smalls2598 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 2, 2009 -> 07:34 AM) In this day and age, that contract is untouchable unless the Jays coughed up at least 50 million dollars. That is one UGGGGLY contract. yikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 2, 2009 -> 06:47 AM) The popular rumor right now is Rolen, future closer Brandon League + cash subsidy for Rolen's contract FOR Fields and another prospect. Us give up Fields in that deal? Nyet! The Blue Jays have ZERO leverage. I think they'd throw League in just to get somebody to take Rolen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanInDallas Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Mar 2, 2009 -> 05:12 AM) KW should be fired it he did something like that. Wells is probably the one player I think is move overrated than Michael Young and his contract is actually worse. Isn't Wells out a month right now anyways? 2009: $10 million, 2010: $21 million, 2011: $23 million (can opt out after season), 2012: $21 million, 2013: $21 million, 2014: $21 million, 2015: Free Agent For a career line of .283/.332/.496/.812 with questionable health. This would be worse than signing Hunter or equvialent to the Cubs' signing of Alfonso Soriano. Funny you make that comparison because Wells and Young are very good friends. That is all I ever hear on the news when Toronto comes to town to play the Rangers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Considering all the bargains that were available in free agency, I can't see the Sox taking any of the Blue Jays high priced players. It would be absurd to take Rolen's contract and pass on guys like Hudson and Cruz even Furcal who probably makes less than Rolen. I think if the Sox make a trade with Toronto, they will go after a reliever or minor leaguers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 2, 2009 -> 07:04 AM) So how the heck does that make sense for the Sox? Viciedo gets blocked. The Sox add payroll. What the heck happens with Cabrera? I don't buy this stuff for a second. I get the feeling Viciedo is not in their plans at third. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 2, 2009 -> 09:21 AM) Considering all the bargains that were available in free agency, I can't see the Sox taking any of the Blue Jays high priced players. It would be absurd to take Rolen's contract and pass on guys like Hudson and Cruz even Furcal who probably makes less than Rolen. I think if the Sox make a trade with Toronto, they will go after a reliever or minor leaguers. No doubt. IF the Sox make a trade with the Jays involving Cabrera, it will be for someone that no one has ever heard of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Scotty Downs wouldn't be a bad target. Would allow for the Sox to start Poreda in AAA also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 We're not getting a high end prospect. If they aren't willing to give up the draft picks, then they aren't willing to give up a top prospect. I doubt it would be anyone in their top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 (edited) Its not only Toronto's pick the Sox would lose, but the supplemental as well. You would have to figure that's at least $2 million in signing bonuses. If they want OC bad enough either make them give up a guy like League (who I would rather have than pay the picks who chances are won't pan out) or make them give up their pick or let OC rot on the sidelines. He had his chance to accept arb and screwed up. Edited March 2, 2009 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 2, 2009 -> 04:13 AM) My sister's bf is a big white sox fan and also interned at the radio station that Ozzie Guillen Jr does a radio show at in spanish and he says has heard ( I assume off the air) Ozzie Guillen Jr talking about stuff that Ozzie told him about Cabrera. Basically I guess he called him the biggest, most selfish tool to ever put on a White sox uniform in both his playing and managing days. Bigger then Thomas, Belle...supposedly when KW offered Cabrera arbitration ozzie told him if he accepts it and stayed here (which it looks like now he should've) he was prepared to use 24 men and charge his ass rent for it to stay on the bench all year... Don't know if it;'s true but certainly sounds like ozzie loved this quote from mlbtraderumors.com Well, Josh Fields for Scott Rolen and Brandon League would make sense for the White Sox, if they ate $6-8 million of Rolen's contract and/or the signing bonus, but it would block Viciedo for two seasons at the position where he has maximal value. Otherwise, it's not hard to imagine the logic of spending $5 million per season on someone like Abreu for LF/DH/1B. In other words, which would have the higher payoff statistically, Bob Abreu for the 2009/10 seasons for $10 million or Dayan Viciedo for 4 years at $10 million??? In all fairness to KW, that contract now seems a little like an anomaly, but it's still nothing compared to the money teams like the Yankees, Cubs and Braves have outlaid on multiple players over the long-term...or that crazy Raul Ibanez one in Philly. Something a lot of people on this site were saying very early in the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Mar 2, 2009 -> 10:22 AM) I get the feeling Viciedo is not in their plans at third. Based on what? If KW wanted to spend $10 million on a kid whose best years undoubtedly could be with another organization, I think he did it envisioning Viciedo at a position where his bat was at a premium weapon, which is 3B and possibly RF (because of his arm). If he's going to play LF/DH/1B, there are 20 of those types of guys on the market...the Scott Hatteberg/Lyle Overbay/Kevin Youkilis/Dan Johnson value pick-up highlighted in Moneyball. Unless KW really has the prescience to project almost Miguel Cabrera/Pujols type numbers, that contract's not going to turn out to be a bargain unless he's at third or RF. Same thing with Beckham and Alexei Ramirez in the middle infield....move Beckham to 3B or Alexei to CF and they're not going to produce much more than the major league average. Lillibridge, same thing, if he comes around offensively, his prime value to another club would be at SS...but in this market, "defense first" SS's like Cabrera, Uribe and Everett aren't getting much love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 2, 2009 -> 10:53 AM) Its not only Toronto's pick the Sox would lose, but the supplemental as well. You would have to figure that's at least $2 million in signing bonuses. If they want OC bad enough either make them give up a guy like League (who I would rather have than pay the picks who chances are won't pan out) or make them give up their pick or let OC rot on the sidelines. He had his chance to accept arb and screwed up. Seeing how TOR has pretty much pwned us this decade (especially up there), I think KW has a very good idea who we'd target from that relief staff. If anything, they might be OVERVALUED because they look so good against the White Sox on almost an annual basis. Plus, we picked up Jimenez when they let him go as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Aftr watching the horrendous defensive play of Wilson Betemit in Sundays ST games versus the Dodgers maybe we should make an offer to Cabrera and keep him at short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 QUOTE (jenks45monster @ Mar 1, 2009 -> 07:53 PM) Travis Snider for OC straight up would be nice. What are you on? I want some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I cant believe how much play Betemits SPRING TRAINING errors are getting around here. GMAB, it isnt as if it was a playoff game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Isnt a sign and trade impossible in baseball due to all the contract rules and such? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Mar 2, 2009 -> 10:27 AM) Aftr watching the horrendous defensive play of Wilson Betemit in Sundays ST games versus the Dodgers maybe we should make an offer to Cabrera and keep him at short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Mar 2, 2009 -> 10:32 AM) Isnt a sign and trade impossible in baseball due to all the contract rules and such? It usually is, but because of the economy, baseball is supposedly letting these happen on a special exemption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Mar 2, 2009 -> 05:31 PM) I cant believe how much play Betemits SPRING TRAINING errors are getting around here. GMAB, it isnt as if it was a playoff game You must understand we Sox fans want wins in every game. Failing to get a victory, or making mental mistakes like errors, or even striking out means the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Mar 2, 2009 -> 05:32 PM) Isnt a sign and trade impossible in baseball due to all the contract rules and such? That's what I thought plus wouldn't OC have to agree to all this? Maybe not though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 (edited) A recent Ken Rosenthal article about MLB amending rules to allow "sign and trade" type deals. Edited March 2, 2009 by scenario Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 QUOTE (scenario @ Mar 2, 2009 -> 11:45 AM) A recent Ken Rosenthal article about MLB amending rules to allow "sign and trade" type deals. Interesting, I hadnt heard about that. I read this whole thread thinking the discussion was pointless haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Mar 2, 2009 -> 10:40 AM) That's what I thought plus wouldn't OC have to agree to all this? Maybe not though Well, duh, he'd have to sign the contract. If it got him a job of course he'd do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Mar 2, 2009 -> 10:27 AM) Aftr watching the horrendous defensive play of Wilson Betemit in Sundays ST games versus the Dodgers maybe we should make an offer to Cabrera and keep him at short. no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Escobar Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Mar 1, 2009 -> 10:50 PM) Put together a package for Vernon Wells. Haven't gone through the whole thread but I saw this a couple minutes on the internet of Toronto getting involved in O.Cab. I don't think they'll deal a top prospect, although it should be what we require noting Cabrera's type-a status. I'd assume they'd bite on a pretty good player depending on how we play this, if we kick in something, if Oakland raises their stakes. This idea of Wells isn't a bad one. I know he is dramatically overpaid since he never quite repeated his big season(s) where he was given the money. The Jays do have an overstock in the OF. With Lind, Snider, Rios (another overrated player IMO) and Wells, you'd hope one of them could be had. I'd say the Cabrera deal and something decent from our end. If it is to be Wells, they'd have to eat it but I doubt we'll get him. I'd like to get Cecil, but with the loss of Burnett/health concerns with other arms/and Halladay most likely out the door, I don't see them dealing young, cheap arms. Our ceiling may be a guy like Luis Perez and another quality young arm. If I were Kenny though, I don't help O.Cab out unless I am getting a nice haul for him. Problem is, Kenny hasn't exactly been landing hauls for our players lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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