In my opinion its pretty clear you keep KW and get rid of Ozzie.

 

You can say KW should be clairvoyant and know that Dunn would fail, you can say that Rios was risky and that the Jackson trade didnt pay off, but in each of those moves, Kenny was trying to improve the team. If you are going to have a GM who gambles, you better be prepared for some busts. But I like that he takes risks, I like that he convinces JR to spend money.

 

Id rather a GM go big and bring excitement, than a guy who just plays it safe and settles.

 

Yes but he went big and came up small. The 'big' is the amount of money he has to pay busts Peavy, Rios and Dunn.

You never fail if you never try.

 

Its odd you mention Rios, Dunn and Peavy as busts for KW.

 

Rios was free, meaning that outside of spending money, his production will always be greater than 0, which is what we gave up.

 

Dunn was a FA, gave up a pick, and even as someone who hates that type of player, I thought the signing made sense. Worst case scenario you thought dunn hits 240 with 30 hrs, which is still a massive upgrade.

 

Peavy, outside of money none of the talent the Sox gave up really has burned in this deal. Furthermore, he got Peavy a former Cy Young winner.

 

If your going to b**** about KW Im not sure those are the 3 examples Id use. Any team that spends money, has their fair share of monetary busts. Its just the nature of the business.

If your going to b**** about KW Im not sure those are the 3 examples Id use. Any team that spends money, has their fair share of monetary busts. Its just the nature of the business.

 

Only one is needed. It's called the farm system. It's bad. Look at the Sox fans top prospect.

Someone has to right that ship so you won't always have a high payroll with mediocre play.

 

 

KW has a good team on the field, they're just not playing well. Ozzie hurts the team every day, he goes.

 

I agree. It is a good team on paper but they aren't performing. I appreciate how aggressive Kenny is and he adds a lot of excitement. Ozzie just continues to make me question how he is the manager of a professional team.

Too soon to give up on this season, but I've been clear that if the Sox don't make the playoffs, Kenny Williams has to resign. Two playoff appearances in 11 years in this market and in this division, isn't good enough.

 

At that point, Rick Hahn should be given the keys, and it would be his decision on whether to keep Ozzie. That is, if Reinsdorf doesn't veto it.

Edited June 23, 201114 yr by flavum

Ozzie's steadfast refusal to bench Pierre for extended periods or bat him 9th makes this an easy choice.

Unquestionably, Ozzie.

 

Kenny Williams has been the worst general manager in baseball since the end of the 2007 season.

I grow weary of the Ozzie show.

Kenny. Though if we end up not making the playoffs this year then they both have to go.

 

The Peavy and Dunn moves were the right ones to make, that being said I don't think I can ever forgive Kenny for the Jackson trade.

Kenny. Though if we end up not making the playoffs this year then they both have to go.

 

The Peavy and Dunn moves were the right ones to make, that being said I don't think I can ever forgive Kenny for the Jackson trade.

I want KW back. I can forgive the Jackson trade because he has had many successful moves such as Santos, Humber, Danks, and so on. I would replace Ozzie before KW to find out if a different manager who uses voodoo mumbo jumbo like statistics would be able to better use the players that KW brings it. They should have replaced Walker 3 years ago to find out if the offensive problems could be solved. I feel that KW would have fired both Walker and Ozzie a long time ago if it wasn't for JR. I feel KW would be an even better GM if JR would let him run the show. The only way to know for sure is to boot Ozzie and let KW have a couple more years with a manager of his choice.

I'm getting worn down by Ozzie, Hawk, Walker,Beckham,Pierre,unless the Sox catch fire the second half and win this division I'm in for the rebuild. Some new clean White Sox on the air and on the field might feel pretty good.

None of the above.

I want KW back. I can forgive the Jackson trade because he has had many successful moves such as Santos, Humber, Danks, and so on. I would replace Ozzie before KW to find out if a different manager who uses voodoo mumbo jumbo like statistics would be able to better use the players that KW brings it. They should have replaced Walker 3 years ago to find out if the offensive problems could be solved. I feel that KW would have fired both Walker and Ozzie a long time ago if it wasn't for JR. I feel KW would be an even better GM if JR would let him run the show. The only way to know for sure is to boot Ozzie and let KW have a couple more years with a manager of his choice.

 

I agree with everything in this post, except the highlighted part. If anything, he should get 2012 with a new manager. Anything beyond that would depend on the 2012 performance.

I agree with everything in this post, except the highlighted part. If anything, he should get 2012 with a new manager. Anything beyond that would depend on the 2012 performance.

Depends on what we're defining as the 2012 performance. If, hypothetically, we have a significant payroll cutback this offseason, and trade away a guy or two like D1 and Quentin before they hit free agency to restock, the effects of that wouldn't be viewed for 2-3 years at the earliest.

I want KW back. I can forgive the Jackson trade because he has had many successful moves such as Santos, Humber, Danks, and so on. I would replace Ozzie before KW to find out if a different manager who uses voodoo mumbo jumbo like statistics would be able to better use the players that KW brings it. They should have replaced Walker 3 years ago to find out if the offensive problems could be solved. I feel that KW would have fired both Walker and Ozzie a long time ago if it wasn't for JR. I feel KW would be an even better GM if JR would let him run the show. The only way to know for sure is to boot Ozzie and let KW have a couple more years with a manager of his choice.

 

With the amount of moves teams make, you can cherry pick and make any GM look good.

 

The bottom line with Kenny is his teams have won 2 divisions in 10 years, in the largest market in the weakest division.

 

He got the winning lottery ticket in 2005, and he gets a certain amount of credit for that, but the bottom line is his teams usually don't make the playoffs, and the minor league system sucks.

Has Kenny really traded anyone away that has become a star? I was reading an ESPN the magazine article today and basically half the players they were mentioning as studs were traded away from the Tigers.

Has Kenny really traded anyone away that has become a star? I was reading an ESPN the magazine article today and basically half the players they were mentioning as studs were traded away from the Tigers.

Gio's at the top of the list. He'd have a good shot at being an allstar this year if he was 100% healthy.

Has Kenny really traded anyone away that has become a star? I was reading an ESPN the magazine article today and basically half the players they were mentioning as studs were traded away from the Tigers.

Gio and I got a feeling Huddy will be in that category at some point as well. A lot of Kenny's moves are very defensible(besides Hudson for Edwin) but at some point his team have to start winning.

Outside of maybe last season, I think we've all headed into each season thinking we have a decent to good team, certainly good enough to win this division. You could say that that proves nothing but that we had good teams on paper, and that would be true, but isn't that a GM's job? If my neighbor gave me all his woodworking tools and I couldn't build a table because I'm not skilled enough to build one, is it his fault? Blaming Kenny for solid "on paper" teams not performing is making me question what exactly Ozzie's job is if it isn't to use the tools given to him to win a division.

 

 

 

Outside of maybe last season, I think we've all headed into each season thinking we have a decent to good team, certainly good enough to win this division. You could say that that proves nothing but that we had good teams on paper, and that would be true, but isn't that a GM's job? If my neighbor gave me all his woodworking tools and I couldn't build a table because I'm not skilled enough to build one, is it his fault? Blaming Kenny for solid "on paper" teams not performing is making me question what exactly Ozzie's job is if it isn't to use the tools given to him to win a division.

 

That's a pretty awesome way of putting it.

Gio and I got a feeling Huddy will be in that category at some point as well. A lot of Kenny's moves are very defensible(besides Hudson for Edwin) but at some point his team have to start winning.

 

Throw in Chris Young as well. 4.6 WAR last year. 2.5 WAR so far this year. Javy has been exiled into the abyss. And we're paying Rios $12 million to be '06 Brian Anderson. I'd say that trade was a fail.

Gio and I got a feeling Huddy will be in that category at some point as well. A lot of Kenny's moves are very defensible(besides Hudson for Edwin) but at some point his team have to start winning.

I'd be a little surprised if Huddy became a "star" (in the sense of say, regular all-star appearances). But he's a cost-controlled middle of the rotation starter right now.

The Tigers players I saw were Jair and Matt Joyce.

Managers are overrated.

 

General managers hand out stupid contracts, overpay in trades and do terrible jobs handling the draft and player development.

 

Time for Kenny Stanford to walk the plank.

I'd prefer to keep Kenny because he seems to have some sort of plan. Ozzie just goes with his heart and instincts, regardless of what numbers say. Think about it, people knew Dunn would strikeout a lot, but no one knew he would have this bad of overall numbers, especially homers. I mean, no one. Every liked the Peavy trade at the time. The Jackson trade is the only one where I can say, there was at least half the board that hated it.