Cooper and/or Ozzie status could affect MB coming back next year

[elrockinMT]

Let's keep Ozzie, Cooper and Mark Buerhle. Regardless of how anyone wants to rate Buerhle you have to have a solid 5 or 6 man starting staff to win. Mark gives the Sox a very solid pitcher that fits in somewhere in that rotation. You win with pitching #1 I think.

Edited September 15, 2011 by elrockinMT

[greg775]

Let's keep Ozzie, Cooper and Mark Buerhle. Regardless of how anyone wants to rate Buerhle you have to have a solid 5 or 6 man starting staff to win. Mark gives the Sox a very solid pitcher that fits in somewhere in that rotation. You win with pitching #1 I think.

 

Wow elrockin also wants to keep Oz.

I wonder if it's just us two. I think there's another 2 Oz supporters on this board though I forget their names rite now. I know there's at least one more besides me and elrockin.

[caulfield12]

Wow elrockin also wants to keep Oz.

I wonder if it's just us two. I think there's another 2 Oz supporters on this board though I forget their names rite now. I know there's at least one more besides me and elrockin.

 

Marty34

 

[Quin]

VictoryMC

[Jordan4life_2007]

Mark with a cool 11.74 ERA and 2.54 WHIP this month. 33 hits in 15.1 IP. Ouch. That's second half 2006 bad.

[SoxAce]

Mark with a cool 11.74 ERA and 2.54 WHIP this month. 33 hits in 15.1 IP. Ouch. That's second half 2006 bad.

 

All part of the plan to resign him with that hometown discount!

[Jordan4life_2007]

All part of the plan to resign him with that hometown discount!

 

I actually expected this earlier in the year. Not for him to be this bad. But I was expecting a high 4-ish type era. That he had been so consistent coming into this month was pretty astounding considering his peripherals, which were never impressive in the first place, had declined over the last few years.

[SoxAce]

That he had been so consistent coming into this month was pretty astounding considering his peripherals, which were never impressive in the first place, had declined over the last few years.

 

Somebody should bump that "Continuing decline of Mark Buehrle" thread back up.

 

[wallyburger]

I don't get the love for Cooper unless one ignores the entire staff's penchant for reaching the 100+ pitch count by the 5th inning syndrome, the entire SP staff seems afflicted with. I know the innings worked statistic is available, but is the pitches thrown stat available?

[Balta1701]

I don't get the love for Cooper unless one ignores the entire staff's penchant for reaching the 100+ pitch count by the 5th inning syndrome, the entire SP staff seems afflicted with. I know the innings worked statistic is available, but is the pitches thrown stat available?

White Sox starters throw an average of 3.76 pitches per plate appearance, right in the middle of the pack for all of baseball.

[klaus kinski]

If Mark stays, we have to keep him away from facing KC. They finally have assembled a pile of hitters that he just cant get out.

[Balta1701]

If Mark stays, we have to keep him away from facing KC. They finally have assembled a pile of hitters that he just cant get out.

I think mark will be fine against K.C. if we get back to the point where we care about baseball again. Prior to last night he'd faced them twice this season and gave up 4 runs total.

[bschmaranz]

Sorry, I love Mark but there is literally nothing that could realistically come up which would change my mind about wanting Ozzie (and Kenny) fired.

 

Pretty much the boat I'm in on this matter.

[caulfield12]

The White Sox have led the AL (and possibly the entire major leagues) in quality starts since 2003.

 

What hitting category have we come close to leading for such a long time span...one that would actually be considered beneficial to winning baseball games?

[chw42]

If Mark stays, we have to keep him away from facing KC. They finally have assembled a pile of hitters that he just cant get out.

Melky Cabrera kills Mark Buehrle every time. I don't know what it is, but Melky has Buehrle all figured out.

[sunofgold]

Maybe now is the time to let go of Mark Buehrle. I know that he has been such a consistent starter for us and a great guy. It isn't an easy decision.

 

However, he has looked very bad the last few starts. These starts were on four days rest. He definitely was pitching better earlier in the season and the six man rotation helped him a lot.

 

Maybe this is the point where MB starts to decline. He has thrown a lot of innings and something like that could catch up with him at some point. We also have many young players that we can feel into an open starter spot including another lefty (Sale).

 

And since MB would want to play with STL if White Sox don't sign him back. This would be the perfect opportunity since STL will be looking for starting pitching over the offseason.

 

Not signing Buehrle allows us to extend Danks. And then his spot could be filled by Sale. Thus a rotation would start to form around Sale, Peavy (going to questionable again whole next season), Danks, Floyd, Humber, and Stewart. ..and a few other guys could get a chance.

[Milkman delivers]

Maybe now is the time to let go of Mark Buehrle. I know that he has been such a consistent starter for us and a great guy. It isn't an easy decision.

 

However, he has looked very bad the last few starts. These starts were on four days rest. He definitely was pitching better earlier in the season and the six man rotation helped him a lot.

 

Maybe this is the point where MB starts to decline. He has thrown a lot of innings and something like that could catch up with him at some point. We also have many young players that we can feel into an open starter spot including another lefty (Sale).

 

And since MB would want to play with STL if White Sox don't sign him back. This would be the perfect opportunity since STL will be looking for starting pitching over the offseason.

 

Not signing Buehrle allows us to extend Danks. And then his spot could be filled by Sale. Thus a rotation would start to form around Sale, Peavy (going to questionable again whole next season), Danks, Floyd, Humber, and Stewart. ..and a few other guys could get a chance.

 

I thought I'd heard that the Cardinals' rotation was already set for 2012?

[caulfield12]

I thought I'd heard that the Cardinals' rotation was already set for 2012?

 

For the first time in years the Cardinals have some expectation of depth. 'Waino’ (Wainright) and Carpenter should project for a combined 400 innings even if the club handles Wainwright gingerly post-surgery. Jaime Garcia is locked up for 4 years. Jake Westbrook and Kyle Lohse are under contract through 2012 for about $20 million combined. Kyle McClellan, Lance Lynn and Brandon Dickson offer alternatives, though the arbitration-eligible McClellan may fit better in small-market rotation. The Cardinals love what Edwin Jackson has provided since his July 27 acquisition; however, the Cardinals are all about short-term contracts given their current posture.

 

Seems like there's not a place for him (Buehrle)...or they would have to trade Lohse, and that would make their rotation (with the Carpenter signing) way too expensive to even dream about bringing back Pujols.

 

 

 

Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/rou...l#ixzz1YCvNK9Mb

Edited September 17, 2011 by caulfield12

[Milkman delivers]

For the first time in years the Cardinals have some expectation of depth. 'Waino’ (Wainright) and Carpenter should project for a combined 400 innings even if the club handles Wainwright gingerly post-surgery. Jaime Garcia is locked up for 4 years. Jake Westbrook and Kyle Lohse are under contract through 2012 for about $20 million combined. Kyle McClellan, Lance Lynn and Brandon Dickson offer alternatives, though the arbitration-eligible McClellan may fit better in small-market rotation. The Cardinals love what Edwin Jackson has provided since his July 27 acquisition; however, the Cardinals are all about short-term contracts given their current posture.

 

Seems like there's not a place for him (Buehrle)...or they would have to trade Lohse, and that would make their rotation (with the Carpenter signing) way too expensive to even dream about bringing back Pujols.

 

 

 

Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/rou...l#ixzz1YCvNK9Mb

 

Exactly my point. I wish people would stop talking about Buehrle to St. Louis, because it isn't happening.

[fathom]

Exactly my point. I wish people would stop talking about Buehrle to St. Louis, because it isn't happening.

 

I wonder if Buehrle would go to the Cubs and play for the main rival of his two favorite teams? Cubs are going to be in the market for a lefty pitcher, as they're expected to go after 2 new starters. I can't picture Buehrle playing for them, but it makes more sense than him staying with Sox or going to Cardinals.

[Milkman delivers]

I wonder if Buehrle would go to the Cubs and play for the main rival of his two favorite teams? Cubs are going to be in the market for a lefty pitcher, as they're expected to go after 2 new starters. I can't picture Buehrle playing for them, but it makes more sense than him staying with Sox or going to Cardinals.

 

I'm fairly certain that he'll be back. I can't guess at the details of the contract, but I'm just sure that they'll figure something out. He's a Sox for life guy.

[Marty34]

Was a typical Buehrle year. Given what he means to the fan base and the outlook for the pitching staff over the next 2 years his 190+ innings would be a nice stabilizer as they rebuild the staff. 2y/$20M?

[Balta1701]

Was a typical Buehrle year. Given what he means to the fan base and the outlook for the pitching staff over the next 2 years his 190+ innings would be a nice stabilizer as they rebuild the staff. 2y/$20M?

It's all about what the total salary is.

 

If we have to drop below $110 million, 2/$20 requires trading Quentin and Danks. U up for that?

[Milkman delivers]

Was a typical Buehrle year. Given what he means to the fan base and the outlook for the pitching staff over the next 2 years his 190+ innings would be a nice stabilizer as they rebuild the staff. 2y/$20M?

 

I know this is a little detail, but why did you say 190+? He's gotten over 200 every single year, and he is presumably going to do it again this season.

[Marty34]

I know this is a little detail, but why did you say 190+? He's gotten over 200 every single year, and he is presumably going to do it again this season.

 

Allowing for a dropoff over the next 2 years. Should have said 180+ innings.