Interesting names that have cleared waivers..

[Gene Honda Civic]

So, what would it take for us to give the Reds for Griffey??

3+ prospects who aren't on the 40-man roster.

 

Gio/Young/Liotta/Sweeney/Anderson(though he's too close to the show and they have a logjam at OF)/

[nitetrain8601]

3+ prospects who aren't on the 40-man roster.

 

Gio/Young/Liotta/Sweeney/Anderson(though he's too close to the show and they have a logjam at OF)/

 

Without Griffey and a possible Dunn move to 1B, I think they would be fine. They probably would want a pitcher though. I'd give up Liotta.

[JUGGERNAUT]

So just between thetwo NYC teams that was about 30 players that got listed... Yeah, I guess everyone doesn't hit waivers :rolly

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Specifically 17 on the Mets & 9 on the NYY$ or 23 players on their 25 man roster, & 3 others. Forget most. That's not even a majority of their ML 40 man rosters.

 

Pedro & Beltran available? Scratching my head on that one. If we assume the request for ML waivers on them went in on Aug 3rd, then it would not have been reported to MLBPA until this past Friday that they cleared waivers. My guess is that's the entity leaking this "confidential" information. The Mets GM might have been hedging his bets on the team. On Aug 3rd if they go on & lose 10 straight they fall out of contention. What would Pedro &/or Beltran be worth to BOS, ANA, & NYY$? Well that didn't happen & now they are w/in 3 gms of the WC. There won't even be a small rumor of them being available while the Mets remain in contention.

 

Phillips statement that he put in 150 claims on players on ML waivers seems reasonable. After all using the Mets & NYY$'s as a sample that's nearly 350 players league-wide. Maybe not most but it sure is a LOT.

Edited August 14, 2005 by JUGGERNAUT

[southsider2k5]

Specifically 17 on the Mets & 9 on the NYY$ or 23 players.  Forget most.  That's not even a majority of their ML 40 man rosters. 

 

17+9=23? Nice math. Now things really make sense. In case you weren't listening today, Hawk also states that every player goes onto waivers. DJ asked him if he did it himself while he was a GM, and he stated matter of a factly that he did. Hawk went on to talk about using it to guage what was out there in respect to his players.

 

Face it, you were wrong.

[JUGGERNAUT]

17+9=23?  Nice math.  Now things really make sense.  In case you weren't listening today, Hawk also states that every player goes onto waivers.  DJ asked him if he did it himself while he was a GM, and he stated matter of a factly that he did.  Hawk went on to talk about using it to guage what was out there in respect to his players.

 

Face it, you were wrong.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nice of you to jump on the post before I had finished editing it.

 

What I meant to say is that 23 players were on their 25 man rosters & 3 were not.

 

Hawk was a horrible GM so I wouldn't say his actions would exemplify typical GM behavior. If Beane says it I would treat it as Gospel.

Edited August 15, 2005 by JUGGERNAUT

[southsider2k5]

It was clearly I was editing the post at the time, but you're so devoted to this cause that you had to jump on the typo.  What I meant to say is that 23 players were on the 25 man roster & 3 more were not.

 

Potatoe potato... you were wrong, admit it.

[Spiff]

Would you want to assume Pedro and/or Beltran's contract? I wouldn't. f***, I don't feel like bailing Omar Minaya out of his mess.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Potatoe potato... you were wrong, admit it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

When a good GM like Beane says it I will admit wholeheartedly that I was wrong.

[3E8]

Hawk was a horrible GM so I wouldn't say his actions would exemplify typical GM behavior.

He wasn't horrible.

[southsider2k5]

When a good GM like Beane says it I will admit wholeheartedly that I was wrong.

 

And you wonder why no one takes anything you post seriously. You are flat out wrong. I have documented three sources and you are still hanging to whatever pathetic strings that you can manage. Crap like this is exactly why you have zero credibility as a poster here. Keep hiding in your fallout shelter, meanwhile everyone else is laughing at you.

 

He wasn't horrible.

 

The Hawk was one of the worst GMs ever. He is great as an announcer, and was solid as a ballplayer, but he was a HUGE f***up as a GM.

[Hatchetman]

he wasn't that bad. fired larussa, which was a mistake. picked up bonilla as a rule 5 and dealt him for deleon.

[3E8]

The Hawk was one of the worst GMs ever.  He is great as an announcer, and was solid as a ballplayer, but he was a HUGE f***up as a GM.

A HUGE f***up? What are you talking about? The worst thing was his amateur draft. Can you tell me what he did that made him one of the worst GM's ever? I bet you can't.

[Adam G]

Would you want to assume Pedro and/or Beltran's contract? I wouldn't.  f***, I don't feel like bailing Omar Minaya out of his mess.

I'd love to have a true #1 pitcher with playoff experience and a ring like Pedro. They dont come cheap. He nearly threw the first no hitter in Mets' history today.

[spiderman]

I'd love to have a true #1 pitcher with playoff experience and a ring like Pedro.  They dont come cheap.  He nearly threw the first no hitter in Mets' history today.

 

I think the Mets would pull back their waiver claims on both both Beltran and Martinez....

[Adam G]

I think the Mets would pull back their waiver claims on both both Beltran and Martinez....

Probably. But I'd still love to have him.

[dmbjeff]

just because beltran, pedro cleared waivers, dosent mean that the mets will actually trade them......they are just eligible to be traded, but the mets are still alive, so why would they trade either.

[southsider2k5]

A HUGE f***up?  What are you talking about?  The worst thing was his amateur draft.  Can you tell me what he did that made him one of the worst GM's ever?  I bet you can't.

 

Firing a HOF manager sure is a good start, but I am taking it you don't remember things like his infamous 12 for 6 player deal he tried to work with Texas, or the horrible drafts that he made, or the multiple 90 loss seasons, the complete lack of free agency signings...

 

Hawk had no clue how to be a GM.

[southsider2k5]

When a good GM like Beane says it I will admit wholeheartedly that I was wrong.

 

LMFAO... You will never admit you are wrong. You don't have the self-respect or the self-confidence to ever do so. Meanwhile every single person knows you are wrong, and that is enough for me. You can go ahead and crawl back into your cave now.

[Dick Allen]

And you wonder why no one takes anything you post seriously.  You are flat out wrong.  I have documented three sources and you are still hanging to whatever pathetic strings that you can manage.  Crap like this is exactly why you have zero credibility as a poster here.  Keep hiding in your fallout shelter, meanwhile everyone else is laughing at you.

The Hawk was one of the worst GMs ever.  He is great as an announcer, and was solid as a ballplayer, but he was a HUGE f***up as a GM.

Hawk wasn't that terrible of a GM. He only was one for the 1986 season. The draft sucked, but a lot of White Sox drafts have sucked. In fact, in 1985, Roland Hemond's last year as GM, they drafted Kurt Brown with their first round pick. Barry Bonds was then selected by Pittsburgh. He traded Britt Burns to the Yankees, and he never pitched again. Picked up Bonilla in the Rule 5, traded him for Jose DeLeon, who eventually was traded for Lance Johnson. He traded for Ivan Calderon who was productive for the Sox and eventually was traded for Tim Raines. As far as LaRussa, I don't think the White Sox would have been any better the years since his firing with him at the helm than they were with all who have followed him.

[JUGGERNAUT]

None of your three sources support the belief that "most" of ML players are put on waivers in August. Most is normally considered 90% & above. Even Phillips testimony of claiming 150 players doesn't help.

 

I believe Hawk said "most" are involved in waivers thru the course of the entire season. That's a different story & one that can be checked against.

All other waivers are reported upon because they involve a change in status of the player. So it's reasonable to check the transaction logs & check how often waiver appears.

 

As for the Newsday report that puts Aug in the 350-400 range. Pedro & Beltran cleared. They were not pulled back.

 

But as to the belief they just put them out there to feel interest I have this reference on the Pirates:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05227/554134.stm

Littlefield said the Pirates have placed players on waivers this month for the purpose of trading them, but he would not divulge specifics.

 

Requesting ML waivers on a player implies the team is open to trading that player. That's why they were created in the first place.

[Texsox]

Juggs, Juggs, Juggs :headshake

 

After you both made your points, I award the debate to Southsider. While neither side was 100% correct, he is closer than you.

 

Thanks for playing. Please play again. I know y'all will.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Most? The numbers don't even come close.

 

The Philips thread indicates every team can request ML waivers on as many as 7 players per business day. There was plenty of time for both the Mets & NYY$ to request ML waivers on most of their players prior to the Newsday column being written. But that clearly wasn't the case. It wasn't even 1/2.

 

Breakdown of "waiver" occurences in MLB transaction logs from Aug 2005-Aug 2004:

 

2005

Aug 6

Jul 7

Jun 13

May 10

Apr 13

Mar 13

Feb 3

Jan 2

 

2004

Dec 8

Nov 5

Oct 16

Sep 12

Aug 11

 

Notes:

All OR & UR waiver action is recorded. This includes players clearing waivers for outright assignments or unconditional release. I think this is a case where non mathematician people related to baseball are just talking off the top of their head w/out looking at the numbers. :rolly

 

Likewise I think it would be rare to even find one month where 20 or more transactions are related to waivers.

Edited August 15, 2005 by JUGGERNAUT

[southsider2k5]

Most?  The numbers don't even come close. 

 

The Philips thread indicates every team can request ML waivers on as many as 7 players per business day.  There was plenty of time for both the Mets & NYY$ to request ML waivers on most of their players prior to the Newsday column being written. But that clearly wasn't the case.  It wasn't even 1/2. 

 

Breakdown of "waiver" occurences in MLB transaction logs from Aug 2005-Aug 2004:

 

2005

Aug 6

Jul 7

Jun  13

May 10

Apr 13

Mar 13

Feb 3

Jan 2

 

2004

Dec 8

Nov 5

Oct 16

Sep 12

Aug 11

 

Notes:

All OR & UR waiver action is recorded.  This includes players clearing waivers for outright assignments or unconditional release.  I think this is a case where non mathematician people related to baseball are just talking off the top of their head w/out looking at the numbers.  :rolly

 

Likewise I think it would be rare to even find one month where 20 or more transactions are related to waivers.

 

Let me guess, it depends on what your definition of "is" is, right Bill? Keep on spinning things until you can figure out a way to be right in your own head. In the meantime, everyone else knows the truth. Anymore the replies are just hilarious.

[3E8]

Firing a HOF manager sure is a good start, but I am taking it you don't remember things like his infamous 12 for 6 player deal he tried to work with Texas, or the horrible drafts that he made, or the multiple 90 loss seasons, the complete lack of free agency signings...

 

Hawk had no clue how to be a GM.

I said his amateur draft was not great, but several good GM's have had picks that never pan out. Plus you are blaming him for 90 loss seasons that aren't really his fault. Both our pitching and offense was on the slide, not Hawk's doing, he inhereted this problem. He did a nice job to patch the team up with better arms.

 

The Texas deal got us a good relief pitcher in Schmidt and a decent infielder in Tolleson. We lost Correa who pitched average for the one year he lasted in the big leagues, and we lost Fletcher who was blocked by Ozzie.

 

No free agent signings? George Foster (maybe he shouldn't count), Steve Carlton, and Craig Grebeck.

 

Hawk also was responsible for netting Lance Johnson and Ivan Calderon while giving up marginal talent.

 

He had a clue, and wasn't horrible.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Let me guess, it depends on what your definition of "is" is, right Bill?  Keep on spinning things until you can figure out a way to be right in your own head.  In the meantime, everyone else knows the truth.  Anymore the replies are just hilarious.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There's nothing to spin. The numbers don't lie. People on the other hand often tend to exagerate. It's human nature