2012-2013 NFL Thread

[Soxbadger]

I dont know what type of money he wants. My hope was that he takes something reasonable to stay in Chicago, but that seems unlikely when the Bears havent even reached out.

[Kyyle23]

I dont know what type of money he wants. My hope was that he takes something reasonable to stay in Chicago, but that seems unlikely when the Bears havent even reached out.

 

Take your fandom out of the equation and look at it from afar though.

 

A terrible knee injury finishes his 2011 season, he does nothing with is up until preseason(because as ptatc said, there really isnt a surgery for that injury), and at that point he only gets it scoped, he plays 11 1/2 games and sits the final 4 1/2 games out with a severely pulled hamstring(which may or may not have been caused by his knee issues), and even when he played he is much slower than he ever was. And he is a top paid player on the team.

 

Would you reach out and risk total insult by lowballing him because there is no way you can offer him what he is used to being paid?

[SOXOBAMA]

Media Day was pretty crazy... I got the chance to meet several Niners players. Also, Ed Reed is such a great guy.

[Soxbadger]

Would you reach out and risk total insult by lowballing him because there is no way you can offer him what he is used to being paid?

 

My answer is, yes.

 

When it comes to negotiating a deal, the biggest insult is not picking up the phone and making any offer.

 

You just simply tell his agent: "Hey, we know that Brian may get a better offer in FA, but we want him back, we want to win, and we believe if he agrees to X, we can do both."

 

If he is insulted or wants unreasonably money, at least you know. But how do you know if you dont ask?

[SOXOBAMA]

Jeff Dickerson ‏@ESPNChiBears

Source: Bears sign safety Nelson http://es.pn/XQ8gyk

[Jake]

I think the more interesting Ray Lewis story is about the alleged use of performance enhancing drugs to recover from his injury this season.

 

They are reporting that he took Deer Antler Velvet, something so disproven that mainstream dietary supplement makers won't even sell it anymore -- and they have no qualms selling things that don't work.

 

Lewis would have a greater anabolic boost from looking at porn. Seriously.

[Kyyle23]

They are reporting that he took Deer Antler Velvet, something so disproven that mainstream dietary supplement makers won't even sell it anymore -- and they have no qualms selling things that don't work.

 

Lewis would have a greater anabolic boost from looking at porn. Seriously.

 

http://deadspin.com/5979930/ray-lewis-repo...se-its-football

 

One of those substances is IGF-1, a naturally produced anabolic hormone that stimulates muscle growth. IGF-1 was among the drugs allegedly given to Alex Rodriguez, Melky Cabrera, and Yasmani Grandal, and it's closely related to HGH. As such, it's on the list of banned substances for MLB, the NFL, and the World Anti-Doping Agency (a.k.a, the folks who want to ban caffeine).

 

Mitch Ross, an admitted former steroids dealer, is the owner of S.W.A.T.S. After being sued by former Ram David Vobora, who failed a steroid test, Ross began filming his phone calls with clients. He shared with SI one from October, a call from Ray Lewis, seeking treatment for his torn triceps that would keep him out until the playoffs. Ross prescribed Lewis, among other things, the company's "Ultimate Spray"—a deer-antler extract that contains IGF-1.

 

Doesnt seem to be such a small deal like you are saying

[RockRaines]

http://deadspin.com/5979930/ray-lewis-repo...se-its-football

 

 

 

Doesnt seem to be such a small deal like you are saying

IGF-1 is a primary mediator of the effects of growth hormone (GH). Growth hormone is made in the anterior pituitary gland, is released into the blood stream, and then stimulates the liver to produce IGF-1. IGF-1 then stimulates systemic body growth, and has growth-promoting effects on almost every cell in the body, especially skeletal muscle, cartilage, bone, liver, kidney, nerves, skin, hematopoietic cell, and lungs. In addition to the insulin-like effects, IGF-1 can also regulate cell growth and development, especially in nerve cells, as well as cellular DNA synthesis.

[Jake]

It does nothing when taken orally or transdermally. I'm not even sure that it is in Deer Antler Velvet at all, though I don't recall that specifically.

 

But yes, it sounds like a big deal. That's how they make you want to buy it, too.

[Kyyle23]

It does nothing when taken orally or transdermally. I'm not even sure that it is in Deer Antler Velvet at all, though I don't recall that specifically.

 

But yes, it sounds like a big deal. That's how they make you want to buy it, too.

 

So you are saying that this guy is selling Lewis a under-the-tongue spray that doesnt work?

[Soxbadger]

Arent these 2 different arguments.

 

1) This substance is banned by the NFL, therefore its illegal regardless of the results.

 

2) This substance while banned does nothing and therefore we shouldnt care.

 

It always seems that argument 2 is irrelevant. Otherwise sports would have to actually prove that the alleged substance helped the competitor.

[Jake]

So you are saying that this guy is selling Lewis a under-the-tongue spray that doesnt work?

 

Yes. Sweet, sweet profit. The dietary supplement industry is all about what some guy or personal trainer tells you works, and typically these people heard about things the same way. Or they just read the product packaging and called that "research."

 

Here's a recent research review on Deer Antler Velvet on a variety of human uses:

1. N Z Med J. 2012 Dec 14;125(1367):80-6.

 

Health benefits of deer and elk velvet antler supplements: a systematic review of

randomised controlled studies.

 

Gilbey A, Perezgonzalez JD.

 

College of Business, Massey University, Private Bag 11 222, Palmerston North, New

Zealand. a.p.gilbey@massey.ac.nz.

 

AIMS: The aim of this systematic review was to evaluate the evidence from RCTs of

velvet antler supplements for any condition, using the QUOROM statement as a

guiding framework.

METHODS: Four electronic databases (PubMed, Medline, Web of Science and Academic

search premier, via the bibliographical platform, Endnote) and two review

articles were searched for all randomised clinical trials of velvet antler

supplements. Retrieved trials were evaluated according to standardised criteria.

RESULTS: Seven RCTs were identified as satisfying all inclusion criteria and

examined the effectiveness of velvet antler for rheumatoid arthritis (2),

osteoarthritis (1), sexual function (1), and sporting performance enhancement

(3). Their methodological quality ranged from 3-5, as measured on the Jadad

scale. Two RCTs reported some positive effects of velvet antler supplements, but

neither were convincing while the remaining five RCTs found no effect of velvet

antler supplements.

CONCLUSIONS: Claims made for velvet antler supplements do not appear to be based

upon rigorous research from human trials, although for osteoarthritis the

findings may have some promise.

 

PMID: 23321886 [PubMed - in process]

 

Arent these 2 different arguments.

 

1) This substance is banned by the NFL, therefore its illegal regardless of the results.

 

2) This substance while banned does nothing and therefore we shouldnt care.

 

It always seems that argument 2 is irrelevant. Otherwise sports would have to actually prove that the alleged substance helped the competitor.

 

Sure, 1 makes it technically illegal though it will be very difficult to prove that he took it. 2 is important because the national media is crucifying this guy for having cheated when he is really just a hoodwinked consumer. This same news media is likely the very reason he ever took it in the first place, because they go crazy when they hear there is some new supplement going around that makes outrageous claims. While the NFL can do what it wants with its rules, we as fans can say "hey, he took something that doesn't work and won't be playing better because of it since it does not work."

 

The reason it can't be tested for is because it isn't changing anything within you enough to actually be indicative of a change. That says enough for me.

[Kyyle23]

Yes. Sweet, sweet profit. The dietary supplement industry is all about what some guy or personal trainer tells you works, and typically these people heard about things the same way. Or they just read the product packaging and called that "research."

 

Here's a recent research review on Deer Antler Velvet on a variety of human uses:

 

 

 

 

Sure, 1 makes it technically illegal though it will be very difficult to prove that he took it. 2 is important because the national media is crucifying this guy for having cheated when he is really just a hoodwinked consumer. This same news media is likely the very reason he ever took it in the first place, because they go crazy when they hear there is some new supplement going around that makes outrageous claims. While the NFL can do what it wants with its rules, we as fans can say "hey, he took something that doesn't work and won't be playing better because of it since it does not work."

 

The reason it can't be tested for is because it isn't changing anything within you enough to actually be indicative of a change. That says enough for me.

 

You keep saying antler velvet. I keep reading antler extract(not velvet, the antler itself). And if the product actually does contain that banned substance, then it seems you are wrong

[RockRaines]

Something like this is what he used

 

http://reviews.bodybuilding.com/NOW/IGF1_plus_LipoSpray/

 

 

I'll f***ing buy it and report back.

[witesoxfan]

Arent these 2 different arguments.

 

1) This substance is banned by the NFL, therefore its illegal regardless of the results.

 

2) This substance while banned does nothing and therefore we shouldnt care.

 

It always seems that argument 2 is irrelevant. Otherwise sports would have to actually prove that the alleged substance helped the competitor.

 

This is the point. Neither marijuana nor cocaine are going to help you play football better over the course of your career (for a game, I don't know, maybe?), yet they are illegal substances. If you are found to have them in your system, you should be suspended because the NFL cares about the health of its players.

 

They might believe that drinking ram's piss makes you a better player (it sure as hell makes you a better drinker), and if they find it in your system, you should be suspended. It doesn't mean it does, and if there is a reputable study done proving otherwise, they can reconsider. In the meantime, they believe that this IGF-1 is a performance-enhancing drug, and if it is illegal and Ray Lewis tests positive for it (he didn't because the NFL doesn't test for it), then he should be suspended immediately.

 

Of course, he'd just appeal and then retire, so there's really no point to it whatsoever.

[witesoxfan]

Something like this is what he used

 

http://reviews.bodybuilding.com/NOW/IGF1_plus_LipoSpray/

 

 

I'll f***ing buy it and report back.

 

3rd one down

 

Dec 6, 2012 3:28 pm: I was honestly pretty skeptical about this spray but I'm about 2-3 weeks into it and noticing huge strength gains and a lot more definition. I don't know why, not sure anyone knows why. But this stuff definitely works. Added 15 pounds to my bench already and have set multiple PRs the last couple weeks.

[ptatc]

You keep saying antler velvet. I keep reading antler extract(not velvet, the antler itself). And if the product actually does contain that banned substance, then it seems you are wrong

It does contain a substance banned at a certain level. It naturally occurs in the body and does have PED effects if you take great quantities of it. This is why in the literature it doesn't show up as really having much effect. The quantities are too low.

 

It's like the female swimmer in the 2000 olympics who claimed that a positive test was from a substance in her birth control pills. She was correct that the substance was there but to get the dosage level she would need to take 400 pills a day.

[Steve9347]

I heard Adrian Peterson rubbed horse jizz on his knee.

[Jake]

3rd one down

 

Those reviews are always great. The company I work for sells through bb.com. People think our protein product gives them energy. We also have 0 reviews because people didn't lose weight/gain muscle/etc.

[Balta1701]

It does contain a substance banned at a certain level. It naturally occurs in the body and does have PED effects if you take great quantities of it. This is why in the literature it doesn't show up as really having much effect. The quantities are too low.

 

It's like the female swimmer in the 2000 olympics who claimed that a positive test was from a substance in her birth control pills. She was correct that the substance was there but to get the dosage level she would need to take 400 pills a day.

Has anyone made any kind of statement about how much of this stuff Lewis used?

 

If "rigorously controlled scientific studies" show no effects...what happens when you remove the control and down 50 times as much as the tested dose?

[ptatc]

Has anyone made any kind of statement about how much of this stuff Lewis used?

 

If "rigorously controlled scientific studies" show no effects...what happens when you remove the control and down 50 times as much as the tested dose?

I haven't seen the answers to either of those.

 

The answer to the second question is similar to "what exactly happens to the body at different high doses of steriods." There really is no ethical way to study it.

[knightni]

I heard Adrian Peterson rubbed horse jizz on his knee.

[Jake]

The problem is oral bioavailability. He wouldn't take a ton of the oral if he was aware of these dosing issues...he would just take HGH via injection

[ptatc]

The problem is oral bioavailability. He wouldn't take a ton of the oral if he was aware of these dosing issues...he would just take HGH via injection

Exactly. That's why either one of two things probably happened. He is either telling the truth and getting minimal physiologic benefit (but a lot of placebo effect) or he is lying and using this to cover his immediate tracks.

[Steve9347]

http://flapship.com/ray-lewis-unpolarized/