Chris Sale Appreciation Thread (FIRE KEITH LAW)

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Freddy's probably gone and Sale will probably start in AAA.

 

Well obviously if we don't trade a starter, but I would not be opposed to it. We have one of the most expensive rotations in baseball with Peavy, Buehrle, Jackson, Danks, and Floyd. I wouldn't mind trading either Danks or Floyd to relieve some money and sliding Sale into the rotation, or Freddy on the cheap while Sale stretched out in AA.

[BearingPro]

He is going to be expensive through arbitration, and we have potentially 7 starters next year (if you include Freddy).

 

Danks better get it together for the stretch run.

 

With is inconsistent control, I don't see him deserving major dollars...perhaps he gets traded this winter???

[BearingPro]

....Sale will probably start in AAA.

 

Why???

 

[RockRaines]

Well obviously if we don't trade a starter, but I would not be opposed to it. We have one of the most expensive rotations in baseball with Peavy, Buehrle, Jackson, Danks, and Floyd. I wouldn't mind trading either Danks or Floyd to relieve some money and sliding Sale into the rotation, or Freddy on the cheap while Sale stretched out in AA.

And thats not because of Danks and Floyd, keep that in mind. Its how top heavy the rotation is on price. Ideally, you deal Buehrle because you cant move Peavy. Floyd makes I believe 3.5, Danks should get 5+ and Jackson is at 8.

Edited September 2, 2010 by RockRaines

[daggins]

Sale might even start in AA as the pitching coach there seems to be more highly regarded by the org. If he is going to be a starter he should absolutely be in the minors for at least part of the season.

[knightni]

Why???

Because they already have 5 very good starters under contract for 2011.

 

Why rush it?

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Why???

 

I would think he would start in AA. Better competition there.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

And thats not because of Danks and Floyd, keep that in mind. Its how top heavy the rotation is on price. Ideally, you deal Buehrle because you cant move Peavy. Floyd makes I believe 3.5, Danks should get 5+ and Jackson is at 8.

 

I heard Danks may make as much as around $7-8M in ARB. I think he is the best option to trade, mainly because he will get more value than Buehrle, and Buehrle is such an icon for this team that it would piss a LOT of people off.

[RockRaines]

I heard Danks may make as much as around $7-8M in ARB. I think he is the best option to trade, mainly because he will get more value than Buehrle, and Buehrle is such an icon for this team that it would piss a LOT of people off.

So you keep him out of sentimental value? I trade Buehrle LONG before I trade Danks, simply because Danks is a much better value even at 7M than Buehrle is at 14M. He's my favorite Sox player and I would be sad to see him go, but understand.

 

Do you think Buehrle is worth twice the money of John Danks?

[jenksycat]

So you keep him out of sentimental value? I trade Buehrle LONG before I trade Danks, simply because Danks is a much better value even at 7M than Buehrle is at 14M. He's my favorite Sox player and I would be sad to see him go, but understand.

 

Do you think Buehrle is worth twice the money of John Danks?

 

How do you magically get a team to trade more or equal amount of talent for MB over Danks?

[danman31]

I would think he would start in AA. Better competition there.

Better talent maybe, not better competition.

[Ozzie Ball]

Sale may be a reliever in the future.

 

With his mechanics you could risk an injury like Strasburg if he is pitching 100+ pitches. Conversely as a reliever you may get 10+ years of success.

 

I think the Sox are going to have to make a difficult decision.

I'd let him break down before I'd even consider moving him to the 'pen. If he shows that his body can't handle 200 innings a year, then, and only then, would I would move him to the bullpen.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

 

So you keep him out of sentimental value? I trade Buehrle LONG before I trade Danks, simply because Danks is a much better value even at 7M than Buehrle is at 14M. He's my favorite Sox player and I would be sad to see him go, but understand.

 

Do you think Buehrle is worth twice the money of John Danks?

 

....

 

 

I heard Danks may make as much as around $7-8M in ARB. I think he is the best option to trade, mainly because he will get more value than Buehrle, and Buehrle is such an icon for this team that it would piss a LOT of people off.

 

[Soxbadger]

I guess I would prefer none of the Sox players "break down".

 

If the Sox have 5 great starters next year Sale could really help the pen.

 

Otherwise expect sale to be in the minors.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I guess I would prefer none of the Sox players "break down".

 

If the Sox have 5 great starters next year Sale could really help the pen.

Otherwise expect sale to be in the minors.

 

I would say there is about a 10% chance Sale is in our bullpen next year. It would be a real waste to not stretch him out for a future starting job.

[Soxbadger]

Depends on what the Sox priorities are. Do they care more about 2-3 years from now, or do they care more about winning next year.

 

Ideally they can get solid vets for the bullpen and Sale could start in the minors. But who knows what will happen.

[RockRaines]

How do you magically get a team to trade more or equal amount of talent for MB over Danks?

So if Danks is more valuable overall, why are we trading him? Danks+ a player, perhaps Konerko's new paycheck is worth more than what we would get back in a trade.

[caulfield12]

How do you magically get a team to trade more or equal amount of talent for MB over Danks?

 

Therein lies the dilemma...we're not going to get anything substantial of value in return for Buehrle, and it's going to be difficult to replace those innings.

 

The biggest risks would be trading either Danks, Floyd or Thornton (if Sale's to stay in the pen), but those are the players who can bring equal talent back.

 

We're obviously not going to trade Beckham or Ramirez, Rios' contract is at best "fair" but certainly not a bargain and everyone in baseball knows all the issues associated with Carlos Quentin.

 

After Danks/Floyd/Thornton, you'd have to look at trading either Viciedo or Mitchell, and I don't see that happening either.

 

The idea of trading Jackson isn't logical to me, because where in baseball are we going to find someone who is an ace for $8 million?

[SoxAce]

I'd let him break down before I'd even consider moving him to the 'pen. If he shows that his body can't handle 200 innings a year, then, and only then, would I would move him to the bullpen.

 

Agreed. You don't draft a kid that high (top 15) only to turn him into a reliever. Most relievers failed as starting pitchers anyway. Let him start, and if he isn't good/injury prone/only a couple good pitches in arsenal/can't handle the workload, etc., then make the move.

Edited September 2, 2010 by J.Reedfan8

[caulfield12]

So if Danks is more valuable overall, why are we trading him? Danks+ a player, perhaps Konerko's new paycheck is worth more than what we would get back in a trade.

 

On the logic side, we should be able to use the money saved from Buehrle's contract to improve our CLUB, if KW makes the right moves.

 

The problem with letting Buehrle or Konerko go is that it's also going to adversely affect your season ticket sales going into 2010...so we might save the money from Mark's contract, but end up actually doing more harm than good to incoming revenues. Sure, if we ended up leading the ALCD in April and May next year, we could theoretically make some of it back over the course of the season like our July-July stretch has done for us the last couple of months, but it's a big gamble no matter what KW does.

 

All we can do is go by past history. KW has approached the starters in the past and parted company with the one who wouldn't sign a long-term contract...there's no reason to think he wouldn't do the same thing again with Danks.

 

Danks has a lot of value to the White Sox, obviously...but he has incredible value because of the cost controls over the next two seasons to other clubs as well.

 

Maybe I'm underestimating the Buehrle market, he has run off an impressive string of quality starts in the last 3 months, but what clubs out there are going to take his contract and give us equal talent? It's going to be more of a salary relief move...and maybe it's possible for just one season, but I'm not convinced the cost savings won't be undermined by public relations damage from dealing Mark. It's the classic Catch 22, your head says to try to trade Mark and your heart says to keep him and Konerko.

 

Of course, that's how we ended up signing Jose Contreras to a bad contract, so we have to be careful...every possible move (including standing pat) is fraught with risk.

[dmbjeff]

On the logic side, we should be able to use the money saved from Buehrle's contract to improve our CLUB, if KW makes the right moves.

 

The problem with letting Buehrle or Konerko go is that it's also going to adversely affect your season ticket sales going into 2010...so we might save the money from Mark's contract, but end up actually doing more harm than good to incoming revenues. Sure, if we ended up leading the ALCD in April and May next year, we could theoretically make some of it back over the course of the season like our July-July stretch has done for us the last couple of months, but it's a big gamble no matter what KW does.

 

All we can do is go by past history. KW has approached the starters in the past and parted company with the one who wouldn't sign a long-term contract...there's no reason to think he wouldn't do the same thing again with Danks.

 

Danks has a lot of value to the White Sox, obviously...but he has incredible value because of the cost controls over the next two seasons to other clubs as well.

 

Maybe I'm underestimating the Buehrle market, he has run off an impressive string of quality starts in the last 3 months, but what clubs out there are going to take his contract and give us equal talent? It's going to be more of a salary relief move...and maybe it's possible for just one season, but I'm not convinced the cost savings won't be undermined by public relations damage from dealing Mark. It's the classic Catch 22, your head says to try to trade Mark and your heart says to keep him and Konerko.

 

Of course, that's how we ended up signing Jose Contreras to a bad contract, so we have to be careful...every possible move (including standing pat) is fraught with risk.

 

Mark makes an absurd amount of money considering what he brings to the table. I love him as much as the next guy but if you had a comparable SP, let's say Ted Lilly to compare him with, I am sure that guy isn't making $14 mil. His biggest asset is his ability to eat up innings and be consistant but you can get that from alot of other guys in baseball and for a cheaper salary. I just don't think too many GM's see Buehrle as being worth it.

 

[caulfield12]

Mark makes an absurd amount of money considering what he brings to the table. I love him as much as the next guy but if you had a comparable SP, let's say Ted Lilly to compare him with, I am sure that guy isn't making $14 mil. His biggest asset is his ability to eat up innings and be consistant but you can get that from alot of other guys in baseball and for a cheaper salary. I just don't think too many GM's see Buehrle as being worth it.

 

Ted Lilly is making $13 million this season!

 

I think your last sentence, you've answered the question...it would be very difficult to trade Buehrle, it would be a public relations nightmare if he was pitching in the AL and not for the Cardinals and it's one of those things where you don't realize how much you miss a player until he's gone, especially in the clubhouse.

 

Yes, you can find cheaper pitchers. If you look at the Top 40 MLB ERA leaders, you'll find the names Gio Gonzalez, Jon Garland and Clayton Richard.

[dmbjeff]

Ted Lilly is making $13 million this season!

 

I think your last sentence, you've answered the question...it would be very difficult to trade Buehrle, it would be a public relations nightmare if he was pitching in the AL and not for the Cardinals and it's one of those things where you don't realize how much you miss a player until he's gone, especially in the clubhouse.

 

Yes, you can find cheaper pitchers. If you look at the Top 40 MLB ERA leaders, you'll find the names Gio Gonzalez, Jon Garland and Clayton Richard.

 

but what will lilly be worth in 2011 when he hits free agency, i doubt he will get more than $10 mil

[Quin]

Therein lies the dilemma...we're not going to get anything substantial of value in return for Buehrle, and it's going to be difficult to replace those innings.

 

The biggest risks would be trading either Danks, Floyd or Thornton (if Sale's to stay in the pen), but those are the players who can bring equal talent back.

 

We're obviously not going to trade Beckham or Ramirez, Rios' contract is at best "fair" but certainly not a bargain and everyone in baseball knows all the issues associated with Carlos Quentin.

After Danks/Floyd/Thornton, you'd have to look at trading either Viciedo or Mitchell, and I don't see that happening either.

 

The idea of trading Jackson isn't logical to me, because where in baseball are we going to find someone who is an ace for $8 million?

 

Trade Quentin and Danks 1&2 in some mega package if Danks doesn't resign for some huge bat. Perhaps A-Gon if you could get him to agree to a deal. Then, non-tender Bobby and Pena and the money saved from not paying Bobby, Quentin, Pena, or Danks could be used to resigning Paulie for DH/1B platoon with AGon, resign Putz for the BP, and try and woo Carl Crawford to play CF (I know he's a great LF, but with Rios in right and Pierre in left, Crawford would probably thrive in center, just not as much as LF). Move Sale to the rotation and have this:

 

Starting Five: Buehrle-Jackson-Sale-Floyd-Peavy

 

LF - Pierre

CF - Crawford

RF - Rios (had to break up the lefties)

DH - Paulie

1B - Gonzalez

2B - Beckham

C - AJ (only if he's cheap, if not, Flowers)

3B - Morel (I can't stand the thought of Teahen there and Vizquel won't start)

SS - Alexei

 

Bench:

 

CF/LF/2B/SS/3B - Lillibridge

RF/1B/RF/LF/3B Emergency - Teahen

2B/SS/3B - Vizquel

C - Castro

 

Bullpen:

 

CL - Putz

SU - Thornton

SU - Santos

MRP - Linebrink

MRP - Infante

LRP - Harrell

LRP - Leesman (if he does well in the AFL)

 

I have no idea where my brain went off on this tanget.

Edited September 2, 2010 by Quinarvy

[Jordan4life_2007]

Trade Quentin and Danks 1&2 in some mega package if Danks doesn't resign for some huge bat. Perhaps A-Gon if you could get him to agree to a deal. Then, non-tender Bobby and Pena and the money saved from not paying Bobby, Quentin, Pena, or Danks could be used to resigning Paulie for DH/1B platoon with AGon, resign Putz for the BP, and try and woo Carl Crawford to play CF (I know he's a great LF, but with Rios in right and Pierre in left, Crawford would probably thrive in center, just not as much as LF). Move Sale to the rotation and have this:

 

Starting Five: Buehrle-Jackson-Sale-Floyd-Peavy

 

LF - Pierre

CF - Crawford

RF - Rios (had to break up the lefties)

DH - Paulie

1B - Gonzalez

2B - Beckham

C - AJ (only if he's cheap, if not, Flowers)

3B - Morel (I can't stand the thought of Teahen there and Vizquel won't start)

SS - Alexei

 

Bench:

 

CF/LF/2B/SS/3B - Lillibridge

RF/1B/RF/LF/3B Emergency - Teahen

2B/SS/3B - Vizquel

C - Castro

 

Bullpen:

 

CL - Putz

SU - Thornton

SU - Santos

MRP - Linebrink

MRP - Infante

LRP - Harrell

LRP - Leesman (if he does well in the AFL)

 

I have no idea where my brain went off on this tanget.

 

What the hell? I have no idea where this came from. Other than the fact our middle relief would be hores***, that's easily a top 3 team in the AL. I will say though they better figure out something with Pena. They traded a quality 1B/LF prospect for him. The play he made in LF last night was incredible. I underestimated his athleticism.

Edited September 2, 2010 by Jordan4life