Jon Garland signs a 3 year extension

[bmags]

Some of you are COMPLETELY ignoring what Kenny has done & what he was rumored to be doing with young, cheap, starters.  Perhaps the Garland for Eckstein trade rumor rings a bell?  Kenny has shown no hesitancy at all to trading young cheap pitchers if he can get the PLAYER he wants.

 

Is Crawford that player?  Time will tell.  Ozzie made a proclamation before the confetti has been swept away from the celebration:  I want a new #2 hitter to take the pressure off Pods & to move up to #1 when Pods can't play.  Uribe is not a proven player to fill that role.

 

garland for erstadt?

[beck72]

Vasquez is a stuff type pitcher like Conteras.  However Vasquez is under control for a few years.  Conteras's value has never been so high.  He can be a number 1 type pitcher.  The Dodgers would love a guy like this that can immediately go to the front of their rotation.

Vazquez also has value, esp. with his being under contract for a few yrs.

[ZoomSlowik]

Some of you are COMPLETELY ignoring what Kenny has done & what he was rumored to be doing with young, cheap, starters.  Perhaps the Garland for Eckstein trade rumor rings a bell?  Kenny has shown no hesitancy at all to trading young cheap pitchers if he can get the PLAYER he wants.

 

Is Crawford that player?  Time will tell.  Ozzie made a proclamation before the confetti has been swept away from the celebration:  I want a new #2 hitter to take the pressure off Pods & to move up to #1 when Pods can't play.  Uribe is not a proven player to fill that role.

 

The problem is that said deal didn't happen, thank God (although I'm pretty sure it was Erstad). Did he trade Mark? Jon? Crede? Paulie? Brandon? Obviously not. Until this year he hadn't touched his top couple of prospects and let them develop. Reed, Gio, and Young were the only ones with any serious promise that we traded. Reed was the only one that was even close to major league ready, and he was considered expendable because of our major league OF's and the other prospects we had. The vast majority of the prospects he dealt were not major league ready, and certainly not major league ready starting pitchers. He could have had some solid players that would have helped us in the past two years for B-Mac, and he didn't do it. That should tell you something.

[Chisoxrd5]

Yuk, yuk, yuk... 

 

Dont think I would actually provide insight into a thread like this...You must have expected something along those lines.

 

Anyways, Here is my analysis for those on the edge of their seats wondering "I'm not sure what my opinion of the contract is until I hear what rd5 has to say" ...

 

Garland for this price is a pretty good deal after seeing the other contracts. He's not going to be traded, but I am now fairly certain that Contreras is on the trading block. I can't see the Sox starting the season with six starters and a lack of relievers, KW will make a move...jmo of course

 

Alright...back to regularally scheduled ranting and raving

[beck72]

Am I the only one who thinks that Kenny should wait until July before considering more trades?  Why trade one of your accomplished, seasoned vets and throw the relatively inexperienced McCarthy in the #5 spot?  Can't we wait until next winter (or at least July) before dumping Contreras?

 

BMac has much more experience than most rookie SP's. He's proved he can adapt after getting knocked around. And he's proven he can handle disappointments and adversity [not being on the playoff roster though he was one of the top pitchers in Sept] with major league class

 

If the sox had a young SP prospect ready in AAA to come in should someone get hurt, then a trade of Jose or Vazquez would be fine. The sox should be able to get a top SP prospect in a trade of one of these two guys

[Balance]

Well, the signing is a pleasant surprise. I just don't know what will come of it. On the plus side, the Sox are in the proverbial "catbird seat," where they have a lot of positive options for moving forward. I wonder what KW will have for us....

[TheBigHurt]

This is great news, but how the hell can anyone say trade Count or say that there's no reason to jeep him? O_o

[JUGGERNAUT]

Since Kenny became GM of the WC CWS how much money have the White Sox paid to trade players with lofty contracts? That's never been an issue with the White Sox because they have the depth in scouting & player development to sweeten any deal beyond cash.

 

Kenny has never run this team thinking of job security & the team's financial security should come first. He runs the team to win. He was able to stretch the team's payroll to it's highest level ever by convincing the team owners he could produce a winner. Now he's going to grow that payroll another $20 million (ala the Anaheim Angels formula).

 

Do you really think there is one person on that board that doesn't believe the Chicago White Sox can mirror the financial success of the Anaheim Angels?

 

Kenny's plan to maintain a winner:

1) Spend as much as the team can afford to maintain one of the best (if not the best) rotation in baseball.

2) Spend talent & remaining cash to field the best pen & positition players the White Sox can afford.

 

He has essentially been following this plan since he tookover as GM.

 

Crawford fits in that plan because he is signed to a small contract for the next 3 yrs & his contract grows to no more than $30M/5 yrs if the team picks up the two option years. If Pods produces any where near the level Crawford has he is sure to cost the WC CWS more than Crawford will over that time. Next to a starter a leadoff hitter might be the most important player on a team. That's why Damon's a NYY now.

[mr_genius]

great news!

[fathom]

garland for erstadt?

 

Is this serious? I wouldn't trade Raul Casanova for Erstad.

[Texsox]

I don't know how to react when my team is acting like a team trying to build a dynasty. Never in my wildest dreams would I imagine the pitching staff that will be together for the next 3 seasons. Just incredible. This staff will rival, if not surpass, the Atlanta staffs of the 90s. Great mix, great citizens, Wow!

[fathom]

I don't know how to react when my team is acting like a team trying to build a dynasty. Never in my wildest dreams would I imagine the pitching staff that will be together for the next 3 seasons. Just incredible. This staff will rival, if not surpass, the Atlanta staffs of the 90s. Great mix, great citizens, Wow!

 

I agree, I think it's awesome that we're paying big money to keep our core together.

[jackie hayes]

Is this serious?  I wouldn't trade Raul Casanova for Erstad.

He wasn't proposing this -- he was asking if the other poster was referring to the Garland-for-Erstad deal a few years back, instead of G-for-Eckstein. (Which I don't remember either...)

[WCSox]

In general, "You are correct sir!"

 

But, players like Tejada don't come along too often...you gotta get them if/when you get a chance.

 

Players like A-Rod don't come along too often, either. And how many rings did the Rangers and Yankees win after they took on his bloated contract? Tejada won't cost $20+ million/year, but he will be somewhere in the range of $12-$15 million/year over the next few seasons. Sure, it'd be exciting to see a lineup of Thome/Paulie/Tejada/Dye, but I don't see how this organization is going to support his salary, along with Paulie, Thome, Dye, Burhle, Garland, Vasquez, and Crede when he's a free agent. Uribe is as good as they come defensively, isn't a liability at the plate, and is relatively cheap.

 

If I were KW, I'd be willing to part ways with McCarthy, Uribe, and a couple prospects for him. But I don't think the O's would go for that. Most of the low-to-medium-salary guys aren't readily replaceable. That includes Crede, Tad, Pods, A.J., Cotts, and Jenks. A Tejada trade for anything other than one of our starters would just create a gaping hole (or two, or three) on the team.

[RockRaines]

Trade whoever, the only untouchable in my eyes is MB.

[fathom]

He wasn't proposing this -- he was asking if the other poster was referring to the Garland-for-Erstad deal a few years back, instead of G-for-Eckstein.  (Which I don't remember either...)

 

Ah gotcha, I honestly didn't bother going back to read it. Thanks for the clarification.

[JUGGERNAUT]

You are correct it in that it was a pkg incl Garland for Erstad that Disney nixed because Garland was not a marquee player.

 

Pitching is the most tradeable commodity in the game. So signing starters worthy of $10M+ to 3 yr deals is not crazy. What BMac represents is promising major league starter that will cost a few million in 2 yrs & double to triple that in 4 yrs. What Crawford represents is a proven major league run producer capable of scoring a 100 runs or more each year at a cost of a few million now, & double that in 5 yrs. You can't get a Crawford by trading Contreras.

[WCSox]

BMac has much more experience than most rookie SP's. He's proved he can adapt after getting knocked around. And he's proven he can handle disappointments and adversity [not being on the playoff roster though he was one of the top pitchers in Sept] with major league class

 

Sure, but he's only piched 67 major-league innings. I'm pleased with the results thus far, but I think it's premature to say that he's "proven" anything. Remember when Kip Wells first came up in September of '99 and went 4-1/4.04? That turned into 6-9/6.02 the following year.

 

If the Sox decided to trade any of their starting pitchers, McCarthy should be the one to go. And unless they could get someone like Tejada in the deal, I wouldn't be terribly happy about it.

[AddisonStSox]

With respect to the Garland camp which players on the White Sox have the best opportunity for endorsements both locally & nationally?  Is it unreasonable to suggest that Jon can make between $5-6M a yr in endorsments by staying with the CWS over the next 3 yrs?

 

The White Sox would like nothing better than to strike a dagger in the heart of Cubbydom by promoting Garland as the poster child for the team.

 

You have to be s***ting me, right?

 

The only endorsment I was even aware of by a member of the White Sox last year was a Nike promotion with Pierzynski. You're telling me Chicago White Sox starting pitcher Jon Garland is going to make up to $6M in endorsments? Make Garland the poster boy for this team and strike a dagger in the Tribune Co.?

 

I can't be reading this right.

[AddisonStSox]

Sure, but he's only piched 67 major-league innings.  I'm pleased with the results thus far, but I think it's premature to say that he's "proven" anything.  Remember when Kip Wells first came up in September of '99 and went 4-1/4.04?  That turned into 6-9/6.02 the following year.

 

If the Sox decided to trade any of their starting pitchers, McCarthy should be the one to go.  And unless they could get someone like Tejada in the deal, I wouldn't be terribly happy about it.

 

This just floors me. The White Sox are X amount of dollars over budget. The White Sox are known to want to get the payroll somewhere around Y. Well, one logical course of action suggests the trading of the youngest, cheapest and most controlled (contractually) of the starters and presumably some prospects for someone with one of the higher contracts in all of baseball.

 

Yes. We're getting closer.

[CWSGuy406]

If the Sox decided to trade any of their starting pitchers, McCarthy should be the one to go.  And unless they could get someone like Tejada in the deal, I wouldn't be terribly happy about it.

 

Why? We're going to have McCarthy for the next five-six years at a minimal salary, and the Sox are going to need that somewhere on the team -- good production for little price. We're not the Yankees just yet -- we can't afford to be paying each guy in the rotation eight figures... you just can't do that.

 

Your Kip Wells comparison, BTW, sucks. B-Mac reached the big leauges a full years sooner than Wells, averaged about a full three more K's/9 than Wells in the minors, walked two less guys than Wells per nine, and had an ERA a half a run lower than Wells'. Apples and oranges, really...

[AddisonStSox]

Why?  We're going to have McCarthy for the next five-six years at a minimal salary, and the Sox are going to need that somewhere on the team -- good production for little price.  We're not the Yankees just yet -- we can't afford to be paying each guy in the rotation eight figures...  you just can't do that. 

 

Your Kip Wells comparison, BTW, sucks.  B-Mac reached the big leauges a full years sooner than Wells, averaged about a full three more K's/9 than Wells in the minors, walked two less guys than Wells per nine, and had an ERA a half a run lower than Wells'.  Apples and oranges, really...

 

Hey! Keith!

 

You take your logic and you get the F outta here!

[Flash Tizzle]

Including McCarthy in trade discussions is ridiculous. I'm honestly irritated to even hear it discussed within the contents of this website. It worries me more than not because of the potential he's shown. We'll regret including him for any player, in any trade. He's not close to untouchable, he IS untouchable.

 

Whether Tejada or Crawford are projected returns for BMAC, Williams will regret the move in a few years when a rotation spot (or two) are open and our inflated payroll leaves him with few viable options. I'd rather trade Contreras, fill pitching holes (ideally relievers), and enter spring training with our roster as it currently stands. Even holding onto Contreras and leaving Bmac in the bullpen (a move I strongly oppose) is more logical than signing a 38 year old Cuban pitcher to an extension and trading cheap pitching talent.

 

It's comical to suggest trading McCarthy because a minor league pitcher will undoutbedly be ready in 2008. Who are we, Minnesota?

Edited December 28, 2005 by Flash Tizzle

[Balta1701]

I haven't seen this posted yet in this thread and I think I've read most of it, so here's a KW quote appearing in theESPN.com piece on JG:

 

"Our ultimate desire ... was to keep this team intact," Williams said. "It may turn out that someone overwhelms us with an offer for Jose."

[Dick Allen]

I haven't seen this posted yet in this thread and I think I've read most of it, so here's a KW quote appearing in theESPN.com piece on JG:

Obviously negotiations with Jose haven't gone as well as was expected. Putting yourself in the Contreras camp's shoes, what do you ask for that's reasonable? Garland was skipped so Contreras could start game 1 of the ALCS. Contreras started game 1 of all the post season series. He has to be worth more than the 2 year $22 million extension that Garland basically received, doesn't he?

Edited December 28, 2005 by Dick Allen