Ozzie Guillen

[kitekrazy]

Lifelong? Wow. If they came in last place the next 4 years you'd be perfectly fine with that?

 

That's when you start wanting a new GM. With both Kenny and Ozzie that is very unlikely to happen but if it did, I bet they would both quit.

 

[ThunderBolt]

Gone baby, gone. Give me a manager who gives a damn about tactics and lineups.

[BigSqwert]

Gone baby, gone. Give me a manager who gives a damn about tactics and lineups.

You're not impressed with his decision to bat a guy hitting .187 with RISP during a pennant race?

[Milkman delivers]

So Ozzie at worst is a top 10 manager.

 

Out of the 30 people who are currently acting as a manager in Major League Baseball, sure you can argue that. That doesn't mean there are people who are currently bench coaches, minor league managers, former players not currently doing anything, out-of-work managers, or guys walking down the street who may also be better.

[mmmmmbeeer]

So Ozzie at worst is a top 10 manager.

 

He's immediately ranked below every American League manager because he quite simply does not comprehend that you do not manage/field an AL club like it's competing in the NL. So that places him 14th right off the bat.

 

But if he were in the the NL he wouldn't be the best NL manager either....I'd place Manuel, Torre, Cox, Black, and Tracy all above him.

 

So yeah, I'd put him about 19th in the league. I wish these SABR guys would come up with a manager stat.

[Balta1701]

So yeah, I'd put him about 19th in the league. I wish these SABR guys would come up with a manager stat.

The thing is...if there was a SABR manager stat, Ozzie would almost certainly score ridiculously well, because for the last 6 years, his teams have consistently outperformed the preseason projections and the pythagorean projections.

[mmmmmbeeer]

The thing is...if there was a SABR manager stat, Ozzie would almost certainly score ridiculously well, because for the last 6 years, his teams have consistently outperformed the preseason projections and the pythagorean projections.

 

I think it would be a situational analysis as opposed to a holistic season analysis. Every other stat is a culmination of small instances over the course of a season, not sure why a manager stat would be any different.

 

For instance, and I'm no SABR guy, but i believe SABR frowns heavily on sac bunts and yet OG is all about a sac bunt. By atleast that single variable, despite a World Series win in 2005, SABR would consider him a poor manager.

Edited August 17, 2010 by mmmmmbeeer

[lostfan]

c, c

 

Not enamored with Ozzie, the shine of 2005 started wearing off sometime in 2008 (despite winning the division) but I don't blame him (solely) for this team being what it is right now - for example, the pathetic start to the season wasn't his fault. At the same time I wouldn't really be all that upset if he was gone either, for the reasons BigSqwert stated early in the thread. I think a manager's influence on a MLB team is pretty overrated most of the time, although you can't really just make your team start winning more by saying "guys you need to play better."

[The Ginger Kid]

I think a manager's influence on a MLB team is pretty overrated most of the time

there are exceptions, though. especially the orioles of late. Pinella used to have the magic touch as well.

 

seems a manager can do more harm than good, in a weird way. Or maybe it's just that their mistakes are more magnified (Grady Little).

[lostfan]

there are exceptions, though. especially the orioles of late. Pinella used to have the magic touch as well.

 

seems a manager can do more harm than good, in a weird way. Or maybe it's just that their mistakes are more magnified (Grady Little).

I was going to say this but it would've changed the direction of my post. I think the amount of "magic" a manager has is limited by time. Kind of like how in the NBA you bring in a disciplinarian coach (like Scott Skiles) and you always get improvement at first and then the players tune him out after a couple of years.

[fathom]

Mark Kotsay should never be allowed to face a LHP. Too bad he was given a chance in one of the biggest ABs of the season. Gardenhire OWNED Ozzie in that inning...nothing new

[SoxFan1]

Why does he only get 1 more year either way? If we win the World Series this year, "give him one more year" is a pretty ridiculous option.

[fathom]

I want to see a re-vote!

[SoxFan1]

I was one of Ozzie's biggest backers but it's slowly been wavering. This is the straw that broke the camel's back.

[SoxAce]

"Don't hate me, hate the White Sox"

 

I don't think that will go according to plan as he thought.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Honestly, if you were a player in the clubhouse, could you even respect your manager after the last week?

[fathom]

Honestly, if you were a player in the clubhouse, could you even respect your manager after the last week?

 

Sure, if you were latino and felt slighted you didn't have an interpreter.

[IamtheHBOMB]

The one good thing to come out of this is that KW will be able to tell Ozzie to shut the f*** up from now on when he gives his ridiculous input on roster moves

Edited August 18, 2010 by IamtheHBOMB

[fathom]

The one good thing to come out of this is that KW will be able to tell Ozzie to shut the f*** up from now on when he gives his ridiculous input on roster moves

 

That's if KW returns next season...still think he'll go the Paxson route.

[Buehrle>Wood]

You think the Hahn era will start now?

[fathom]

You think the Hahn era will start now?

 

Yes...as in starting around November. No inside information or anything like that. Just a hunch.

[southsideirish71]

They can't get rid of Guillen....the factory that makes his assistant coaching contraption might go out of business.

 

 

 

 

[lostfan]

They can't get rid of Guillen....the factory that makes his assistant coaching contraption might go out of business.

 

 

I laugh but...

[BigSqwert]

One glaring flaw in Ozzie is that he hasn't learned in all these years of managing is optimizing the 25 man roster you're given. Had Thome returned he would have been used as an every day DH batting 4th or 5th and would have worn down by August like he had in his previous years with us. Ozzie never looks at stats and splits so he wouldn't have done what Gardenhire has effectively done this season. And look at all of the 25th men on the team each year that get overused and played out of position. Kotsay, Wise, Makowiak, etc aren't bad 24th or 25th men. They just need to be used correctly. These are part time players, pinch hitters, pinch runners and not everyday players the way they have been with us. The fact that Ozzie still misuses his roster like this is a sign that he will continue to do so. A major league manager should know better than that.

[mmmmmbeeer]

It was quite comical last night listening to Bremer and Blyleven try to make sense of Kotsay hitting in the 5th with the bases loaded against Perkins. They just kept repeating how Kotsay was 0-21 against LHP this season. Must've been some of that gut managing by the ole Ozzerooooo.