Jon Garland poll.

[SSH2005]

Because .... Winning is what's most important. Period. If you dismiss win/loss percentage you are dismissing the difinitive stat. It's all about winning.

And once again... winning is a team stat, not an individual stat.

[Felix]

Because .... Winning is what's most important. Period. If you dismiss win/loss percentage you are dismissing the difinitive stat. It's all about winning.

So look at wins for the team, not the pitcher.

[YASNY]

Sorry guys. I've been around this game enough to know that some pitchers know how to win, regardless of the other stats. Again, it's all about winning. That's all that matters.

[Dick Allen]

Sorry guys. I've been around this game enough to know that some pitchers know how to win, regardless of the other stats. Again, it's all about winning. That's all that matters.

I totally agree, wins are the most important stat. 300 wins guarantees you a HOF plaque, a sweet ERA or WHIP do not. That said, since the end of July last season, Garland is 7-8, which is more in line with his career numbers, while pitching for a team that wins often. I think its really being overly optimistic that he really is the guy who was 15-4 at one point last season. I don't think its a fluke that he was 15-4 last year, he's capable, but he's not a guy that will consistently give you the quality to actually expect something like that year in and year out.

Edited May 29, 2006 by Dick Allen

[YASNY]

I totally agree, wins are the most important stat. 300 wins guarantees you a HOF plaque, a sweet ERA or WHIP do not. That said, since the end of July last season, Garland is 7-8, which is more in line with his career numbers, while pitching for a team that wins often. I think its really being overly optimistic that he really is the guy who was 15-4 at one point last season. I don't think its a fluke that he was 15-4 last year, he's capable, but he's not a guy that will consistently give you the quality to actually expect something like that year in and year out.

 

How about 11-7? Is that overly optimistic? That's about what I expect out of Garland. Maybe 16-10 over the course of a full season.

[Dick Allen]

How about 11-7? Is that overly optimistic? That's about what I expect out of Garland. Maybe 16-10 over the course of a full season.

16-10 would be great. 11-7 is pretty good as well. The 11-7 isn't $10 million or $12 million a year good, but in today's game $7 million good. 16-10 is worth the last couple year's of his contract. He's a tease, that's why KW probably would have no problem finding someone to take him and his money in the offseason.

[DBAHO]

Jaret Wright: 57-50, 5.17 ERA, 1.56 WHIP

 

The thing is with Wright, he had that 1 good year under Mazzone in Atlanta where he won about 18 games and how a low 3 ERA IIRC.

 

Then he move to the Yanks and was never the same.

 

Garland's a different situation when you look at he's stayed at the one team, and was probably getting comfortable with what Coop was teaching him, and it finally clicked.

 

Most people loved the re-signing when it happened, and now the vast majority here have turned on him after 2 fairly average months.

[OilCan]

Is it a mental thing with Jonny right now?

He has all-world talent...wonder why he's pulling a James Baldwin this year. One bad inning every game, the rest of the innings....all well, you know.

[aboz56]

Garland is trade bait after the season.

 

Hopefully someone will actually take him and that awful contract we gave him.

[Felix]

Is it a mental thing with Jonny right now?

He has all-world talent...wonder why he's pulling a James Baldwin this year. One bad inning every game, the rest of the innings....all well, you know.

He does?

[aboz56]

Most people loved the re-signing when it happened, and now the vast majority here have turned on him after 2 fairly average months.

For the record, I've never liked him.

 

Just wanted to point that out.

 

[TheBigHurt]

Frankly, I'm sick of hearing this. Maybe he's a fluke, maybe he's not, but I say no. He'll come around.

 

I guess Estaban Loaiza has no chance of being really good, either.

[OilCan]

He does?

 

 

Well, okay. I'll put down the paint stripper. :banghead

 

So he has TALENT. Just wonder what gives this year?

[WCSox]

Most people loved the re-signing when it happened, and now the vast majority here have turned on him after 2 fairly average months.

 

No, they're turning on him after two below-average months AND three additional years of mediocrity. Props to Jon for last season and all, but most people still remember 2002, 2003, and 2004.

 

I really hope that Jon gets it together soon. But if he doesn't, the fans have 29 million reasons to criticize him.

[Soxfest]

I have always said JG is a .500 pitcher and end of rotation guy.

[whitesoxfan101]

To answer this, no it wasn't. Jon had a fluke start to the year, and after that pretty much flatlined to his normal self. Jon is what he is, he's a 5th starter who eats innings and is average. However in today's horrid market where pitching is so hard to find, 3/29 for a mid 20's pitcher with tons of experience who throws 200 innings and has a mid 4's ERA (which is where Jon will end up again this year IMO) is market value.

 

All I know is Jon will pitch better than he is right now. He won't be MB or anything, but he'll finish with a 4.60 ERA or so and 14 or 15 wins and 200+ IP, and that's not bad for a 5th starter (which is what he is on this staff, by far).

Edited May 30, 2006 by whitesoxfan101

[Rowand44]

To answer this, no it wasn't. Jon had a fluke start to the year, and after that pretty much flatlined to his normal self.

Look at Jon's 2nd half and playoff numbers from last year, I'm not sure you can tell me that with a straight face.

Edited May 30, 2006 by Rowand44

[whitesoxfan101]

Look at Jon's 2nd half and playoff numbers from last year, I'm not sure you can tell me that with a straight face.

 

I'm aware, I watch the games. Jon finished with a 3.50 ERA last year, IMO that's a run or so below where he should be all things considered (he pitches in a great hitters park, doesn't have overwhelming stuff, not a big k guy, AL, etc). Jon is a guy that should have an ERA of 4.50 or so and pitch about 200 innings, and on this team that makes him the 5th starter and a guy that can win 14 or 15 games with this offense. Now on paper, you see that and say "how the f*** is that worth 3 and 29"....but if your 26 and throw 200 innings, while having a slightly below league average or so ERA, it's worth it....especially on a team like this where he is the #5.

Edited May 30, 2006 by whitesoxfan101

[T R U]

Look at Jon's 2nd half and playoff numbers from last year, I'm not sure you can tell me that with a straight face.

 

Garland is money in the playoffs

[Rowand44]

I'm aware, I watch the games. Jon finished with a 3.50 ERA last year, IMO that's a run or so below where he should be all things considered (he pitches in a great hitters park, doesn't have overwhelming stuff, not a big k guy, AL, etc). Jon is a guy that should have an ERA of 4.50 or so and pitch about 200 innings, and on this team that makes him the 5th starter and a guy that can win 14 or 15 games with this offense. Now on paper, you see that and say "how the f*** is that worth 3 and 29"....but if your 26 and throw 200 innings, while having a slightly below league average or so ERA, it's worth it....especially on a team like this where he is the #5.

I wasn't arguing how good a pitcher Jon is, I was just correcting you because you said he flatlined after a good start last year, which isn't true.

Edited May 30, 2006 by Rowand44

[whitesoxfan101]

I wasn't arguing how good a pitcher Jon is, I was just correcting you because you said he flatlined after a good start last year, which isn't true.

 

Well he wasn't terrible, but he wasn't as good in the 2nd half as he was the 1st. However he did what we needed in the playoffs obviously, so well done in that regard.

[Rowand44]

Well he wasn't terrible, but he wasn't as good in the 2nd half as he was the 1st. However he did what we needed in the playoffs obviously, so well done in that regard.

He had something like a 3.6 era in the 2nd half of last year with something like a 2.5 era in the playoffs. His 2nd half wasn't as great as his first half but he certainly didn't flatline to his career norms.

[Gene Honda Civic]

All I know is Jon will pitch better than he is right now. He won't be MB or anything, but he'll finish with a 4.60 ERA or so and 14 or 15 wins and 200+ IP, and that's not bad for a 5th starter (which is what he is on this staff, by far).

Garland will need to post a 3.80 ERA for the next 140 innings to meet that projection.

 

He's gone nearly a third of the season with an ERA almost 2 runs above his career average. I'll settle for him pitching his career average for the remainder of the season, which will put him north of 5.00 to end the season, and have 85% of the site calling for his head.

[whitesoxfan101]

Garland will need to post a 3.80 ERA for the next 140 innings to meet that projection.

 

He's gone nearly a third of the season with an ERA almost 2 runs above his career average. I'll settle for him pitching his career average for the remainder of the season, which will put him north of 5.00 to end the season, and have 85% of the site calling for his head.

 

Hmm good point, I guess I didn't think of how deep into the season we are. I dunno, I guess I am suffering from the "only one stat matters" viewpoint, and we are 6-4 in Jon starts, which paces us at 18-12 in the first 30 starts from our #5 starter. And with that in mind, Jon can and probably will pitch at least a little better eventually, which could improve that record.

[T R U]

He had something like a 3.6 era in the 2nd half of last year with something like a 2.5 era in the playoffs. His 2nd half wasn't as great as his first half but he certainly didn't flatline to his career norms.

 

It was 2.25

 

Dont insult G Money with that 2.5 non-sense