whitesoxbrian Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Jul 24, 2008 -> 01:52 PM) All highlighted players were important parts of the World Series team, characterizing them as "whatever" moves does them quite a disservice. Also, a deadline deal for another player that helped win the world series was Esteban Loaiza for Jose Contreras in the last hour before the deadline. That's what I'm saying- at the time, they were whatever moves that nobody thought would help. He never brings in a huge name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Jul 24, 2008 -> 12:08 PM) That's what I'm saying- at the time, they were whatever moves that nobody thought would help. He never brings in a huge name. Freddy Garcia was the biggest name on the pitching trade market in 2004 IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 24, 2008 -> 02:21 PM) seriously, on what planet is Brian Roberts a superstar? Â I believe we are saying the same thing here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxbrian Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 24, 2008 -> 02:10 PM) Freddy Garcia was the biggest name on the pitching trade market in 2004 IIRC. Lowe, Carpenter, Clemens, Clement, and Pavano were all bigger names, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 ok, the 'kenny never makes a big move at the deadline' nonsense has to stop. Â does anyone really think he has a philosophy that says 'i won't make a big deal at the deadline that will help my team'? gmafb. Â what gm makes a big-name deal every year? no one. Â the market and your resources dictate what move you make or don't make. when the deal was right kw picked up a guy who was key. when it wasn't, he didn't. Â personally i don't think he's going to make a big deal. but that's because i don't think we have the resources to get it done, not because 'kw never does big deadline deals.' jesus, could we have at least a slight bit of sophistication when we look at stuff like this. sheesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 24, 2008 Author Share Posted July 24, 2008 QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Jul 24, 2008 -> 03:12 PM) Lowe, Carpenter, Clemens, Clement, and Pavano were all bigger names, IMO. How many of them were traded during the season? KW brings in big names. Wells, Colon, Dye. Roberto Alomar was a big name. Everett was an All Star the year he acquired him. Billy Koch was a big name. Some would say Swisher and Thome and Cabrera were big names. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 24, 2008 Author Share Posted July 24, 2008 QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jul 24, 2008 -> 02:17 PM) And how many of them were moved that year?? Not only that but how are Carpenter, Clement and Pavano bigger names than Freddy at the time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Jul 24, 2008 -> 04:12 PM) Lowe, Carpenter, Clemens, Clement, and Pavano were all bigger names, IMO.  Fixed.  Lowe wasnt having his best year and was in Boston. They needed him, I dont remember him being available Carpenter was in his first good year and coming off an injury. At that point he wasnt as good as Freddy Clemens was in Houston b/c he wanted to be. He was not on the market. Clement? Seriously? He's never been more than a 3 or 4 Pavano i think was still with Florida. Cant remember if they were in the race or not, but i still would have rated Freddy higher  IMO, Fredy Garcia was the biggest pitcher actually available, and if I remember correctly, there were several other teams after him when we made the deal. Edited July 24, 2008 by ChiSox_Sonix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxbrian Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 QUOTE (thedoctor @ Jul 24, 2008 -> 03:14 PM) ok, the 'kenny never makes a big move at the deadline' nonsense has to stop. does anyone really think he has a philosophy that says 'i won't make a big deal at the deadline that will help my team'? gmafb.  what gm makes a big-name deal every year? no one.  the market and your resources dictate what move you make or don't make. when the deal was right kw picked up a guy who was key. when it wasn't, he didn't.  personally i don't think he's going to make a big deal. but that's because i don't think we have the resources to get it done, not because 'kw never does big deadline deals.' jesus, could we have at least a slight bit of sophistication when we look at stuff like this. sheesh. Well, no s***. But KW never does. Some GMs sometimes do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 24, 2008 Author Share Posted July 24, 2008 QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Jul 24, 2008 -> 03:27 PM) Well, no s***. But KW never does. Some GMs sometimes do. Garcia, Contreras. 40% of a WS rotation. One guy won 17 consecutive decisions. Name some of the big names traded that KW should have acquired? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Jul 24, 2008 -> 08:27 PM) Well, no s***. But KW never does. Some GMs sometimes do. Â keep digging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Jul 24, 2008 -> 02:27 PM) Well, no s***. But KW never does. Some GMs sometimes do. Â how many different times do we have to show you that he does? Â And nobody has even mentioned the moves he makes in the offseason, like say, CARLOS QUENTIN Edited July 24, 2008 by kyyle23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 Pitchers traded during the 2004 season:  Jeremy Griffiths Dave Weathers Gabe White Denny Bautista Jason Grimsley Mike Wood Octavio Dotel Freddy Garcia Jimmy Anderson Gary Majewski Jon Rauch Mike Dejean Scott Randall Terry Adams Todd Jones Brad Penny Josh Hancock Andy Machado Guillermo Mota Felix Rodriguez Bill Murphy Bartolome Fortunato Jose Diaz Kris Benson Jon Huber Francis Beltran Tom Martin Esteban Loaiza Jose Contreras Ismael Valdez Travis Chick Scott Erickson Jeriome Robertson Cory Lidle Elmer Dessens Mike Venafro Dan Wheeler  Freddy was a HUGE get, especially when you consider in the fact that he was mainly bidding against the Yankees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 24, 2008 Author Share Posted July 24, 2008 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 24, 2008 -> 02:39 PM) Pitchers traded during the 2004 season: Jeremy Griffiths Dave Weathers Gabe White Denny Bautista Jason Grimsley Mike Wood Octavio Dotel Freddy Garcia Jimmy Anderson Gary Majewski Jon Rauch Mike Dejean Scott Randall Terry Adams Todd Jones Brad Penny Josh Hancock Andy Machado Guillermo Mota Felix Rodriguez Bill Murphy Bartolome Fortunato Jose Diaz Kris Benson Jon Huber Francis Beltran Tom Martin Esteban Loaiza Jose Contreras Ismael Valdez Travis Chick Scott Erickson Jeriome Robertson Cory Lidle Elmer Dessens Mike Venafro Dan Wheeler  Freddy was a HUGE get, especially when you consider in the fact that he was mainly bidding against the Yankees. Considering salary and hype, Garcia and Contreras were probably the 2 biggest names on the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 And that we got Garcia to sign a 3 year deal after trading for him was a masterstroke, especially considering we only gave up a journeyman catcher, a 4th OF, and a fringe infielder. Â Excellent trade that was by Kenny. He wins most of the time when he makes a deal as we've come to see here over the past few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sircaffey Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 24, 2008 -> 02:22 PM) Not only that but how are Carpenter, Clement and Pavano bigger names than Freddy at the time? Â Apparently you have to had made more than 2 all-star games, had more than 1 18 win season (by the age of 27), and have a lower ERA than 3.20 at the time of the trade. The Red Sox (or Yanks? or both?) wanted Freddy badly IIRC. If he would have went to to one of them instead, god knows how much of a hype Freddy would have gotten. Edited July 24, 2008 by sircaffey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWhiteSoxinNJ Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 Alex Cora? No thanks.  Juan Uribe-2B-White Sox Jul. 24 - 5:23 pm et  According to FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal, the White Sox would get back Alex Cora if they sent Juan Uribe to Boston.  Uribe is making $4.5 million this year, while Cora is at $2 million, so the teams would split the remaining difference in salaries if the trade got done. Rosenthal believes the White Sox could play Cora at second base, move Alexei Ramirez to short and trade Orlando Cabrera to the Dodgers for Derek Lowe. That seems a little far-fetched, though. The Red Sox obviously see Uribe as an upgrade from Cora, particularly since their need is at shortstop. Cora is sure-handed enough, but he doesn't have the same range as Uribe, even if Uribe has lost a step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 24, 2008 -> 12:39 PM) Pitchers traded during the 2004 season: Jeremy Griffiths Dave Weathers Gabe White Denny Bautista Jason Grimsley Mike Wood Octavio Dotel Freddy Garcia Jimmy Anderson Gary Majewski Jon Rauch Mike Dejean Scott Randall Terry Adams Todd Jones Brad Penny Josh Hancock Andy Machado Guillermo Mota Felix Rodriguez Bill Murphy Bartolome Fortunato Jose Diaz Kris Benson Jon Huber Francis Beltran Tom Martin Esteban Loaiza Jose Contreras Ismael Valdez Travis Chick Scott Erickson Jeriome Robertson Cory Lidle Elmer Dessens Mike Venafro Dan Wheeler  Freddy was a HUGE get, especially when you consider in the fact that he was mainly bidding against the Yankees. Brad Penny is the only other person you could put on the same level as Garcia and he was acquired as part of a big deal which included LoDuca and Mota (IIRC). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 The Sox would be significantly weakening there lineup in such a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 24, 2008 Author Share Posted July 24, 2008 If the plan was to trade OC for Lowe and have Cora play everyday, they might as well DL Crede, move Ramirez to third and call up Oney Guillen. That would be ridiculous. Give the Red Sox the better player and pay them the difference in salaries? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 QUOTE (DBAH0 @ Jul 24, 2008 -> 03:43 PM) And that we got Garcia to sign a 3 year deal after trading for him was a masterstroke, especially considering we only gave up a journeyman catcher, a 4th OF, and a fringe infielder. Excellent trade that was by Kenny. He wins most of the time when he makes a deal as we've come to see here over the past few years.  at the time, it was a future starting catcher, a future #2 hitter (comparable to Mark Kotsay), and a boom or bust middle infield prospect. Olivo's onto his 5th different organization and Jeremy Reed is comparable to Brian Anderson in terms of being a "bust" though still a very valuable player. Mike Morse, the throw-in of the deal, has arguably been the most productive player in the majors, though he's never been given a shot; he was also suspended for steroid use. Anything and everything pertaining to a Freddy Garcia trade makes KW's all-time top 5 best trades ever. He should sign him just to trade him again.  QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 24, 2008 -> 06:54 PM) If the plan was to trade OC for Lowe and have Cora play everyday, they might as well DL Crede, move Ramirez to third and call up Oney Guillen. That would be ridiculous. Give the Red Sox the better player and pay them the difference in salaries?  Dick, I literally could not agree any more with you. If KW makes that deal, Theo better atleast cuddle with him afterwards, because he is bending him over the table and sticking it to him. That's why I can't believe that's how it's happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 8:48pm: Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe says the Red Sox backed away from a potential Uribe deal, opting to stick with Cora as Jed Lowrie's backup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Yay! And the Ewok village rejoices! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Gammons confirmed on Mike and Mike this morning that he doubts Uribe goes to Boston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Always sounded like a Boston piece with no real truth behind it, Boston backed off the deal?????? Come on, nice media spin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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