The White Sox and Alexei Ramírez agree to 4 year deal

[scenario]

Just to make sure we're not barbequing Richar inappropriately for small sample size periods...

 

Here are his last 3 full years of stats (including the combined 2007 Tucson/Charlotte figures).

 

 

Year (Level): BA/OBP/SLG/OBP

 

2005 (A+): .300/.347/.537/.884

 

2006 (AA): .292/.360/.415/.775 (these stats while batting leadoff in the Southern League)

 

2007 (AAA): .305/.365/.505/.870

 

 

So... he projects very nicely as someone who could help us if he gets a chance. To put it in perspective, he has a better offensive history (especially slugging-wise) than Asdrubal Cabrera who is being pencilled in as Cleveland's 2B.

Edited December 30, 2007 by scenario

[Vance Law]

Just to make sure we're not barbequing Richar inappropriately for small sample size periods...

 

Here are his last 3 full years of stats (including the combined 2007 Tucson/Charlotte figures).

Year (Level): BA/OBP/SLG/OBP

 

2005 (A+): .300/.347/.537/.884

 

2006 (AA): .292/.360/.415/.775 (these stats while batting leadoff in the Southern League)

 

2007 (AAA): .305/.365/.505/.870

So... he projects very nicely as someone who could help us if he gets a chance. To put it in perspective, he has a better offensive history (especially slugging-wise) than Asdrubal Cabrera who is being pencilled in as Cleveland's 2B.

 

Bill James projection .277/.338/.451 for an OPS of .788. Not too shabby.

[bmags]

especially at second base.

[knightni]

KW thinks that he found his Soriano.

[EvilMonkey]

Bill James projection .277/.338/.451 for an OPS of .788. Not too shabby.

That would be a good thing, especially if it is consistent, not .150 in April and May, and .350 in July

[bmags]

well, he's a young player, that might happen.

[Vance Law]

To put it in perspective, he has a better offensive history (especially slugging-wise) than Asdrubal Cabrera who is being pencilled in as Cleveland's 2B.

 

Anything that doesn't go well for Richar will be magnified by 50. Anything that Asdrubal does well will be magnified to "prove" how all of the other teams, and particularly our rivals, have all great young players. Their GMs never make moves that turn out bad. Their GMs would never trade Kevin Kouzmanoff for Josh Barfield (who would have to be sent down to the minors). But us suckers get stuck with Javier Vazquez in trading Chris Young. Chris Young would never put up an OPS+ of 89 last year and Kevin Kouzmanoff would never put up a 109.

 

[sircaffey]

Anything that doesn't go well for Richar will be magnified by 50. Anything that Asdrubal does well will be magnified to "prove" how all of the other teams, and particularly our rivals, have all great young players. Their GMs never make moves that turn out bad. Their GMs would never trade Kevin Kouzmanoff for Josh Barfield (who would have to be sent down to the minors). But us suckers get stuck with Javier Vazquez in trading Chris Young. Chris Young would never put up an OPS+ of 89 last year and Kevin Kouzmanoff would never put up a 109.

 

Slightly different situations there considering the Sox now have a black hole in CF and the Indians still have a good 3B. That's why one is magnified and one isn't.

[Vance Law]

Slightly different situations there considering the Sox now have a black hole in CF and the Indians still have a good 3B. That's why one is magnified and one isn't.

 

I would suggest that one is magnified because of fans' hyper-focus on and overly emotional reaction to anything that doesn't go well for their team. Such fans will generally also sport 20/20 hindsight.

 

If you are suggesting that soxtalk fans, sox fans, and fans in general manage to take in all of the information on players' performances, GMs' trades, draft picks, contracts and free agent signings across the league and put them all into perspective and give thoughtful, rational reactions, I would disagree.

 

Kouzmanoff completely torched the minor leagues all the way through. Put up a better rookie season than Josh Fields last year. And for all intents and purposes, the Indians gave him away for nothing. If that happened to our team, there would be 14 35-page long threads about it.

[sircaffey]

I would suggest that one is magnified because of fans' hyper-focus on and overly emotional reaction to anything that doesn't go well for their team. Such fans will generally also sport 20/20 hindsight.

 

If you are suggesting that soxtalk fans, sox fans, and fans in general manage to take in all of the information on players' performances, GMs' trades, draft picks, contracts and free agent signings across the league and put them all into perspective and give thoughtful, rational reactions, I would disagree.

 

Kouzmanoff completely torched the minor leagues all the way through. Put up a better rookie season than Josh Fields last year. And for all intents and purposes, the Indians gave him away for nothing. If that happened to our team, there would be 14 35-page long threads about it.

 

I think it's a little of both. If Anderson would have turned out, not nearly as many people would be upset over the Vazquez trade.

 

Kouzmanoff is also an absolute butcher in the field. A lot of people complain about Fields at 3B, well Kouz is worse. He'll soon be a 1B or DH, something CLE has no need for. Barfield is still a very talented player. I think it was a bad trade due to Cabrera's emergence, but had he not emerged, I think it'd still be a half-way decent trade for Cleveland.

[scenario]

Slightly different situations there considering the Sox now have a black hole in CF and the Indians still have a good 3B. That's why one is magnified and one isn't.

 

The Indians have a good 3B???

 

According to who? Not even Indians fans believe that.

 

Andy Marte is a bust. He's a lousy fielder who can't hit AAA pitching. He makes Brian Anderson look GREAT. One of the most common discussions on Tribe boards is who they can unload him on now that he's out of options.

 

And that leaves 3B to Casey Blake, who at 34 years old in 2007 had the 3rd best year of his career (.270/.339/.437/.777 with 18 homeruns and 123 strikeouts)?

 

So, do you honestly believe their 3B situation is better than ours?? Please....

 

We've got two 3Bs. They've got a guy older than Jermaine Dye who was supposed to play 1B for them in '07 but got called into 3B duty because their 'big 3B prospect' sucked his way back to AAA... again.

 

Advantage - Sox.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

btw - What may occur (if Barfield gets his OBP above Uribe's) is Barfield at 2B, Cabrera at SS (his natural position), and Peralta moves over to 3B. That's one of the scenarios that Tribe fans are suggesting because Peralta is not a good SS fielding-wise. They're trying to find a way to keep his bat in the lineup + improve their defense.

Edited December 31, 2007 by scenario

[CanOfCorn]

I think it's a little of both. If Anderson would have turned out, not nearly as many people would be upset over the Vazquez trade.

 

Kouzmanoff is also an absolute butcher in the field. A lot of people complain about Fields at 3B, well Kouz is worse. He'll soon be a 1B or DH, something CLE has no need for. Barfield is still a very talented player. I think it was a bad trade due to Cabrera's emergence, but had he not emerged, I think it'd still be a half-way decent trade for Cleveland.

 

Here's the thing, though. In many cases, this isn't necessarily one of them because there never was a competition, unless you give that player a chance, Anderson or Sweeney, in this case, you never know. Anderson may just need a change of scenery. Or he may be a AAAA player. ALL GMs have to make that choice and they aren't always right, although some a right more often than others.

 

[Vance Law]

Kouzmanoff is also an absolute butcher in the field. A lot of people complain about Fields at 3B, well Kouz is worse.

 

I can't say I've seen him play much so I have no personal opinion of his defense. A quick look at one defensive measure, David Pinto's Probabilistic Model of Range, says he's indeed subpar, but was better than Ryan Braun, G. Atkins, Miguel Cabrera, Josh Fields, Casey Blake, Jose Bautista, Mark Reynolds, and Ty Wiggington.

 

http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/023949.php

[NorthSideSox72]

I can't say I've seen him play much so I have no personal opinion of his defense. A quick look at one defensive measure, David Pinto's Probabilistic Model of Range, says he's indeed subpar, but was better than Ryan Braun, G. Atkins, Miguel Cabrera, Josh Fields, Casey Blake, Jose Bautista, Mark Reynolds, and Ty Wiggington.

 

http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/023949.php

His FPct of .932 was 2nd worst in all of baseball (Braun was worst at a horrid .895), Range Factor was 3rd worst at 2.38, and Zone Rating of .763 was a bit better but still in the bottom half. He's pretty bad out there.

 

Comparatively, Fields' FPct of .958 would have been good for about 16th among 21 qualified 3B in 2007, his RF of 2.69 would be right around average, but his ZR of .713 would be second to last. He has decent range, and he has a good arm (that from watching him play), but needs to work on the glove - which is something more easily fixed I think than range and arm.

 

[sircaffey]

The Indians have a good 3B???

 

According to who? Not even Indians fans believe that.

 

Andy Marte is a bust. He's a lousy fielder who can't hit AAA pitching. He makes Brian Anderson look GREAT. One of the most common discussions on Tribe boards is who they can unload him on now that he's out of options.

 

And that leaves 3B to Casey Blake, who at 34 years old in 2007 had the 3rd best year of his career (.270/.339/.437/.777 with 18 homeruns and 123 strikeouts)?

 

So, do you honestly believe their 3B situation is better than ours?? Please....

 

We've got two 3Bs. They've got a guy older than Jermaine Dye who was supposed to play 1B for them in '07 but got called into 3B duty because their 'big 3B prospect' sucked his way back to AAA... again.

 

Advantage - Sox.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

btw - What may occur (if Barfield gets his OBP above Uribe's) is Barfield at 2B, Cabrera at SS (his natural position), and Peralta moves over to 3B. That's one of the scenarios that Tribe fans are suggesting because Peralta is not a good SS fielding-wise. They're trying to find a way to keep his bat in the lineup + improve their defense.

 

Who was comparing each team's 3B? I wasn't.

[sircaffey]

Here's the thing, though. In many cases, this isn't necessarily one of them because there never was a competition, unless you give that player a chance, Anderson or Sweeney, in this case, you never know. Anderson may just need a change of scenery. Or he may be a AAAA player. ALL GMs have to make that choice and they aren't always right, although some a right more often than others.

 

That's what I'm saying. Had Anderson been the right choice, not nearly as many people would be upset over the Vazquez trade.

[sircaffey]

I can't say I've seen him play much so I have no personal opinion of his defense. A quick look at one defensive measure, David Pinto's Probabilistic Model of Range, says he's indeed subpar, but was better than Ryan Braun, G. Atkins, Miguel Cabrera, Josh Fields, Casey Blake, Jose Bautista, Mark Reynolds, and Ty Wiggington.

 

http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/023949.php

 

From what I've seen, not many people think he'll stick at 3B.

[The Beast]

Is there a reason that there's been no activity as of late? Tell me if I'm wrong, but do the Sox have two shortstops, a gap in the rotation left by Garland, no leadoff hitter, no centerfielder, and no confirmation of this Ramirez deal, while Crede is still here. "What's the dilio?"

Edited December 31, 2007 by The Beast

[Rowand44]

well, he's a young player, that might happen.

It most likely will. With the current state of our team, it'd be absolutely retarded to not start Richar at 2nd. Let him play and see if we can develop a nice player at 2nd base. Richar has the talent to be successful in this league, let him prove it.

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

Is there a reason that there's been no activity as of late? Tell me if I'm wrong, but do the Sox have two shortstops, a gap in the rotation left by Garland, no leadoff hitter, no centerfielder, and no confirmation of this Ramirez deal, while Crede is still here. "What's the dilio?"

I believe there is usually an unofficial moratorium on deals/transactions between the Christmas holiday and the New Year. This is not to say KW should not made to work like one of Santa's elves during that time.

[Dick Allen]

It most likely will. With the current state of our team, it'd be absolutely retarded to not start Richar at 2nd. Let him play and see if we can develop a nice player at 2nd base. Richar has the talent to be successful in this league, let him prove it.

Isn't it funny Marte in Cleveland is now being written off as a bust by their fans and White Sox fans are clinging to hope Richar develops into something good, when Richar is actually the older player of the 2? I do agree, unless KW improves the roster by a great amount before the season starts, you might as well see what Richar can do playing full time during the heart of the season.

[RockRaines]

Isn't it funny Marte in Cleveland is now being written off as a bust by their fans and White Sox fans are clinging to hope Richar develops into something good, when Richar is actually the older player of the 2? I do agree, unless KW improves the roster by a great amount before the season starts, you might as well see what Richar can do playing full time during the heart of the season.

Richar was a much more raw player, Marte was supposed to being very ready for the bigs at a younger age.

[Dick Allen]

Richar was a much more raw player, Marte was supposed to being very ready for the bigs at a younger age.

I haven't seen Marte much, but if you look at his minor league numbers they really weren't eye popping. Either he's taking a longer time to develop than what a lot of people thought, or he really was never all that good.

[scenario]

Is there a reason that there's been no activity as of late? Tell me if I'm wrong, but do the Sox have two shortstops, a gap in the rotation left by Garland, no leadoff hitter, no centerfielder, and no confirmation of this Ramirez deal, while Crede is still here. "What's the dilio?"

 

On Scott Reifert's blog, he says the baseball industry is 'closed' between Christmas eve (December 21st for the Sox offices) and January 3rd.

Edited January 1, 2008 by scenario

[scenario]

Isn't it funny Marte in Cleveland is now being written off as a bust by their fans and White Sox fans are clinging to hope Richar develops into something good, when Richar is actually the older player of the 2?

 

Well...

 

Marte has had two bad years in AAA back-to-back... his major league stats are worse than Brian Anderson's... and he's out of options.

 

Meanwhile, Richar is only 5 months older (Danny turned 24 in June; Marte turned 24 in November). And Richar has had three very good minor league seasons back-to-back including absolutely tearing up the league Marte has been struggling in.

 

That could have something to do with it.

 

 

Edited January 1, 2008 by scenario