Vargas drawing interest

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

"I really don't think the Sox are building for a window. This is the "steady flow" of talent Hahn always dreamed of... "

 

The 1998-2000 and 2017-2019 waves of talent put this recent one to shame. 

Even then, injuries and non performance wiped it out to the point where F.Garcia/Contreras/Jenks and all those other KW moves put that team over the top.   They went from 7 top pitching prospects down to Burhrle and Garland. 

Moncada Robert and Jimenez were all higher ranked than guys like Teel and Braden.  Colson. is the only comp in terms of a teens prospect ranking,  but he fell all the way off many Top 100 lists entirely. 

Then you have Burger Vaughn Madrigal Crochet in the next wave. 

 

Even if all the positional prospects live up to their billing, you're left with a Bottom 1/3rd offense...especially in the power department. 

Almost nobody expects Colson to repeat his pace of 2025 and there are injury/positional concerns due to his back. 

 

2027

Braden Montgomery RF  Baldwin

?????  CF Baldwin

Baldwin LF

Vargas 3B  Bonemer

Colson SS  Bonemer

Meidroth or Antonacci  2B

Sosa 1B  Mead  (neither are close to ideal fits) 

Teel and Quero  catcher

Rotating DH  (Benintendi primary) 

 

Once again... only three positions that project out at above average MLB production: C SS RF. 

 

Not even sure that beats upside of Twins with Buxton, a healthy Royce Lewis, Jenkins, BLee, Keaschall, Jeffers, Clemens, Culpepper, Emmanuel Rodriguez,  Larnach and Wallner.  On paper it doesn't. 

Ofc their bullpen will be a mess and pitching in shambles when they trade Joe Ryan and/or Pablo Lopez with Z.Matthews M.Abel Taj Bradley behind them. 

 

 

 

 

Do you actually worry that far ahead about the position players and their abilities ?  You're not leaving room for surprises . It's boring in your crystal ball. I know the Sox reality with JR makes for a boring off season but player development in season  are always very controversial topics when it pits the hopeless against the hopeful. There's always enough for everybody to be right on at least 1 player per year since most prospects fail. So there will always be more hopeless people saying how they wish they were wrong but just playing the odds that failures far outnumber successes  so being a pessimist ensures being right more often and therefore a smarter fan. Being an Eeyore is good for ones ego I guess. 

[Chick Mercedes]

19 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Or at most, fine regular or backup 1B/3B.

I feel like Colson ends up at 3B longterm, with one of the middle infielders in the minors (with possible top pick at SS in 2026) at short. 

Don’t worry, Cholowsky incoming 😎

Edited November 21 by Chick Mercedes

[hogan873]

1 hour ago, JoeC said:

Depends on if he makes another revolutionary swing change.

If he does, John Schriffen will tell us all about it...ad nauseum.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Do you actually worry that far ahead about the position players and their abilities ?  You're not leaving room for surprises . It's boring in your crystal ball. I know the Sox reality with JR makes for a boring off season but player development in season  are always very controversial topics when it pits the hopeless against the hopeful. There's always enough for everybody to be right on at least 1 player per year since most prospects fail. So there will always be more hopeless people saying how they wish they were wrong but just playing the odds that failures far outnumber successes  so being a pessimist ensures being right more often and therefore a smarter fan. Being an Eeyore is good for ones ego I guess. 

The White Sox have plenty of history to support that skepticism.

Likewise, there’s not much joy buying into empty promises, either.

Even the most loyal and faithful fanbases…for example in St. Louis, can become cynical and jaded.

 

I’ll put it another way.  I’ve probably spent almost as much time following fantasy football and Iowa men’s and women’s basketball as watching the White Sox in the last year.  Over the last 2-3 weeks, the women’s team has lost months-long recruiting battles to Notre Dame (for an Iowa native) and to the University of Texas.  While it’s momentarily disappointing, Iowa has taken pride in turning 2-3 star recruits into stars, and it’s not the normal state of affairs to be bringing in McDonald’s All Americans by the handful.  One a every couple of decades is more like it.  Now two in consecutive seasons. Which is why having increasingly higher expectations and selling out every single game and having that type of home court atmosphere has been so enjoyable to experience despite missing out on two national championships in a row.

MEANWHILE, every single year watching Iowa football we’ve come to expect 7-5/8-4 and a secondary bowl game.  A national title just isn’t going to happen, and hasn’t since the 1950’s.  For men’s basketball, no Sweet 16 since 1998, but we still follow all the games faithfully.

For Oklahoma, my dad’s alma mater, it’s to compete for a national title every year despite waiting (1999 in Stoops’ second year) as long as Blue Jays fans almost since their last WS teams in 1992/93.

 

Expectations.  For the White Sox, it used to be life or death…like following the Dolphins in the 70s 80s and early 90s.  I remember one game down the stretch in 2008 (Carlos Gomez Game) that the Sox blew that made me upset for days afterward.  Yet most still watched the next day and every single game down throughout that excruciating pennant drive the last ten days or so where every game was season-altering.  Like a rollercoaster.

So I’ve sort of adopted the Chiefs (ten years living in KC when they couldn’t buy a playoff win to save their lives) and teams like the Royals Padres and now Dodgers just to maintain my love for baseball, despite my ten year old caring a lot more about Player Unknown Battleground or Minecraft.  I will never regret falling in love with the sport itself, but sometimes I question the rationality of having a favorite uncle that loved the Sox and his union beer and another less likable one who loved the Cubs and how that has impacted so many thousands of hours of my 56 years on earth, lol.

So I’d love to buy into the concept at least of the Sox providing that level of entertainment again, and there was Shane Smith the first 2-3 months and Colson in the second half, but man it was a drag to force myself to follow the team for 7 1/2 months these last 3-4 seasons.  Well, hopefully the Pope’s pride and optimism about the team can rub off on everyone who’s currently questioning their fandom the last decade or so of Sox baseball.

Finally, one of my best friends growing up in the Quad Cities who shared his White Sox fandom with me since 1983 and Tito Landrum/Jerry Dybzinsky gave up on them finally this year, and I perfectly understood where he was coming from and didn’t bother to argue or or attempt to convince him that things would eventually get better again.  
 

That’s just where things stand.

Edited November 21 by caulfield12

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

21 hours ago, Jake said:

I'd be surprised if Getz traded Vargas. Miguel is really a Getz type of player in my view and his big improvement is a feather in the cap for White Sox player development. Mead is an interesting piece but I wouldn't want to just hand him a starting spot at this point.

His big improvement? Huh. The guy put up numbers last year that were like 4% better than his projections when the Sox acquired him.

[Timmy U]

Vargas had a fascinating year. He struggled early, against rhp, and at home. It added up to a league average bat. On a contender, he would probably be the short side of a platoon, but there’s enough there to make you want to give him another year of development with Fuller. Also, I like his style of play. Personally, I would keep him, but I could see selling relatively high.

[Bob Sacamano]

Hold him, play him at 3B all next year. Then evaluate later.

Unless of course a team is buying high for some reason.

[WestEddy]

5 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Do you actually worry that far ahead about the position players and their abilities ?  You're not leaving room for surprises . It's boring in your crystal ball. I know the Sox reality with JR makes for a boring off season but player development in season  are always very controversial topics when it pits the hopeless against the hopeful. There's always enough for everybody to be right on at least 1 player per year since most prospects fail. So there will always be more hopeless people saying how they wish they were wrong but just playing the odds that failures far outnumber successes  so being a pessimist ensures being right more often and therefore a smarter fan. Being an Eeyore is good for ones ego I guess. 

I think he just likes to take a single sentence out of context, and then "disprove" it in some completely unrelated argument. 

Somehow, me saying that I don't think Vargas is going to be a superstar anchor of the next playoff team turns into "Nothing can ever be good, because there will always be another player in the past who had a better season..."

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

I think he just likes to take a single sentence out of context, and then "disprove" it in some completely unrelated argument. 

Somehow, me saying that I don't think Vargas is going to be a superstar anchor of the next playoff team turns into "Nothing can ever be good, because there will always be another player in the past who had a better season..."

Have you talked to Caulfield before?  This is who he has been for the better part of 20 years now.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

12 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I think he just likes to take a single sentence out of context, and then "disprove" it in some completely unrelated argument. 

Somehow, me saying that I don't think Vargas is going to be a superstar anchor of the next playoff team turns into "Nothing can ever be good, because there will always be another player in the past who had a better season..."

I was talking about the naysayers in general here more than I was Caulfield. Soxtalk in general does not chant "Development is not linear " over and over as a calming mantra. Future Sox was the one place in Soxtalk where more patient minds assembled until the rot invaded there too.  One person got pissed when it was me not a moderator who reminded them of that but mods overlook people who are constantly kissing their ass and on the same wavelength as they are.

Caulfield is so polite that I cant really be too hard on his wild theories like speculating Getz will give prospects he's acquired more chances than other prospects when theres been no indications so far of that. You'd think as an educator he'd be more CNN than TMZ.

If you hire a bunch of coaches and implement data as a major tool for development and strive to make decision making more collaborative as a collective hive then his ego shouldnt be a factor. I dont think its Utopia but its not a KW or Hahn "multiple championships" ego as far as I can tell atm.

I think higher draft picks will get more leeway than lower ones like resigning rather than non tendering Vaughn. That's fairly typical when you suck to give high draft picks a lot of rope.

[southsider2k5]

4 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

His big improvement? Huh. The guy put up numbers last year that were like 4% better than his projections when the Sox acquired him.

Better be careful here, the thought police will come for you.

[caulfield12]

42 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I was talking about the naysayers in general here more than I was Caulfield. Soxtalk in general does not chant "Development is not linear " over and over as a calming mantra. Future Sox was the one place in Soxtalk where more patient minds assembled until the rot invaded there too.  One person got pissed when it was me not a moderator who reminded them of that but mods overlook people who are constantly kissing their ass and on the same wavelength as they are.

Caulfield is so polite that I cant really be too hard on his wild theories like speculating Getz will give prospects he's acquired more chances than other prospects when theres been no indications so far of that. You'd think as an educator he'd be more CNN than TMZ.

If you hire a bunch of coaches and implement data as a major tool for development and strive to make decision making more collaborative as a collective hive then his ego shouldnt be a factor. I dont think its Utopia but its not a KW or Hahn "multiple championships" ego as far as I can tell atm.

I think higher draft picks will get more leeway than lower ones like resigning rather than non tendering Vaughn. That's fairly typical when you suck to give high draft picks a lot of rope.

CNN isn't objective either. 

They made their own bed beginning in 2016 by deciding to represent the opposition and it cost them significant viewership in the process. 

You're talking more the classic 80s and 90s version of CNN that a lot of people grew up with. 

Just having Scott Jennings on as a counter-panelist doesn't make them balanced, either. 

 

At any rate, retired educator. 

And teaching Chinese students how not to fall into stereotypical thinking when representing Japan India or Africa in Model United Nations isn't exactly a walk in the park.  IB programs supposedly inculcate that same balanced academic viewpoint and TOK  even teaches one how people think, literally Theory of Knowledge, but few take it seriously due to its only representing 1/45 points on the total grading scale.  Remember you're fighting against 80 years of propaganda and indoctrination... AI/ChatGPT decides for students and they don't even realize how subtle it is because anything to avoid actually writing critically in a second language is highly valued and MUCH harder to prove that its not genuine or authentic. 

You should try spending a week or two here in Okinawa and then going to convince the Chinese Taiwanese or Japanese about the legitimacy of the other side.  You won't get very far just by playing Devil's advocate like you decided to do 2-3 years ago around here.  That just makes your own positions more intransigent and resistant to change over time. 

Edited November 21 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

At any rate, this board would be a whole lot more civil if posters didn't attempt to insult each other in nearly every post. 

Ironically, our Real World educated Transportation Secretary just announced that if air travelers go back to the 1950s and 60s style of wearing suit and tie, that will make them more civil, somehow. 

Not when the root cause is political divisiveness, zero leg room, cattle calls, low budget service, alcohol overconsumption and the "me first" attitude typical when getting off to rush down the aisle ahead of others or even stowing a simple carry-on bag.  Every aspect of flying is now a high stakes battle. I can't begin to tell you how many times I've had to call a flight attendant in China to correct passengers deliberately sitting in the wrong seats with gf wife family... or someone leaned their tray table back all the way even during meal times or took off their socks or whatever. 

So dressing up won't suddenly change all those prevailing attitudes. 

Filibuster died an ignominious death around here years ago... but the politics instead just shifted to which side of the Getz/JR divide you've decided to take. 

[WhiteSox2023]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Have you talked to Caulfield before?  This is who he has been for the better part of 20 years now.

“To Thine Own Self Be True.”

[Jake]

8 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

His big improvement? Huh. The guy put up numbers last year that were like 4% better than his projections when the Sox acquired him.

I don't think it takes a lot of mental gymnastics to observe an improvement in Vargas's play last season. 

As a Dodger: .201/.294./364, 81 wRC+, -0.3 WAR
As a 2024 White Sox: .104/.217/.170, 17 wRC+, -1.2 WAR
As a 2025 White Sox: .234/.316/.401, 101 wRC+, 1.3 WAR
From April 23, 2025 until end of season: .252/.331/.438, 114 wRC+, 1.9 WAR

And underlying Statcast data has always supported the on-field results (both when it was bad and when it was good). Wouldn't surprise me if numerical projection systems liked Vargas at the time of acquisition because he put up great numbers in AAA and his MLB numbers to that point weren't horrible. The Soxtalk projections were not nearly so optimistic

[JoshPR]

On 11/20/2025 at 9:17 AM, southsider2k5 said:

https://www.mlb.com/amp/news/breaking-down-white-sox-four-big-offseason-decisions.html

 

Curtis Mead Sucks... You keep Mead over Vargas your fucking on Something.......

[Chick Mercedes]

“Patient minds”.

 

Jerry loves it.
 

If that’s how you want to fan, great. Everyone fans different. The impatient minds amongst fans and media are what makes underperformance in FOs sweat their underperformances however. Which seems a reasonable environment to foster for a major city professional sports franchise.

[Chick Mercedes]

On 11/21/2025 at 7:09 AM, Timmy U said:

Vargas had a fascinating year. He struggled early, against rhp, and at home. It added up to a league average bat. On a contender, he would probably be the short side of a platoon, but there’s enough there to make you want to give him another year of development with Fuller. Also, I like his style of play. Personally, I would keep him, but I could see selling relatively high.

JAGs like Vargas, all you need to ask is what can I get for him if he’s in demand. Keeping him or not keeping him is not really a big concern either way. The Sox are in transition. I’m not projecting him in any future lineup on purpose.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

If Vargas has actual trade value, I wouldn’t mind trading him. I think he could be useful but I’m not convinced he has enough power to be above average at either corner. But I find it hard to believe they would get something of significance for him.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

21 hours ago, Jake said:

I don't think it takes a lot of mental gymnastics to observe an improvement in Vargas's play last season. 

As a Dodger: .201/.294./364, 81 wRC+, -0.3 WAR
As a 2024 White Sox: .104/.217/.170, 17 wRC+, -1.2 WAR
As a 2025 White Sox: .234/.316/.401, 101 wRC+, 1.3 WAR
From April 23, 2025 until end of season: .252/.331/.438, 114 wRC+, 1.9 WAR

And underlying Statcast data has always supported the on-field results (both when it was bad and when it was good). Wouldn't surprise me if numerical projection systems liked Vargas at the time of acquisition because he put up great numbers in AAA and his MLB numbers to that point weren't horrible. The Soxtalk projections were not nearly so optimistic

In my opinion, improving a player means moving them off their trajectory/projected path. Vargas is very much in line with his projections when the Sox acquired him. Therefore, I hesitate to call that a vast improvement. 

Now if the Sox got/get something out of Curtis Mead, that would be a big improvement and deserving of credit.

[bmags]

Vargas is crushed by his defensive ability pushing his bat down, but he is a baseball player. I’d hate to give him up for what he’s worth, which is little. I don’t feel like he’s blocking anything for at least another year.

[WhiteSox2023]

3 hours ago, bmags said:

Vargas is crushed by his defensive ability pushing his bat down, but he is a baseball player. I’d hate to give him up for what he’s worth, which is little. I don’t feel like he’s blocking anything for at least another year.

This is probably the fairest assessment.  But if he breaks out this season, you deal him.  Sox aren’t winning anything in the years Vargas will be here until he hits free agency.

[greg775]

On 11/20/2025 at 8:17 AM, southsider2k5 said:

https://www.mlb.com/amp/news/breaking-down-white-sox-four-big-offseason-decisions.html

 

I laughed at the line "at this stage of the rebuild." LOL. We gonna be rebuilding forever at this rate of dumping players. Look folks, we don't have enough talent to consider the stage of our rebuild anything but EARLY.