it going to accomplish. How exactly do they benefit from this? When will the rebuild of the rebuild rebuild be complete? The Sox will always be cellars. It's what s%*# teams do and fans buy into it. When you have enough talent coming together all at once to threaten. 500, I will listen. We can't even threaten lwss than 100 losses right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 13 minutes ago, GreenSox said: That's true, but we are still unsettled at 2 IF, 3 OF and DH and bench and depth. There's a point where we will have to slow down the churn (although we should never completely stop the churn), but we aren't there yet. You have to get lucky and land a star in the draft. You eventually run out of Crochets to trade and even worse when your farm hopefuls get that TJ surgery. No need for a fulltime DH. When an organization is bad for so long this is the failed practice. I don't know how to fix but losing is a habit. It's the same teams every year that are bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 3 hours ago, baseball_gal_aly said: If someone wants to give value for Vargas, the Sox should do it. Good plate dispute, decent power, bad BABIP. But yes, let’s the randomness of baseball and overreact to a 30 game sample of batting average. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 10 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: When you have enough talent coming together all at once to threaten. 500, I will listen. We can't even threaten lwss than 100 losses right now. I just don't see them playing .500 in my lifetime. The Guardians never get real bad, even the Royals ditched the cheapass route, the Twins are cheap ass but somehow end up decent, then there's the Tigers. Imagine of those teams spent money. For the Sox it's a rebuild of the rebuild rebuild. Even during the KW years they would tease us as being a possible postseason team only to end under .500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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