SuperSteve Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 I'll take Freddy Garcia and Ben Davis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 I'll take Freddy Garcia and Ben Davis. The point being both would have been FA's had the deal not gone down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 I don't see the Sox being any better off now than before KW took the job. Not necessarily any worse, but no better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 The point being both would have been FA's had the deal not gone down. When we got Garcia, we were suppose to run away with the division. He was added for the push this season too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Socks Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 You are?? It would have been nice to get rid of Joe B instead of Reed no doubt, that being said this was still a good trade. It was a good trade....................... for Seattle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Socks Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 We traded someone who was untouchable just a few months earlier. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see two of our top three prospects traded in the off season. (Anderson , Sweeney, B-Mac). I don't think Kenny can resist. The Reed trade was utterly stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 Wish Reed nothing but the best. I definately wish he was in the org and he's gonna be a good ball player. Whether he'll be great, I don't know, but he'll be at the very worse a good grinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 We traded someone who was untouchable just a few months earlier. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see two of our top three prospects traded in the off season. (Anderson , Sweeney, B-Mac). I don't think Kenny can resist. The Reed trade was utterly stupid. And that's exactly why I think our organization is a lot worse now than it was before the season. Before the season, we still had hope that Crede, Olivo, Bochard, Reed, Rauch, and Honel could be a nucleus for the team in like 6 years (of course not all these guys would pan out). KW's philosophy of win now just doesnt work well when you can't develop any prospects from your system, and the guys that you trade for are not nearly as good as he believes. BTW, Contreras has an ERA over 6 for the Sox so far, and Garcia hasn't exactly been lights-out for the Sox this year. The Mariners really are sitting pretty getting Reed and Olivo in that deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 I've been following him since he first came up against the Red Sox and all I can say is, professional hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 FYI: Freddy Garcia pitching pretty well for Sox. Â As we've seen, good pitchers are harder to come by than good outfielders. I'd rather have Freddy. As far as being FA's, that's true, but IMO trading for Freddy gave the Sox a MUCH better chance of locking him in long-term than trying to lure him here in the offseason. Â I thought all along that Reed will be a good player for them, as will Olivo, but the Sox need starting pitching more than they needed an outfielder. Unfortunately, it wasn't Bonus Baby to go to Seattle, but life goes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 I think we are a way worse organization now than started the season. Contreras looks no more consistently reliable than Jon. We got no middle relief where we thought we'd be OK there. We got no catcher when we had one in Olivo. We now have a big hole at ss cause Jose appears finished. We still got nobody at 2B to replace Ray Ray's days, assuming Uribe is new ss. I don't believe Willie is the answer. We got no Maggs and will have to weaken our team to acquire a suitable replacement via trade since Dork won't sign anybody. We remain very slow on the basepaths. Â Our best hitter, Paulie, appears to be underrated by everybody and subject of inexplicable trade rumors even though he has more homers than any player in a single season in Sox history. Â I say bring in Pudge Fisk as the replacement for Harold as bench coach. Pudge will kick some ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 I say bring in Pudge Fisk as the replacement for Harold as bench coach. Pudge will kick some ass. During one of my wood-bat league games a few years back, Pudge Fisk was actually our bench-coach for a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 We're going to be dog-cussing KW for the Reed trade 10 years from now. Â Simply flat-out stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 I still remember going online after the Sox/Cubs game the day the trade was made, and I thought it was a joke. Honestly, it felt like someone had kicked me in the stomach. On one hand, it sucks that Frank and Ordonez got hurt cause we couldnt compete for the division. On the other hand though, it sucks that our front office is going to escape this disaster of a season by blaming it on the injuries. It would have been great to see how things would have went. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 Our best hitter, Paulie, appears to be underrated by everybody and subject of inexplicable trade rumors even though he has more homers than any player in a single season in Sox history. your kidding right thomas, belle and mags all have hit more homers than him, ill take it you are a new sox fan? but i agree i dont want to trade him. plus i really think the sox would have won had it not been for mags and thomas getting hurt, showiser didnt help either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 your kidding right thomas, belle and mags all have hit more homers than him, ill take it you are a new sox fan? but i agree i dont want to trade him. plus i really think the sox would have won had it not been for mags and thomas getting hurt, showiser didnt help either. He said single season and Magglio has never hit 40 so Konerko does have more HR in a single season then Maggs ever has. However, Belle had 49 for the Sox one year and Thomas has a career high of 43 so Konerko hasn't caught him yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 your kidding right thomas, belle and mags all have hit more homers than him, ill take it you are a new sox fan? but i agree i dont want to trade him. plus i really think the sox would have won had it not been for mags and thomas getting hurt, showiser didnt help either. I'll take you're a new Sox fan, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 I'll take you're a new Sox fan, right? Maybe he was high when he wrote that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yossarian Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 I'll take Freddy Garcia and Ben Davis. Garcia has hardly been ace like and as far as Davis goes, he's come crashing down to earth. Most trades take a couple of years to evaluate but this one shows signs of possibly being the modern day version of Lou Brock for Ernie Broglio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 We traded someone who was untouchable just a few months earlier. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see two of our top three prospects traded in the off season. (Anderson , Sweeney, B-Mac). I don't think Kenny can resist. The Reed trade was utterly stupid. My God, some of you people are so damn incredibly knee-jerk reactionary.  First of all, anyone who thinks Garcia would've just automatically signed here as a free agent this winter is misguided. He was going to be traded, period. Whatever team traded for him made certain they'd be able to lock him up for at least a 3 year deal. Why do you think he signed the 3 year deal with the Sox shortly after the trade? The Sox did their homework and knew they'd be able to sign him.  Anywhere he would've been traded ... namely Chicago or New York ... a contract extension would have been signed. Seattle had zero intention of letting him walk as a free agent, they were going to trade him.  If the Yankees had gotten Garcia and it came out the Sox were the bridesmaid, a lot of you same people would be calling for William's head, saying he couldn't get a deal done.  In addition, many of you think the Sox should be able to go ahead and trade their underachieving junk for some other team's stud players. Umm, reality check. It doesn't work that way. Seattle wanted a young catcher, and Reed.  Meanwhile, some of you guys look at Jeremy Reed's 31 at bats in September for a team that has nothing to play for, and trash the trade. Miguel Olivo is hitting just about the same as Ben Davis, in the .230's. He's also struck out 79 times. Conventiently, though, Olivo is not mentioned ... or at least until he gets three hits in a game ... whereupon somebody else will chime in and say with 20/20 hindsight how stupid the trade was. The shortstop in the trade, Morse, had exactly zero stolen bases for Seattle's AA team. Just the kind of guy we want for our small ball team, right 2nd guessers?  It is real easy to sit here and say it should've been Olivo and Crede instead of Olivo and Reed. Who exactly would've played 3rd base full time? Don't say Uribe, he was filling in all over the infield. I will argue that Crede has more value among baseball people than does Reed. 3rd basemen are tougher to come by than doubles hitters.  I'm not knocking Reed or his potential, but get real you people. You got a good #2 pitcher locked up for 3 years and you've got two prospects coming up in Anderson and Sweeney who have similar talent to Reed.  I don't blame Williams for that trade at all, not one bit. He has done some things wrong, but that trade was not one of them.  Oh, and P.S. - For the last time, it was not a question of Reed or Borchard. Seattle did not want Borchard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 Oh, and P.S. - For the last time, it was not a question of Reed or Borchard. Seattle did not want Borchard. that seems to make sense, but there were reports in the newspaper that said otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 that seems to make sense, but there were reports in the newspaper that said otherwise. That was simply speculation in the newspapers, suggesting who might be traded. Borchard's name was bandied about all over the place by the papers. My info comes from a family member in Seattle who has a good friend in their front office. Â Doesn't make what I said better info, but Seattle wanted a contact hitter and were not going to trade Garcia until they got what they wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 That was simply speculation in the newspapers, suggesting who might be traded. Borchard's name was bandied about all over the place by the papers. My info comes from a family member in Seattle who has a good friend in their front office. Doesn't make what I said better info, but Seattle wanted a contact hitter and were not going to trade Garcia until they got what they wanted. Crede is a contact hitter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 Crede is a contact hitter? Reed is a contact hitter. Seattle would not make the deal with the Sox unless Reed was included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 Reed is a contact hitter. Seattle would not make the deal with the Sox unless Reed was included. I thought initially Seattle asked for Crede and Olivo, but KW wouldn't give up 2 ML starters. So he proposed Reed or Borchard, instead. You're telling me that all those stories were hooey, that Seattle was demanding Reed all along? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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