striker Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 If Flowers continues to hit well in AAA and Pierzynski's bat never comes back, what would you do? Even if it does come back he tops out at about .330 OBP. It would be tough to trade AJ since he took a pay cut for us but business is business. If Flowers is tearing it up then it's hard to ignore him, and you can't keep trading everyone away. I personally was hoping AJ left and we gave Flowers a chance. If he continues to hit and AJ struggles then I say we ship off AJ. What would you do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 QUOTE (striker @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 03:59 PM) If Flowers continues to hit well in AAA and Pierzynski's bat never comes back, what would you do? Even if it does come back he tops out at about .330 OBP. It would be tough to trade AJ since he took a pay cut for us but business is business. If Flowers is tearing it up then it's hard to ignore him, and you can't keep trading everyone away. I personally was hoping AJ left and we gave Flowers a chance. If he continues to hit and AJ struggles then I say we ship off AJ. What would you do? You realize that its ST right. The same place where Brian Anderson looked like a god. Lets see what happens when the bell rings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Why, oh why, do people continue to draw conclusions based on Spring Training statistics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 What the organization would do and what we would do is likely pretty different. Unless the team falls flat on its face, I don't see them trading him to replace him with Flowers. They've shown that they can be taken at their word, and I'd imagine with AJ taking a pay cut, that he was led to believe that he'd be on the team through the end of his contract. I also don't know how much other teams would pay for AJ with his reputation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 03:21 PM) What the organization would do and what we would do is likely pretty different. Unless the team falls flat on its face, I don't see them trading him to replace him with Flowers. They've shown that they can be taken at their word, and I'd imagine with AJ taking a pay cut, that he was led to believe that he'd be on the team through the end of his contract. I also don't know how much other teams would pay for AJ with his reputation. That .688 OPS last year and below average defense wouldn't garner much interest either way. Not sure if it was just one of those year's for AJ or was it the beginning of the eventual decline of a 34-year old catcher with a ton of wear and tear on his body. I'm certain the expectation going into last season was that Flowers would be ready to go this year. Of course, he bombed terribly and we were just about forced to bring AJ back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 05:19 PM) You realize that its ST right. The same place where Brian Anderson looked like a god. Lets see what happens when the bell rings. Did you even read his first line...? "If Flowers continues to hit well in AAA". He answered the "let's see what happens when the bell rings" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 If Flowers is hitting .400 and AJ is hitting .123, all the pitchers hate him, he spits on Ozzie . . . We could keep creating scenarios until we hit an obvious one that AJ is canned. Instead, how about what would it take for the organization to sit AJ down? It will probably be something AJ does, not something Flowers is doing. The job is AJ's until he screws up. If the pitchers still have confidence in him, if he is hitting at a reasonable clip, I just don't see him getting benched no matter what Flowers is doing in AAA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 AJ is going to be difficult trade if he bombs because his deal balloons a bit next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint it Black Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 04:21 PM) Why, oh why, do people continue to draw conclusions based on Spring Training statistics? I just got back from Spring Training. Saw Flowers in two games. He homered once in the dodgers game on Sunday after coming in for Castro and doubled Monday night against the Padres when he started. I couldn't tell you his stats, but he looked really good at the plate. I know two games is not a good sample size what soever, but I came away impressed after being waaaaay down on Flowers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted March 24, 2011 Author Share Posted March 24, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 09:21 PM) Why, oh why, do people continue to draw conclusions based on Spring Training statistics? Where in my statement did I draw a conclusion? This is called planning. AJ having a bad year and Flowers having a good year is a scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 QUOTE (striker @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 08:26 PM) Where in my statement did I draw a conclusion? This is called planning. AJ having a bad year and Flowers having a good year is a scenario There is little/no case right now where I'd think aggressively moving Flowers upwards is a good idea. If Castro or AJ were to get hurt and Flowers were raking at AAA, perhaps I'd consider it, but if he's having a good year...let him have a good year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 05:18 PM) AJ is going to be difficult trade if he bombs because his deal balloons a bit next year. Plus he is still a 5 and 10 guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 My guess is that the organization's tentative plan right now is to use AJ/Castro this year with Flowers 3rd on the depth chart and coming up in any scenario where one of those two misses time, be it suspension, injury, or bereavement. Castro's contract is up after this year, so they let him walk and hand the backup catcher role over to Flowers. By that point, AJ is going to be quite worn down from the years and years of everyday catching, so they are going to take it easier on him, especially as the year wears on with AJ catching about 75-80% of the games early in the year to 50-60% of the games later on. They will let AJ walk following 2012 and hand the reigns over to Flowers. Obviously, plans can change, and I think this has about a 10% chance of actually following through. I do think this is how the organization would prefer everything to pan out though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyho7476 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Um, Tyler hit for s*** last year, so he took a step back. Tyler Minor League Stats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (striker @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 09:59 PM) If Flowers continues to hit well in AAA and Pierzynski's bat never comes back, what would you do? Even if it does come back he tops out at about .330 OBP. It would be tough to trade AJ since he took a pay cut for us but business is business. If Flowers is tearing it up then it's hard to ignore him, and you can't keep trading everyone away. I personally was hoping AJ left and we gave Flowers a chance. If he continues to hit and AJ struggles then I say we ship off AJ. What would you do? Maybe Flowers will be the backup to AJP later this year ? Not sure why anyone would think AJP isn't going to hit? If we use your reasoning we had better trade Dunn right now too as well as some others on this team. Oh, I forgot it's Spring Training. Edited March 24, 2011 by elrockinMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Mar 24, 2011 -> 10:27 AM) Maybe Flowers will be the backup to AJP later this year ? Not sure why anyone would think AJP isn't going to hit? If we use your reasoning we had better trade Dunn right now too as well as some others on this team. Oh, I forgot it's Spring Training. I don't think AJ's going to hit, and it has nothing to do with Spring Training. It has more to do with his .688 OPS last season and 34 year old age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shago Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I was under the impression that the pitching staff loved AJ and that his game calling was widely respected despite sub-par "defensive" metrics ... given the fact that we have some borderline starters in the 3, 4 (EJaxx, Gavin) spot and MB is getting on in years, think his value is completely understated in his ability to help this staff pitch to the best of their ability ... Plus, it's not like a lot of teams get much OF production from the catcher and our line-up has plenty of OF firepower; AJ also tends to at least be a decent contact hitter because he swings at everything. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (La Marr Hoyt HOF @ Mar 24, 2011 -> 10:52 AM) I was under the impression that the pitching staff loved AJ and that his game calling was widely respected despite sub-par "defensive" metrics ... given the fact that we have some borderline starters in the 3, 4 (EJaxx, Gavin) spot and MB is getting on in years, think his value is completely understated in his ability to help this staff pitch to the best of their ability ... Plus, it's not like a lot of teams get much OF production from the catcher and our line-up has plenty of OF firepower; AJ also tends to at least be a decent contact hitter because he swings at everything. Thoughts? I'm alright with AJ being on the team, and being the primary catcher, for the pitching staff and the clubhouse. For my tastes, though, he's walking a fine line. If his bat slips any further, I have no problem with a changing of the guard. Of course, I want to see Flowers rake for a while in the minors first. Everyone's right, spring training statistics mean literally nothing when it comes to in-season production. As far as his contact abilities go...sure. But his OBP was a putrid .300 last year. As usual, we need another lefty bat somehow in the case that Pierzynski is the backup at some point. Go figure. Edited March 24, 2011 by ScottyDo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I think there is a very good chance that Flowers has a big year in Charlotte, and shows that 2010 was an aberration. The ideal scenario is, he does that, and guys like Phegley/Gonzalez/Blanke continue to develop nicely... and Flowers becomes a nice trade piece. If you feel that at least one of that trio I mentioned is a legit prospect, then you can let AJ play out his contract and have an heir apparent ready to go. The problem with waiting on Flowers that long is, then he has no trade value, and he's like 28 or 29 years old when he reaches the majors. I'd bet Flowers gets traded within the next year, probably as part of a package of some kind. Possibly for some need near the deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everafan Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 04:21 PM) What the organization would do and what we would do is likely pretty different. Unless the team falls flat on its face, I don't see them trading him to replace him with Flowers. They've shown that they can be taken at their word, and I'd imagine with AJ taking a pay cut, that he was led to believe that he'd be on the team through the end of his contract. I also don't know how much other teams would pay for AJ with his reputation. Pierzynski had a deal with the Dodgers before the Sox swooped in. I don't know how much but at least we know he is marketable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 in a perfect world some of the reported mechanical changes Flowers has made are for the positive he continues to progress at the plate and on defense all year, next year he serves as a #2 catcher with a lot of games and then he can take over in 2013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Mar 24, 2011 -> 09:27 AM) Maybe Flowers will be the backup to AJP later this year ? Not sure why anyone would think AJP isn't going to hit? If we use your reasoning we had better trade Dunn right now too as well as some others on this team. Oh, I forgot it's Spring Training. Unfortunately there's plenty of reason to think AJP wont hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleCoastBias Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I thought AJ's greatest value to us was that he's widely regarded as one of the best game-callers in the league? Do we know how Flowers does in calling a game? I feel it's irresponsible to be talking about getting rid of a clubhouse leader that has great rapport with our pitchers. Replacing AJ's intangibles will be much more difficult than looking at batting averages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 QUOTE (The Baconator @ Mar 24, 2011 -> 11:27 AM) I thought AJ's greatest value to us was that he's widely regarded as one of the best game-callers in the league? Do we know how Flowers does in calling a game? I feel it's irresponsible to be talking about getting rid of a clubhouse leader that has great rapport with our pitchers. Replacing AJ's intangibles will be much more difficult than looking at batting averages. Not only game callers, but a guy who gets the most out of his pitchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Mar 24, 2011 -> 11:25 AM) Unfortunately there's plenty of reason to think AJP wont hit. he's a catcher, last year was his first year full year he had under .700 OPS. I'm not expecting him to go crazy or anything, but in 08 and 09 he posted a .728 and .755 respectively, if he can be at or between those it will be OK. I'm not expecting a miracle from the guy, but I wouldn't be shocked if he as an OK year. He's had a positive WAR with the White Sox, nothing crazy, but solid enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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