I like this deal but anyone else think it could be a prelude to a bigger deal...meaning Quentin, Fields and Danks for Cabrera or Bedard?

 

I know why Quentin is more valuable than Carter for our organization: we're in win now mode and he can step in right away and fill a major hole. Why do people think that the Marlins clearly prefer Quentin over Carter?

Somehow Andy Gonzalez > Heath Phillips?

Heath was out of options. He was going to be gone come the end of ST anyway.

When he went down to the Minors though, he still put up a 1.004 OPS. He tore things up after being sent down.

 

I don't necessarily agree with the D'Backs fan, as the shoulder injury ended up requiring surgery, so I'm sure that took somewhat of a 'mental' toll and thus altered his approach a bit. They're saying his plate discipline was absolutely brutal last year but his minor league (career) numbers don't show that he was (a) a free swinger (187 Ks in 1300+ at-bats) or ( B ) poor in the 'plate-discipline' area (K/BB ratio was almost 1-to-1 -- 187 to 169.

 

At the very least, we've finally gotten rid of using LF as a spot for a weak hitting outfielder. I hope that doesn't transfer over to CF, now.

 

As far as a leadoff man, most everyone is making too big a deal about it. Go and get a player for CF -- if that's Andruw Jones, so be it. Hitting Cabrera leadoff isn't going to make a huge difference as he's already been slated as the #2 hitter -- what's moving him up one spot in the order going to hurt? The issue would be against righties, as a against lefties you can comfortably slot Fields or even Quentin second.

 

I'd still prefer Fukodome, though.

Edited December 3, 200718 yr by CWSGuy406

I definitely want Quentin, Fields and Danks to stay and would be happier to see them perform well in '08 and become future stars rather than getting one superstar and creating 2 holes now and more in the future.

I know why Quentin is more valuable than Carter for our organization: we're in win now mode and he can step in right away and fill a major hole. Why do people think that the Marlins clearly prefer Quentin over Carter?

Quentin has a higher ceiling than Carter, is able to step in right now and play a position where the Marlins are weak (OF), and the Marlins have at least a quality young guy at 1b already in Mike Jacobs.

I love this move.

I like this deal. A few short years ago, Quentin was all the rage in the Dbacks system. After scouring news sources, many around the league considered him an attractive part of any deal involving the Dbacks getting a quality pitcher at the meetings.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-h...o&type=lgns

 

IMO, Chris Carter won't become the next Chris Young.

I know why Quentin is more valuable than Carter for our organization: we're in win now mode and he can step in right away and fill a major hole. Why do people think that the Marlins clearly prefer Quentin over Carter?

 

Because the NL does not have a DH spot.

Quentin has a higher ceiling than Carter, is able to step in right now and play a position where the Marlins are weak (OF), and the Marlins have at least a quality young guy at 1b already in Mike Jacobs.

 

The positional aspect makes sense but since when do 25 year old prospects have higher ceilings than 20 year old prospects? That's hard to do unless the 25 year old is considering one of the better young players in the game. The fact that we were able to land Quentin for Carter would suggest that that's not the case and that the last couple seasons have hurt his value some in the eyes of MLB front offices. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of this deal, but if we traded a 20 year old for a 25 year old who can play right now and has a higher upside Kenny just pulled off the steal of the decade and I'm not willing to go quite that far.

Gosh darn it I just love this move. The Sox now have 3 young position players with a good level of upside in there everyday lineup (Quentin, Richar, Fields). I am actually hoping that Quentin will play RF with Jermaine Dye sliding to LF.

 

If Kenny can acquire a quality leadoff hitter/cfer I'd be quite happy with the retooling of the lineup (the pitching staff is still a question-mark and I hope Kenny has a trick or two left up his sleeve when it comes to that). Please get a quality leadoff hitter/cfer Kenny.

 

He also still has Crede/Uribe/MacDougall to offer up to squads. I hope the Yanks gets Johan which than enables Coco Crisp to be available in CF (I know a lot of people aren't fans of him, but I'd be perfectly content getting him assuming the price isn't any more than MacDougall and a Kyle McCulloch).

The positional aspect makes sense but since when do 25 year old prospects have higher ceilings than 20 year old prospects? That's hard to do unless the 25 year old is considering one of the better young players in the game. The fact that we were able to land Quentin for Carter would suggest that that's not the case and that the last couple seasons have hurt his value some in the eyes of MLB front offices. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of this deal, but if we traded a 20 year old for a 25 year old who can play right now and has a higher upside Kenny just pulled off the steal of the decade and I'm not willing to go quite that far.

 

Pretty sure Frank Thomas or Albert Belle or any former MLB player who's twice my age has a higher ceiling than me simply because they are better than me.

 

Age has nothing to do with ceiling.

Gosh darn it I just love this move. The Sox now have 3 young position players with a good level of upside in there everyday lineup (Quentin, Richar, Fields). I am actually hoping that Quentin will play RF with Jermaine Dye sliding to LF.

 

If Kenny can acquire a quality leadoff hitter/cfer I'd be quite happy with the retooling of the lineup (the pitching staff is still a question-mark and I hope Kenny has a trick or two left up his sleeve when it comes to that). Please get a quality leadoff hitter/cfer Kenny.

 

He also still has Crede/Uribe/MacDougall to offer up to squads. I hope the Yanks gets Johan which than enables Coco Crisp to be available in CF (I know a lot of people aren't fans of him, but I'd be perfectly content getting him assuming the price isn't any more than MacDougall and a Kyle McCulloch).

 

I like this move too, the Sox thought they had this guy at least once last year. Kenny likes those Stanford guys.

 

Sox are far from done, they have more to do and KW knows it.

 

By the way they signed a utility IF too, minor league FA Mike Rouse, who filled in at SS, 2B, 3B for the Tribe last year.

I know why Quentin is more valuable than Carter for our organization: we're in win now mode and he can step in right away and fill a major hole. Why do people think that the Marlins clearly prefer Quentin over Carter?

 

Because he is more ML ready than Carter and they need ML players not 20 year old prospects.

 

This deal sounds to good to be true.

 

The Rays come to mind. Remember they do not use Crawford to lead off and could use some pop in their line-up, some bullpen help and young pitching....

This deal is pretty hot. Quentin is capable of putting up Fukudomelike numbers for the league minimum, and we can still make a big upgrade by adding one of the FA center fielders. Hell yeah, Williams!

OOOPS I thought I put it in the right spot sorry

Edited December 3, 200718 yr by WSoxMatt

The positional aspect makes sense but since when do 25 year old prospects have higher ceilings than 20 year old prospects? That's hard to do unless the 25 year old is considering one of the better young players in the game. The fact that we were able to land Quentin for Carter would suggest that that's not the case and that the last couple seasons have hurt his value some in the eyes of MLB front offices. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of this deal, but if we traded a 20 year old for a 25 year old who can play right now and has a higher upside Kenny just pulled off the steal of the decade and I'm not willing to go quite that far.

 

It means that when Carlos Quentin peaks (let's say age 28) and when Chris Carter peaks (let's say age 27), Quentin will be better at his peak than Carter was at his peak. For the White Sox, they get the higher ceiling guy and may get his peak very soon, whereas they may have to wait 5-7 years for Carter to peak. Given positions of strength (OF for DBacks) and the fact that the DBacks have a glut of prospects that are in the Majors now, they may want to reload their next stream of prospects instead of wasting Quentin.

 

Based off players still with the team, it looks like the deal with the DBacks is now:

 

Chris Young, Aaron Cunningham & Chris Carter for Javier Vasquez, Danny Richar and Carlos Quentin. I would do that trade any day of the week. Of course, replacing BA with CY would make it look like highway robbery but perhaps we couldn't have completed the other two deals if Arizona wasn't happy with the results of the first.

The long, pinned thread on this same topic might have some additional discussion for you.

Chris Young, Aaron Cunningham & Chris Carter for Javier Vasquez, Danny Richar and Carlos Quentin. I would do that trade any day of the week. Of course, replacing BA with CY would make it look like highway robbery but perhaps we couldn't have completed the other two deals if Arizona wasn't happy with the results of the first.

And they chipped in about $3.5 million or so, IIRC.

Steve and I were just discussing this. Both of us are also fans of Owens abilities and potential.

 

I'm with you and if the kid ANY kind of power at all, I would be pushing for the Sox to give him a chance. But, he's definitely not good enough in all of the other areas to overlook only 25-30 extra base hits a season.

 

Surprised many aren't upset more about Phillips being DFA'ed. Could of at least got something for him.

GREAT move by KW....I keep waiting to hear we had to throw something else in, hopefully it won't happen. Buying a guy at his lowest cost, way to go KW!

Pretty sure Frank Thomas or Albert Belle or any former MLB player who's twice my age has a higher ceiling than me simply because they are better than me.

 

Age has nothing to do with ceiling.

 

With all due respect, I think the value of Carter and Quentin as prospects are much closer than ceiling between you and Frank Thomas.

 

I'd say that age is the number one factor when discussing ceiling. Players typically reach their prime around the age of 27 or 28. Hence Carter theoretically has 7 or 8 more years of improvement compared to two or three years for Quentin. Certainly tools are also a factor but age is critical. There's a reason you hear people talk about ceilings more with 19 year old pitchers dazzling in the minors than with 30 year old vets.

Surprised many aren't upset more about Phillips being DFA'ed. Could of at least got something for him.

I would imagine that given that Heath is out of options, if the Sox could have gotten anything for him in the last 2 years, even a minor league reliever somewhere, they would have done exactly that.

Pretty sure Frank Thomas or Albert Belle or any former MLB player who's twice my age has a higher ceiling than me simply because they are better than me.

 

Age has nothing to do with ceiling.

 

 

I don't know. Judging by your photograph, those guys look a lot more than twice your age.

Surprised many aren't upset more about Phillips being DFA'ed. Could of at least got something for him.

Phillips had near-zero trade value. Kind of like Andy Gonzalez, who we all hope comes off next (and should have come off for Hernandez).