So Now That Pettitte Is Officially Done...

[Milkman delivers]

I agree with you on this, but he's a NYY so he'll get in eventually IMO. My favorite part of covering for Pettitte is when HGH is brought up and defenders just say "oh he admitted it and came clean" well that may be partially true, but to me guys who used it once and admitted it could have used it multiple times and are just picking when to admit to.

 

Like the A-Rod deal, he admits to it when he was in Tex playing for bad teams but then uses the excuse of pressure and being young... except to me I just think, well didn't you have pressure when you went to the NYY? And being young? maybe agewise, but he was already a seasoned vet of MLB, enough to earn enough service time to be a FA, and except the most lucrative contract of all time, you can't have those things then just hide behind "I was young" IMO.

 

Same here.

[SouthsideDon48]

It'll never happen, but I wouldn't mind seeing Kenny trade John Danks for Manuel Banuelos, Dellin Betances, and Brandon Laird.

 

I know some people think Yankees prospects are overrated, but I'd take a shot on Banuelos and Betances.

[Steve9347]

On my lunch I caught Sportscenter talking about Pettitte's Hall of Fame chances... nary a mention of steroids.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

No of course not.

 

Not a HOFer IMO. But he'll get in, I have no doubt about it. And then I wouldn't even put it past the media to trumpet the idea that him admitting to HGH may have actually helped him because it shows he has character. Used it only once? Just like everyone else who has ever gotten caught smoking, stealing, cheating, you name it- has only ever done it once!

I can also see him getting in as the first of a new standard held for starting pitchers. I don't see too many 300 game winners going forward. 200, good numbers, and an assload of playoff wins might eventually do the trick. If it ever does, he'll be the first.

Edited February 4, 2011 by Swingandalongonetoleft

[Brian]

On my lunch I caught Sportscenter talking about Pettitte's Hall of Fame chances... nary a mention of steroids.

 

Buster Olney just made a reference to it on SC and said it will keep him out.

[Dick Allen]

Buster Olney just made a reference to it on SC and said it will keep him out.

Pettite was a pretty nice pitcher, but if he's a HOF, HGH or not, they need a big expansion in Cooperstown.

[SoxFan562004]

Pettite was a pretty nice pitcher, but if he's a HOF, HGH or not, they need a big expansion in Cooperstown.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writ....html?eref=sihp

here's an SI article that will lay the groundwork for how he will eventually get in, the "increased importance on postseason." That will be the new tag-line for east-coasters to try and push fringe guys in. Just wait 10 years or so when the east coasters tsk tsk people for Jeter not getting 100% of HOF votes.

 

Notice how that article tries to establish the postseason effect but completely ignores the admitted PED use factor. I e-mailed the writer, see if I get a response. I imagine he'll say it was a stat based argument, but using the increased importance of post season.

 

Schilling had more dominant seasons during the regular seasons outside w/l and he had the crazy Arizona post season and obviously the Boston run. He will be an interesting case when he comes up.

Edited February 5, 2011 by SoxFan562004

[Balta1701]

Schilling had more dominant seasons during the regular seasons outside w/l and he had the crazy Arizona post season and obviously the Boston run. He will be an interesting case when he comes up.

Schilling is a much more interesting and possibly viable candidate than Pettitte. There were times when you could say that Schilling was one of the top pitchers in baseball, you couldn't say that with Pettitte.

[SoxFan562004]

Schilling is a much more interesting and possibly viable candidate than Pettitte. There were times when you could say that Schilling was one of the top pitchers in baseball, you couldn't say that with Pettitte.

I agree with that thought, I actually wouldn't mind Schilling getting in, certainly feel if Pettitte ever gets in than certainly Schilling should. I honestly don't mind the notion of post-season performance having more meaning, or other factors. I'm a big supporter (was a big supporter? Don't think he's eligible anymore) of Tommy John getting in due to the fact he was first to make a significant comeback with a radical new surgery. My main gripe with that article is it completely ignores the PED factor, which basically is an established factor that many HOF voters are taking into account.

Edited February 5, 2011 by SoxFan562004

[justBLAZE]

Getting back on the topic, Rogers (yea, I know) thinks it's a great idea.

[Dick Allen]

Getting back on the topic, Rogers (yea, I know) thinks it's a great idea.

Don't teams trying to win a championship trade prospects for pitchers like Danks, studs with 2 years left on their contract rather than vice versa? The window here isn't very huge with this rotation. The time is now, not hoping guys pan out in 5 years.

 

A lot of people are assuming Danks is gone in 2 years. Well, Konerko was gone, AJ was gone, Buehrle and Dye were gone in 2007. The list goes on.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Dick Allen

[Jordan4life_2007]

Don't teams trying to win a championship trade prospects for pitchers like Danks, studs with 2 years left on their contract rather than vice versa? The window here isn't very huge with this rotation. The time is now, not hoping guys pan out in 5 years.

 

A lot of people are assuming Danks is gone in 2 years. Well, Konerko was gone, AJ was gone, Buehrle and Dye were gone in 2007. The list goes on.

 

And none of those guys were going to command 5-6 year, $100+ million dollar contract on the open market. This is really a first during the KW era. A young, premium talent in his prime that could very well hit FA. We haven't had to worry about this because we don't do young talent here.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Jordan4life

[Dick Allen]

And none of those guys were going to command 5-6 year, $100+ million dollar contract on the open market. This is really a first during the KW era. A young, premium talent in his prime that could very well hit FA. We haven't had to worry about this because we don't do young talent here.

What's to worry about? You get the services of a pitcher supposedly worth 100 million for 2 season while trying to win a championship. Why worry about having the talent? Its here. Trading him for prospects and finishing in second or third place again would be ridiculous. If he does leave, you spend the money you would have spent signing him on someone else, and there is your trade, ala the Lee/Pods trade. Throw in the longshot draft picks and its a no brainer what the better option is considering the Sox current situation. BTW,Trading him now for prospects now will never happen. KW loves Danks too much, and is trying to win. Dumping him are how the Rays and Marlins and Indians operate.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Dick Allen

[Jordan4life_2007]

What's to worry about? You get the services of a pitcher supposedly worth 100 million for 2 season while trying to win a championship. Why worry about having the talent? Its here. Trading him for prospects and finishing in second or third place again would be ridiculous. If he does leave, you spend the money you would have spent signing him on someone else, and there is your trade, ala the Lee/Pods trade. Throw in the longshot draft picks and its a no brainer what the better option is considering the Sox current situation. BTW,Trading him now for prospects now will never happen. KW loves Danks too much, and is trying to win. Dumping him are how the Rays and Marlins and Indians operate.

 

He's obviously not going anywhere this year. Next year is when it gets interesting. I guess the point is this isn't even a conversation if Danks is already locked up. Just like the Tigers locked up Verlander. Just like the Marlins locked up Johnson and Nolasco. Just like the Brewers locked up Gallardo. Just like the Mariners locked up Felix. Just like the A's locked up Anderson. And in your perfect scenario, I'm supposed to believe that if they're too cheap to pony up the cash for one of the few elite talents we've had in the last decade that they would use whatever money they had to legitimately fill the massive void Danks' departure would create? Not likely. I think what KW and Co. Thought was that because Gavin chose the security that Danks would. Well they were wrong.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Jordan4life

[Jerksticks]

If these 2011-2012 "All in" teams go deep into the playoffs I don't see any reason why we wouldn't be able to swim with the big boys and offer Danks 100M. Didn't we throw 90 at Hunter?

[southsider2k5]

If these 2011-2012 "All in" teams go deep into the playoffs I don't see any reason why we wouldn't be able to swim with the big boys and offer Danks 100M. Didn't we throw 90 at Hunter?

 

No, the Angels did. We offered a lot less.

[LittleHurt05]

He's obviously not going anywhere this year. Next year is when it gets interesting. I guess the point is this isn't even a conversation if Danks is already locked up. Just like the Tigers locked up Verlander. Just like the Marlins locked up Johnson and Nolasco. Just like the Brewers locked up Gallardo. Just like the Mariners locked up Felix. Just like the A's locked up Anderson. And in your perfect scenario, I'm supposed to believe that if they're too cheap to pony up the cash for one of the few elite talents we've had in the last decade that they would use whatever money they had to legitimately fill the massive void Danks' departure would create? Not likely. I think what KW and Co. Thought was that because Gavin chose the security that Danks would. Well they were wrong.

 

How did the Sox offer to Danks compare to what Johnson/Verlander/Gallardo and crew got? I dont expect them to offer him a nine digit contract that free agency will get him, but if they offered him something similar to the comparables, then you cant be too upset, it will be on him. If they didn't, then it kind of sucks, I'm not aware of what their actual offer was.

[Jordan4life_2007]

How did the Sox offer to Danks compare to what Johnson/Verlander/Gallardo and crew got? I dont expect them to offer him a nine digit contract that free agency will get him, but if they offered him something similar to the comparables, then you cant be too upset, it will be on him. If they didn't, then it kind of sucks, I'm not aware of what their actual offer was.

 

I'd have to google or check Cots. And do we have any specifics on what Danks has been offered outside of that pathetic initial lowball?

Edited February 6, 2011 by Jordan4life

[scenario]

If these 2011-2012 "All in" teams go deep into the playoffs I don't see any reason why we wouldn't be able to swim with the big boys and offer Danks 100M. Didn't we throw 90 at Hunter?

 

The Sox offered Hunter 5 years - $75M.

 

 

[LittleHurt05]

I'd have to google or check Cots. And do we have any specifics on what Danks has been offered outside of that pathetic initial lowball?

 

All I can find on google is the original 4 year, $15.5M deal that Gavin got. I assume they have offered him something else recently, but I don't know. If they lose him cause him & his agent want more money, thats fine. But they better at least offer him a market value deal, like the ones offered to Lester/Gallardo, etc.

[Dick Allen]

All I can find on google is the original 4 year, $15.5M deal that Gavin got. I assume they have offered him something else recently, but I don't know. If they lose him cause him & his agent want more money, thats fine. But they better at least offer him a market value deal, like the ones offered to Lester/Gallardo, etc.

Danks said they haven't really had negotiations in 2 years. It doesn't mean the Sox haven't offered or aren't trying to sign him. I would doubt they go to his agent every couple weeks with an offer, but probably an understanding that if they want to talk an extension, the White Sox are very interested, perhaps with a reminder every now and then. As long as he performs, the closer he takes this to free agency, the more money John Danks makes. That's probably his camp's strategy.

[SoxFan562004]

How did the Sox offer to Danks compare to what Johnson/Verlander/Gallardo and crew got? I dont expect them to offer him a nine digit contract that free agency will get him, but if they offered him something similar to the comparables, then you cant be too upset, it will be on him. If they didn't, then it kind of sucks, I'm not aware of what their actual offer was.

if you're going to compare it with other pitchers, not only money has to be looked at but what years of arbitration and FA were bought out.

[ptatc]

And none of those guys were going to command 5-6 year, $100+ million dollar contract on the open market. This is really a first during the KW era. A young, premium talent in his prime that could very well hit FA. We haven't had to worry about this because we don't do young talent here.

 

JR will not approve a contract for a pitcher that is more than 3-4 years. The Sox have been burned too many times. I think they would hesitate but go 4 but that is it. I think Danks is gone when he hits FA.

[chw42]

The Sox offered Hunter 5 years - $75M.

 

Good thing that signing never happened.