HighHeat45 Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 Without hurt sluggers, Sox likely a lost cause July 24, 2004 BY JAY MARIOTTI SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST Advertisement If nothing else, "bone marrow edema'' is an original. Just when you thought every possible saboteur for a Chicago baseball team had been identified, now comes the diagnosis on Magglio Ordonez's left knee. The condition sounds pretty bleak as it is, but when coupled with the stress fracture in Frank Thomas' left ankle, well, let me supply an analogy for the White Sox. Yes, the Chicago skyline would continue to stand without the Sears Tower and John Hancock Building. But it wouldn't be world-class. Similarly, anyone who isn't petrified about the double-whammy losses of Ordonez and Thomas -- who have combined for 3,280 hits, 623 home runs, 2,142 RBI, nine All-Star Game berths and 14 .300 seasons in the major leagues -- deserves a wrecking ball in the head. How many years have passed since the Sox won a World Series? Eighty-seven? Sad to say, if Ordonez's outlook is as dark as the mood Friday evening at U.S. Cellular Field, add another click to baseball's second-longest world-championship-less streak. The sports world waxes miserably about the various curses of the Cubs, but when the Sox lose their two best sluggers as they're picking up midsummer steam, this franchise clearly has its own karmatic issues. "It breaks my heart,'' general manager Ken Williams said. "I just saw Magglio inside and he was close to having tears in his eyes. You can't really say much to him, other than to put your arm around him and give him a hug and wish him well.'' Though no one can spit the words out, the fear is that Ordonez and Thomas are out for the season. In the most realistic timetable, both would return in mid-September for two defining series against the division rival Minnesota Twins. But with Thomas' foot stuck in a cast and Ordonez on crutches and confined to a swimming exercise regimen, you're dreaming if you expect either player will return to optimum form this season. And if Thomonez isn't a vital part of the cause, I must break the unhappy news that the Sox probably won't be winning the American League Central, much less doing any postseason damage. "We don't have Frank, we don't have Magglio. We're going to have to make something happen,'' said manager Ozzie Guillen, defiant as usual. Specifically, what has to happen is another trade. Williams, the Red Bull energy drink of GMs, already has been impressive in his proactive pursuit of pitching ace Freddy Garcia and offensive threat Carl Everett, both of whom have contributed mightily to the club's recent success. But fun as the Sox have been in drawing bigger crowds to The Cell, I suspect the ever-precious payroll could become an impediment now. Despite the presence of Paul Konerko, Carlos Lee, Jose Valentin, Everett and the quickly progressing Aaron Rowand, the Sox urgently need a run-producing bat or two to beat the Twins. Yet Williams doesn't sound real eager to bring in a hitter anytime soon, which makes no sense, seeing how aggressive he has been so far. "I'm not going to sit here and kid you that we can replace Frank and Magglio. I don't know anyone who can, unless you have a $200 million payroll,'' Williams said. "I'm not sure if there's a quick fix out there. We have Carl Everett. We have Joe Borchard. There's really not a need for a reactionary move right now. It's a time to take a step back, see if something fits and, if not, don't upset the apple cart.'' Everett will be a big help. Borchard, the former Stanford quarterback who was tossed a whopper signing bonus in 2000, won't help much at all. If chairman Jerry Reinsdorf is as serious about winning a World Series in his late 60s as he claims, he will approve another major expenditure. A rental such as Carlos Beltran would turn the Sox into a legitimate pennant contender, but the Houston Astros may not trade him. Colorado's potent Larry Walker is available and ready to be a designated hitter, yet the Sox would have to pick up a good chunk of his $12.5 million salary next year. Could Williams possibly coax Carlos Delgado, who won't honor "God Bless America'' but loves the fortune he makes from our national pastime, to waive his no-trade clause in Toronto? And if Seattle releases Bret Boone to avoid paying an $8 million vesting option, shouldn't Williams swoop in? The trade deadline is a week from today. It might be fine to stand pat if Thomonez was gone only four more weeks, but the Sox have to assume they're finished for the season. At the very least, then, Williams should be considering the likes of Jeromy Burnitz, Steve Finley, Shea Hillenbrand and Danny Bautista. Maybe the status-quo offense is enough to get by the improved but pitching-weak Detroit Tigers, whom the Sox will play 18 more times. But as we saw last weekend in Oakland, the lineup is vulnerable to good pitching. Minnesota, which arrives for three games starting Monday, has good pitching. With a devilish tone, Williams hinted on the team's flagship station, WMVP-AM, that he has interest in the biggest of possible prizes. It's a mystery whether Arizona will relinquish Randy Johnson, and it's just as doubtful if the Sox can be the top bidders when their farm system isn't overflowing with prospects. But though his home park has yielded the most homers in the majors, might Williams prioritize pitching over hitting? If you believe in pipe dreams, Johnson, Garcia and Mark Buehrle would position the Sox for a World Series run. "I've always believed pitching is going to carry the day, anyway,'' Williams said. In a quirky twist, Ordonez's injury actually may help the Sox' chances of retaining him after this season. Projected to make more than $70 million in free agency next winter, he might be considered damaged goods in the marketplace. Now 30, he is losing millions by the month. If Magglio misses the rest of the season, maybe he'll accept a Sox offer loaded with deferred money, assuming Reinsdorf and Williams don't withdraw the offer because of the knee injury. But those are offseason issues. For now, the Sox must figure out how to overcome bone marrow edema. Sounds about as cruel as a 1919 game-fixing scandal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 What exactly does that dumbs*** expect KW to say? "We need to make a move RIGHT THIS SECOND, and we don't care about keeping any bargaining leverage. We need to let the other teams know that we are DESPERATE and will give ANYTHING to make a move! OH GOD, WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO???? PLEASE, ANYONE, MAKE A TRADE WITH US!!!" Mariotti is an imbecile. IMO, KW is handling it well - showing confidence in the guys on the team now while working the phones to try to imporve the club. He doesn't need to explain to that asswipe what he's attempting to do, and the Sox certainly don't need their potential moves broadcast or analyzed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 Wasn't he just on ESPN saying we need more coverage and than jumped on the bandwagon? Teeter totter city! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigNDfan80 Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 Can this idiot stop writing about the White Sox? He's such a terrible reporter/writer that I won't even read his articles past the first sentence. He needs to go report on the Cubs...let them worry about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 He was on the bandwagon for a whole 24 hours... :fyou MORON Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 Mariotti :headshake :fyou Don' know why we even read into what the Queen has to say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 Oh yeah, we won... again. Last night. But its over. What a moron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 Konerko - .286-24-64 Lee - .301-17-62 Everett Uribe finally looking like his April form last night Garcia Buehrle I think we'll survive. Cram it, Kotex boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 Losing Maggs and Thomas is huge. If the Twins lost their top two players, we'd be feeling pretty good about our chances. Fortunately it was to Maggs and Thomas not Buerhle or E-Lo. We have plenty of offense, this only lowers us a little bit. Still if they were in the lineup, I think we would have been pulling away from the Twins instead of treading water. We can display all the bravado about not needing our top two players, but don't kid ourselves, it's going to be a lot harder going deep in the playoffs without those two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 Mariotti is a dumb ass with his writing style, but he's saying the same thing in a totally prick way in that this team is NOT the same team without these two in the lineup, no more, no less. Injuries suck, injuries to your two best players REALLY sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinnesotaSoxFan Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flippedoutpunk Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 Goldmember is that you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxin' Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 :sleep Just don't even pay attention to this moron anymore. That's all you can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 Maybe losing Maggs lets us play more in line with Ozzie's style? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 I had no problem with what he wrote...... He was just basically saying that the Sox are likely in trouble without their two big guns. That follows conventional wisdom. Obviously Sox fans want to think their team could be the exception to the rule and it can....... but Mariotti isn't saying what a lot of people would initially think. I don't think that article carried any malice toward the Sox at all. Just speaking what has gone through a lot of people's minds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez Ghost (old) Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 I guess we just ought to give up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 We just have to look at the roster to determine how big of a deal it is. Who would have agreed with a trade of Maggs and Frank for Bochard and Gload? Would anyone have cheered and thought it increased our chances? We are fortunate that: 1. We started out well ahead, talent wise, with the rest of our division. 2. Uribe, Perez turned out better than expected. 3. Kong is well, Kong again. 4. Rowand is hitting lights out. I will feel much better going into September with Maggs and Thomas. Can we win our division without these guys? Yes. But a WS seems out of reach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaSoxDaSoxDaaaaaaaBears Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 This guy is an idiot, he almost makes me not want to watch around the horn. Obviously this is a big blow to our offense but if we remain poised and if MB and freddy keep up the great pitching and our young guys continue to improve we can easily win the division. A good benchmark of a good team is how they handle adversity. I dont hear sox fans going around whining about our injuries like our friends on the north side. Or we dont have players getting suspended and blowing up cuz theyre frustrated. All these guys have done so far is step up. Look what our pitching has done lately, look how Arow and Clee have stepped up. Sure it would be nice to aquire another good player but its not an absolute neccessity. It makes me proud at how well the sox have been doing lately. Keep up the good work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 This guy is an idiot, he almost makes me not want to watch around the horn. Obviously this is a big blow to our offense but if we remain poised and if MB and freddy keep up the great pitching and our young guys continue to improve we can easily win the division. A good benchmark of a good team is how they handle adversity. I dont hear sox fans going around whining about our injuries like our friends on the north side. Or we dont have players getting suspended and blowing up cuz theyre frustrated. All these guys have done so far is step up. Look what our pitching has done lately, look how Arow and Clee have stepped up. Sure it would be nice to aquire another good player but its not an absolute neccessity. It makes me proud at how well the sox have been doing lately. Keep up the good work. Welcome to Soxtalk .... and that was one HELLUVA POST. The Sox have to take a "No excuses allowed" approach. They need to band together as a team, overcome adversity and go out and win this thing. Kenny Williams, I believe, will do something to send a message to the team that the front office is not giving up and still expects to win. The consensus around here a month ago was that we needed an high OBP guy added to the lineup. Done! Aaron Rowand has filled that void. We've added a number 1 quality pitcher in Garcia and a solid veteran hitter in Everett. Excuses and curses are for Cub fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 I hate to say this, cuz I'm probably gonna get reamed... Can we just NOT pay attention to Mariotti? Who cares if he is a wind sock and a bandwagon jumper? Who cares that he constantly bashes the Sox? Personally, I could give a s*** what Mariotti says, because quite frankly, he's a dumbass. If you see a dumbass on the street, and he's yelling something stupid, you're not gonna stop and listen to him and wonder what the hell he's talking about, and you're not going to let it affect you, even if it offends you. Jay Mariotti has no effect on the White Sox(unless it is a positive one, where they go out to prove him wrong...if that's the case, let him write s*** about them all day long). Let him blow in the wind, and ignore him. This is a guy that could watch the Sox win game 4 of the World Series, completing a sweet and finishing some absolute domination, and he'd find someway to spin it negatively...they played too hard when they had clearly won, they should not have used Marte in the 8th when they were up 17-1 but rather Neal Cotts, they should have taken the starters out sooner, blah, blah, blah, who gives a s***. I say just ignore him, personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEANS Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 yup this guy is an assdart, he's all over the band wagon a week ago and now two of our studs go down and the team doesn't panic and actually steps up their play. Obviously he wanted us to start panicking and we didn't, not like some other chicago team, so he tries to start his own panic article. Just keep playing good baseball guys and we'll be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 That colm wasn't one of his better efforts in my opinion. What if KW had expressed panic and told Jay that the Sox were quickly looking to make a deal, etc. He'd probably write the column that KW had no confidence in the current guys and was ready to make a panic trade. I think the way the team is going, with Freddie being great and Aaron doing well and some others kicking ass, this time he coulda wrote a more reasonable look at the team without Maggs/Frank. We're drawing big crowds and playing pretty well. It could have been a more reasonable column rather than throwing out all those possible trades. I'd have picked maybe one trade and integrated that into a less maniacal column. In my case, I'd like to get Walker if we don't have to give up too much. Or just pick up Olerud. I'd give Jay a C- on that column. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaSoxDaSoxDaaaaaaaBears Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 I agree we should just ignore this damn yahoo. I just hate that this is what the whole nation sees on ATH . Cant they find anyone else from Chicago to talk on the show. However, i guess someone from the trib would be the same if not worse. Oh well, as long as we keep playing hard, win or lose, I dont care what that tool box says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 I really don’t give a f*** about what Marriotti has to say about this team. All I have to know about him is that he’s the biggest moron in Chicago. This team has lost it’s biggest hitters of the team and that may hurt come August and September. Yes, we still have 2 months of baseball, which is a lot. The winning streak we are in at the moment is good and all, but it may not last. Later we may be saying that we desperately need Big Frank and Maggs back in this lineup. Our current players need to step up big time. The only players that I see doing so are Rowand and Lee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 I had no problem with what he wrote...... He was just basically saying that the Sox are likely in trouble without their two big guns. That follows conventional wisdom. Obviously Sox fans want to think their team could be the exception to the rule and it can....... but Mariotti isn't saying what a lot of people would initially think. I don't think that article carried any malice toward the Sox at all. Just speaking what has gone through a lot of people's minds. That's exactly right. My morale is at a season low right now, despite the fact that we can advance to 10 games over .500 with a victory tonight. No Maggs? No Frank? Son of a b****..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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