8 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Neither one will probably ever hit well enough for first or dh

So who are they blocking that would hit better?

8 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

So who are they blocking that would hit better?

Thus the idea of trading one of them.  Their value is at catcher and Sox can't get full value from both at catcher.

13 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Thus the idea of trading one of them.  Their value is at catcher and Sox can't get full value from both at catcher.

For now they can and that gives us additional info on their future while not necessarily losing any trade value.

I wonder Mike Elias would consider trading one of their younger bats for a Davis Martin, Cannon, or Shane Smith all are on controllable contracts 

Maybe Coby Mayo or Kjerstad who are having very down years like the rest of their team. 

Edited July 16, 2025Jul 16 by Rey21

18 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Thus the idea of trading one of them.  Their value is at catcher and Sox can't get full value from both at catcher.

They aren't going to get much for Quero or Lee on the trade market anyway.  They sure aren't going to get a power hitting 1B.

11 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Thus the idea of trading one of them.  Their value is at catcher and Sox can't get full value from both at catcher.

I'm really not understanding this. You have 2 catchers. You don't have anyone hitting out of his head at any level to close off first base. You can rotate them at 1B/C to give them both playing time, develop their bats in the pros, and give them decent exposure behind the plate. 

Tim Elko week was fun, and all, but there's really nobody, not even Miguel Vargas, who should lock off first base for anybody. 

Like, really, this team is the 1989 White Sox minus the stars. One or two of these guys might develop to play a roll on the next playoff run. A couple others might hold positions until some monster graduates. Teel and Quero can rotate around C/1B/DH/LF, and Blake Sobol could pull his pud on the bench for all Vinny Capra gave us. 

Neither of them is showing themselves to be a superstar right now. They're both nice rookies who go through hitting spurts, but it's hardly flipping a coin between Adley Rutchman and Buster Posey. Conversely, it's not like Albert Pujols is crying at AAA because nobody loves him. 

15 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

For now they can and that gives us additional info on their future while not necessarily losing any trade value.

Certainly no hurry.
And  at least for this season, he who doesn't catch, is the DH every night.  

21 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I'm really not understanding this. You have 2 catchers. You don't have anyone hitting out of his head at any level to close off first base. You can rotate them at 1B/C to give them both playing time, develop their bats in the pros, and give them decent exposure behind the plate. 

 

Well that's a problem that the Sox should try to resolve,  isn't it?
I think the idea is that yes indeed they are both  premium catchers.  They were both top 100 prospects; is it not unreasonable to believe that they will both be above average starting catchers?

As such, here is your choice:

2 on the roster gives us premium catcher coverage 100% of the time.  But 1 roster hole 100% of the time.

Moving 1 for  premium player at another position gives us premium catcher 67%ish of the time (Korey Lee or the like the other 33%) but that roster hole is now completely filled.

If they aren't premium catchers then this is all moot.  
But there is time to find out 1 way or the other.

Edited July 16, 2025Jul 16 by GreenSox

20 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Well that's a problem that the Sox should try to resolve,  isn't it?
I think the idea is that yes indeed they are both  premium catchers.  They were both top 100 prospects; is it not unreasonable to believe that they will both be above average starting catchers?

As such, here is your choice:

2 on the roster gives us premium catcher coverage 100% of the time.  But 1 roster hole 100% of the time.

Moving 1 for  premium player at another position gives us premium catcher 67%ish of the time (Korey Lee or the like the other 33%) but that roster hole is now completely filled.

If they aren't premium catchers then this is all moot.  
But there is time to find out 1 way or the other.

They are still unproven prospects.  They aren’t getting you full returns.  

40 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Certainly no hurry.
And  at least for this season, he who doesn't catch, is the DH every night.  

I wish that were the case ha but also, probably why they brought in Sabol.

48 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

1) Well that's a problem that the Sox should try to resolve,  isn't it?
2) I think the idea is that yes indeed they are both  premium catchers.  They were both top 100 prospects; is it not unreasonable to believe that they will both be above average starting catchers?

As such, here is your choice:

3) 2 on the roster gives us premium catcher coverage 100% of the time.  But 1 roster hole 100% of the time.

4) Moving 1 for  premium player at another position gives us premium catcher 67%ish of the time (Korey Lee or the like the other 33%) but that roster hole is now completely filled.

5a) If they aren't premium catchers then this is all moot.  
5b) But there is time to find out 1 way or the other.

1) Is it a problem? And there's really no rush. 
2) We don't know they're both "premium catchers". Yes, it is unreasonable. Both have holes in their defensive games. Time will tell if they can fix them.
3) Right now, I wouldn't call it "premium" catching coverage. And we don't need to have a "roster hole". 
4) I'll say yes to stop making you wrong. But you don't know which is "better", and having two top prospects doesn't create a "hole". 
5) Yeah, we don't know which is which, so why not rotate for the rest of the year, maybe next, and find out? 

56 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Well that's a problem that the Sox should try to resolve,  isn't it?
I think the idea is that yes indeed they are both  premium catchers.  They were both top 100 prospects; is it not unreasonable to believe that they will both be above average starting catchers?

As such, here is your choice:

2 on the roster gives us premium catcher coverage 100% of the time.  But 1 roster hole 100% of the time.

Moving 1 for  premium player at another position gives us premium catcher 67%ish of the time (Korey Lee or the like the other 33%) but that roster hole is now completely filled.

If they aren't premium catchers then this is all moot.  
But there is time to find out 1 way or the other.

Oh, and there's probably a lot of value for Teel or Quero to sit on the bench and talk to McKinven and Venable during the game. Days off aren't a total loss. 

4 hours ago, ptatc said:

Yeah, always hijacked from actually trade talk. 

Yeah, go back and read my post again.  I questioned Rojas’ trade value.  There was absolutely nothing wrong with the post so I’m not sure what you think was hijacked.  That was the discussion, no?  If I had said Rojas was worth a top 100 prospect, I guess that would have been okay?

Edited July 17, 2025Jul 17 by WhiteSox2023

4 hours ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Depends on the return. If its just random low A wildcard, you can get that a year from now and you keep him. 

Chances are he won't have as good of a year next year , he'll be 35 and he won't have the extra year of control .

He'll be worth even less . He gets moved . I don't know how many of these competitive balance teams who always get a s%*# load of draft picks are going to make the playoffs but those are teams you need to trade with sometimes .They're quicker to unload guys to make room for new draftees. 

The Sox don't get CB picks or extra draft money because they are a big market team in a 2 team city which sort of makes them a smaller market team but without all the advantages that , Cleveland, Minnesota, St Louis , Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh , Colorado etc get. Then you throw in the lottery and anti tanking rules and  it hurts the big market teams more than the  small market teams . So JR is cutting his teams youth supply in all kinds of different ways when you throw in not competing for the  most promising players because you can say you're morally opposed to the way  business is done with handshake deals for 13 to 15 year olds before they're eligible to be signed. So your talent pool is corrupted from the start. Not keeping pace with the league with R & D  puts you even farther behind. Or hiring the better scouts or staying out of the Japanese or Korean markets. They act so Mom andPop even now emphasizing local talent. It honestly makes me think it's just another way to save travel money. Everybody knows warm weather areas produce the most talented players because more kids play baseball year round. Can we seriously think of any more reasons that makes it harder to judge and develop talent if the supply chain is smaller with less quantity and quality talent evaluators and rusty old tools ( ( figuratively speaking) ? Ay caramba ! 

Edited July 17, 2025Jul 17 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

2 hours ago, Rey21 said:

I wonder Mike Elias would consider trading one of their younger bats for a Davis Martin, Cannon, or Shane Smith all are on controllable contracts 

Maybe Coby Mayo or Kjerstad who are having very down years like the rest of their team. 

Good question.
I'm not so sure about those Orioles, but more generally, should the Sox sell Martin, Cannon or Smith for market value.   Any player is available for the right price, but at fair value?
Martin perhaps, but the others will likely continue to improve.  And feel more confident if Schultz and Taylor hadn't hit a hiccup.  

But the Sox will have to make some moves to get this fixed.

Edited July 17, 2025Jul 17 by GreenSox

56 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

1) Is it a problem? And there's really no rush. 
2) We don't know they're both "premium catchers". Yes, it is unreasonable. Both have holes in their defensive games. Time will tell if they can fix them.
3) Right now, I wouldn't call it "premium" catching coverage. And we don't need to have a "roster hole". 
4) I'll say yes to stop making you wrong. But you don't know which is "better", and having two top prospects doesn't create a "hole". 
5) Yeah, we don't know which is which, so why not rotate for the rest of the year, maybe next, and find out? 

I think the more they play the quicker you find out which one you rather have, if that's even a problem at all or needs to be resolved quickly. It's not. 

I mean I can keep repeating it's a long rebuild, with a lame duck owner and lame duck executives operating on a shoestring budget because the  owner has other fish to fry and with a possible lockout on the horizon.

I mean sure knock yourselves out arguing and crying about a couple million wasted on bad players as if you didn't know that picking players from that end of the talent pool to fill your MLB and AAA teams is going to result in a lot of bad looking decisions . 

The best you can hope for is that there is real change going on behind the scenes again with probably more that can be done with more money. This is likely about the worst situation to be in. I mean we're still the 2nd worst team in baseball but wow we have a pitching staff thats been comparable to playoff teams like the Dodgers and Blue Jays at least for the 1st 100 games even with all the TJ surgeries . They've done amazingly well finding pitching out of nowhere. 

We can look back and see a lot of people thought without Fedde and Crochet and terrible RP that the Sox would be even worse this year. But the majority  did expect an uptick in wins , mainly because it just seemed implausible to lose so many again. Colorado is taking a stab at it though. But this was the year to get a shot at the 2026 top draft pick anyway. So, carry on with the minutiae .

Here are the guys we should be trading:

• Robert + cash (weak side platoon CF at worst w/ significant upside)
• Tauchman (productive corner OF on the cheap => 129 wRC+)
• Slater (weak side platoon corner OF => 137 wRC+ vs. LHP)
• Taylor (solid bench piece / 4th OF for depth purposes)
• Houser (middle of the rotation SP who can soak up innings)
• Wilson (decent middle reliever with team control)

Try to package some of these guys together in hopes of getting the best couple of prospects you can possibly get.

I’d certainly look to dump Civale, Altavilla, Alexander, Benintendi (with cash), & Rojas but just not sure any value would be there.

I’d certainly explore offers on Sosa, Cannon, and especially Martin, but my guess is they need to be holds for another year before having any meaningful value.

Edited July 17, 2025Jul 17 by Chicago White Sox

8 hours ago, T R U said:

I think Robert, Houser, and Tauchman are slam dunks to be moved. Slater is back to performing against lefties so I think you're right that he may get some interest. 

There are numerous relievers that could be moved, but not sure we get much of anything in return for them. I would expect Civale has more value eating innings the rest of the year than he does on a return, so I would expect to see him stay.

Very well summed up. 

Robert is definitely going to go. There is no way the Sox pick up his option so anything is better than nothing, and not paying him the rest of this season gets Getz brownie points with JR. I don't see anyone the Sox trade netting much, but maybe one or two of what the get back surprise us.

16 hours ago, WestEddy said:

I'm really not understanding this. You have 2 catchers. You don't have anyone hitting out of his head at any level to close off first base. You can rotate them at 1B/C to give them both playing time, develop their bats in the pros, and give them decent exposure behind the plate. 

Tim Elko week was fun, and all, but there's really nobody, not even Miguel Vargas, who should lock off first base for anybody. 

Like, really, this team is the 1989 White Sox minus the stars. One or two of these guys might develop to play a roll on the next playoff run. A couple others might hold positions until some monster graduates. Teel and Quero can rotate around C/1B/DH/LF, and Blake Sobol could pull his pud on the bench for all Vinny Capra gave us. 

Neither of them is showing themselves to be a superstar right now. They're both nice rookies who go through hitting spurts, but it's hardly flipping a coin between Adley Rutchman and Buster Posey. Conversely, it's not like Albert Pujols is crying at AAA because nobody loves him. 

1989 White Sox were a year away from a 90 win team and featured two Hall of Famers in Fisk and Thomas, Ventura, Sosa, McDowell, Fernandez, Hibbard, Radinsky, Thigpen, there's just no parallel there at all in terms of talent.

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

1989 White Sox were a year away from a 90 win team and featured two Hall of Famers in Fisk and Thomas, Ventura, Sosa, McDowell, Fernandez, Hibbard, Radinsky, Thigpen, there's just no parallel there at all in terms of talent.

1989:

C- Fisk
1B - Walker
2B - Lyons
3B - Hulett
SS - Guillen
LF - Pasqua
CF - Gallagher
RF - Calderon
DH - Baines
SP - Melido Perez
SP - Eric King
SP - Steve Rosenberg
SP - Greg Hibbard
SP - Jerry Reuss

I would think that even you could process a sentence like "this team is the 1989 White Sox minus the stars" (Fisk, Walker, Calderon). 

The point is that most of the "starters" on our current team won't be a major part of the next competitive team. Meidroth, Vargas, Cannon - they're all nice stories, but I don't feel they're the enduring core moving forward. A couple players might still be here for the next playoff team, but Gonzalez, Perez, Antonacci, Bonemer, Mogollon, Carlson, Lodise or Shelton may eventually nudge Meidroth and Vargas out. 

Edited July 17, 2025Jul 17 by WestEddy

14 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Here are the guys we should be trading:

• Robert + cash (weak side platoon CF at worst w/ significant upside)
• Tauchman (productive corner OF on the cheap => 129 wRC+)
• Slater (weak side platoon corner OF => 137 wRC+ vs. LHP)
• Taylor (solid bench piece / 4th OF for depth purposes)
• Houser (middle of the rotation SP who can soak up innings)
• Wilson (decent middle reliever with team control)

Try to package some of these guys together in hopes of getting the best couple of prospects you can possibly get.

I’d certainly look to dump Civale, Altavilla, Alexander, Benintendi (with cash), & Rojas but just not sure any value would be there.

I’d certainly explore offers on Sosa, Cannon, and especially Martin, but my guess is they need to be holds for another year before having any meaningful value.

I disagree on moving Sosa personally...I don't think Meidroth is the answer for anything short or long term while Sosa could be.

15 minutes ago, wegner said:

I disagree on moving Sosa personally...I don't think Meidroth is the answer for anything short or long term while Sosa could be.

I don't know.  I think Sosa's ceiling is as a mid tier 2B, with a realistic finishing point of the type of guy you can start for stretches, but you are probably going to be trying to replace if you are starting him.  He's a win for the system to develop, but if someone offers you something for him, you probably take it.

Sox Machine with a detailed breakdown of Sox possible moves:

https://soxmachine.com/2025/07/taking-inventory-of-the-white-soxs-trade-assets-as-the-deadline-approaches

23 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Sure, maybe the type of “bad”.  Frazier is a step above guys like Rojas and especially Lopez.  And only our wizard GM who likes terrible slappy infielders like himself as a player traded anything of value for Little Nicky.  Getz was trying to appease his boss who announced to Sox fans that he lusted for a lineup of nine David Ecksteins.

Yeah, Frazier has a track record of production, but he's not that guy, anymore. He's one of a group of guys a team will feel more comfortable having at the end of the bench in a playoff game than Cam Devanney. Or Vinny Capra. 

I don't think Rojas gets traded. They probably DFA him late in August. But I believe this is what his value is. AAA depth.