DBAHO Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 QUOTE(YASNY @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 08:38 PM) I know what they were, and what they are. I also know that they were as highly regarded around here as these two we traded today, if not more so. I disagree on that, but that's JMHO. Gio's a top 5 prospect in this organization, Haigwood would be pushing it after the season he had. I don't think Diaz or Munoz would have been close to getting there at any point in their White Sox minor league career, they'd be scraping around the top 10 mark. But of course if the Sox actually handled Diaz like they did with B-Mac, we could have a different story with him today also. But I think they've definitely learned their lesson in terms of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 For all of you who hate this trade I have some names for you... Josh Stewart, Felix Diaz, Arnie Munoz.... At one time or another all stud pitchers this site went gaga over... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> All I personally remember about those guys was hoping that one of them could be a decent fifth starter. The days of Danny Wright and Scott Schoeneweis probably lowered everyone's expectations but none of those pitchers were expected to be anything better than fifth starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 03:43 AM) I disagree on that, but that's JMHO. Gio's a top 5 prospect in this organization, Haigwood would be pushing it after the season he had. I don't think Diaz or Munoz would have been close to getting there at any point in their White Sox minor league career, they'd be scraping around the top 10 mark. But of course if the Sox actually handled Diaz like they did with B-Mac, we could have a different story with him today also. But I think they've definitely learned their lesson in terms of that. There were a few doubters in regard to Munoz and Diaz, but there were a LOT of people that thought they were gonna be "da s***". You, I'm sure, weren't one of them, but there were plenty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 QUOTE(FlaCWS @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 03:13 AM) Absolutely not. But Thome is on the downside of his career and strikes out way too much for my taste. On top of that he is below-average defensively. If this was 3-4 years ago, maybe. Also, how does this affect payroll? I'd rather see them spend money to keep Konerko or wrap up Buehrle or Garland long-term. If those things don't happen because we spent money on Thome, that will suck. He is on the downside of his career, but it's the career of one of the best hitters of this era, which (and I'm a big Rowand fan) is something Crash will never be. He does strike out a lot, but so does Aaron -- 116 times in 2005. But Thome will walk 100+ times in a season, Aaron maybe 30-40. Last season, which was just abysmal, he managed to outwalk Crash by 13 bbs, in 400 fewer plate appearances. His obp exceeded Pods' obp despite hitting .207, 60 or 70 points lower than what we should expect when he doesn't have bad tendinitis in his elbow. He's not the Thome of 5 years ago, but the guy can still flat out hit. If anything, it helps our payroll. It's a huge bat cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg The Bull Luzinski Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 QUOTE(Jeckle2000 @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 04:10 AM) For all of you who hate this trade I have some names for you... Josh Stewart, Felix Diaz, Arnie Munoz.... At one time or another all stud pitchers this site went gaga over... Add Royce Ring to the "Where are they now" White Sox Prospect list too. Seems not to fit the closer mold for the Mets these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 Now that I've had a chance to really think about and digest this deal, I love it. I'm gonna miss Arow badly, but a healthy Thome, and I have no reason to believe he won't be healthy, unless something freakish happens, is a guaranteed bet to hit 40+ HR and knock in anywhere from 100-120 RBI. The OBP he's sported over the years is sick. And like many already knew, he's a wonderful guy to have in that clubhouse. Welcome to Chicago, Mr. Thome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierSox Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 QUOTE(Jordan4life_2005 @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 01:45 PM) Now that I've had a chance to really think about and digest this deal, I love it. I'm gonna miss Arow badly, but a healthy Thome, and I have no reason to believe he won't be healthy, unless something freakish happens, is a guaranteed bet to hit 40+ HR and knock in anywhere from 100-120 RBI. The OBP he's sported over the years is sick. And like many already knew, he's a wonderful guy to have in that clubhouse. Welcome to Chicago, Mr. Thome! I agree. At worst he could put up similiar numbers to Everett but if hes 100% healthy he will put up numbers equal to that of Konerko. Its a very low risk trade especially considering were stocked with young outfielders. Now it would be huge to resign Konerko. That would be a potential 80 HRs from the 3 & 4 slot. I think fans are going to get past losing Rowand pretty quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 I have mixed feelings about it. Boy do we have flexability though considering teams like Florida need young OF'ers and we have a ton of them. Of course some can be dealt better than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 04:10 PM) On Haigwood and Gonzalez's inclusion--Williams better be preparing himself to structure long term deals for Garland and Contreras (dependent on this season). Don't expect production from the minors in the pitching department for quite awhile. That's ok...who on the staff was drafted by the Sox anyway. The Sox have been fortunate enough to pull young talent out of trades. Plus...they drafted 31 pitchers in last years draft and tons in the years before. Let's see how guys like Broadway and Liotta pan out before we do the "whoa is us" cry for our arm talent on the farm. Hell...Buerhle was drafted in the friggin 38th round...so sometimes...ya never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 you mean the sky isnt falling chicken little? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeman89 Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 i absolutley LOVE this trade right now. i mean, if you look at the K's rowand had last year (i think 113) about 50 less than thome's average would be for a 162 game season (164), but thome puts up 30 more home runs and 50 more RBI than rowand, and he has a higher career BA, and that obp really looks good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 I'm still a little steamed about losing Gonzalez, but I think that's what I'm primarily mad about. Heading into the offseason, I think I was expecting Rowand to be traded. He was in his prime years and fairly cheap, and was sought after by many, many organizations (or so I've read). He was also expendable, because the Sox have two CF replacements waiting in the wings (one for '06 in Anderson, the other for '07 in Young). Unfortunately, I'm taking this harder than I'd have thought. It's sad to hear the Rowand interviews now, because he was such a fun guy to watch play the game. But, I think I'm more mad about losing Gonzalez. I really wish Kenny would have... a.)Traded Marte rather than the prospects (or, rather than Gio -- if that was a possibility). b.)Traded a lesser prospect and ate more of the contract (say -- substitute Tracey for Gonzalez and take on $9 million per year) We're better for 2006, which, I suppose, I should be happy about. But -- I'm not. I was really liking what was going on in the Sox farm system -- they had four strong prospect starters between AA and high-A in Broadway, Gonzalez, Haigwood, and (one step below) Liotta. That's been sliced in half, now. Then again, if Konerko doesn't sign, we'll probably offer him arbitration, and get two draft picks. Time to start hoping for a pitching heavy draft, I suppose... Anyways -- I guess it becomes more vital now for Garland to sign a long-term deal. We're going to need Buehrle, McCarthy, and him to carry this staff for the next five-seven years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 I will go on record as saying that Gio doesn't ever become any better then a 5th starter... and he'll be out of baseball by the time he's 30, either by injury or just disappointment... ...and if he wins 300 games... well good for him, fact is that this team needs to win now... not in 2008 when he might just be ready to enter the rotation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 QUOTE(Jeckle2000 @ Nov 25, 2005 -> 08:46 PM) I will go on record as saying that Gio doesn't ever become any better then a 5th starter... and he'll be out of baseball by the time he's 30, either by injury or just disappointment... Ok can you tell me some logic why for this statement? Has he done anything in the minors so far that will suggest this? No. This is what John Sickels said about him (he was rated 2005 pre-season as our #2 prospect); 2) Gio Gonzalez, LHP Went 5-3, 1.87 in 10 starts for Kannapolis, 84/22 K/BB in 58 innings, then 8-3, 3.56 in 13 starts for Winston-Salem, 79/25 K/BB in 73 innings. An excellent prospect who deserves more attention. He's only 19, yet he's already in high A ball and pitching well. And if you read the various blurbs on the net about him..... but from the looks of it, Gonzalez has the chance to be a front-of-the-rotation starter, not just a middle-of-the-rotation starter. It's not easy to find front-of-the-rotation starters, especially if you have to develop them (the Yankees can just let others develop them and they then pay for them left and right at will. The White Sox can't do that - that's why building up through their farm system is that important!) Still, I don't know if I would have included Gonzalez in the deal; I probably would have tried to get the Phillies to take one or even two other pitching prospects over Gonzalez, who, arguably, could be their #1 pitching prospect (at least in terms of potential and "stuff.") If you don't agree with Gonzalez being the #1 White Sox pitching prospect in terms of potential and "stuff," who would you label as their #1 pitching prospect? (McCarthy doesn't count because he's already reached the Majors, even if he is still technically a "rookie.") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 Why don't you ask the Giants about Felix Diaz... A top prospect... projected to be a #2 starter... traded for Lofton... I imagine alot of Giants fans were upset at the time too.. Hmm... I wonder how that one worked out for them... I'm sorry but until he does something at a level higher then AAA I really don't much care what the "experts" have to say... I mean you do realize these are the same people who predicted us to be in 4th place last year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 QUOTE(Jeckle2000 @ Nov 25, 2005 -> 09:26 PM) Why don't you ask the Giants about Felix Diaz... A top prospect... projected to be a #2 starter... traded for Lofton... I imagine alot of Giants fans were upset at the time too.. Hmm... I wonder how that one worked out for them... I'm sorry but until he does something at a level higher then AAA I really don't much care what the "experts" have to say... I mean you do realize these are the same people who predicted us to be in 4th place last year... Felix Diaz? Remember the Sox handled him terribly, but he was never predicted to be a #2 starter. He was 5th behind Foppert, Bonser, Ainsworth and Williams in terms of the Giants starting pitcher prospects. And remember you don't have to be absolutely successful in AAA to make it in the majors, and it's very hard for pitchers to do so in Charlotte because it's such a hitter's paradise. As as for being able to do something higher than AAA, I've got 2 words for you if you go back in time before the 2005 season. Brandon McCarthy. 2004 - Low A - 8-5, 3.64 ERA (113/21 K/BB ratio) High A - 6-0, 2.08 ERA (60/3 K/BB ratio) AA - 3-1, 3.46 ERA (29/6 K/BB ratio) He turned out alright didn't he. And remember B-Mac put up those low and high A numbers when he was 21. Gio did that this season, when he was 19. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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