jasonxctf Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 what purpose is he serving? Why not DFA him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 QUOTE (jasonxctf @ May 15, 2012 -> 09:54 PM) what purpose is he serving? Why not DFA him? Get lefties out, he got lit up by a bunch of righties. misused. Next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 QUOTE (justBLAZE @ May 15, 2012 -> 10:05 PM) Get lefties out, he got lit up by a bunch of righties. misused. Next. Then maybe they should DFA Ventura. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 He stinks but there are a lot of similar pitchers in baseball. Look at Dotel. He stinks. Every team has some guys who suck in the pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 QUOTE (justBLAZE @ May 15, 2012 -> 10:05 PM) Get lefties out, he got lit up by a bunch of righties. misused. Next. We've got a winner. Lefty slash line this year: .154/.214/.368 Righties ain't as pretty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 He's actually done a pretty good job the past couple seasons when used correctly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 I fully endorse Will Ohman's use against any lefty in the league, and I will forever hold Will Ohman completely blameless when a righty hits a HR off him, because he should only be facing a righty in garbage time. Yesterday he hit a lefty with a pitch. These things happen. That one was a failure. But you don't respond to that by asking if he can get the next righty out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 16, 2012 -> 07:58 AM) I fully endorse Will Ohman's use against any lefty in the league, and I will forever hold Will Ohman completely blameless when a righty hits a HR off him, because he should only be facing a righty in garbage time. Yesterday he hit a lefty with a pitch. These things happen. That one was a failure. But you don't respond to that by asking if he can get the next righty out. The big problem was that the team had already gotten 6 innings out of the pen the day prior, and was going to need at least 3 and 2/3 yesterday. It is much more difficult to play the match ups game when you had a bullpen game the day prior, and needed a high amount of innings out of them on a getaway day to California for a two game road trip. Every once in a while, guys need to step out of their comfort zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 16, 2012 -> 09:34 AM) The big problem was that the team had already gotten 6 innings out of the pen the day prior, and was going to need at least 3 and 2/3 yesterday. It is much more difficult to play the match ups game when you had a bullpen game the day prior, and needed a high amount of innings out of them on a getaway day to California for a two game road trip. Every once in a while, guys need to step out of their comfort zone. And if we try to force guys out of doing something they're clearly good at and paid to do, into doing something they're clearly bad at and always have been, it's going to cost the team some games and that's that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 16, 2012 -> 08:39 AM) And if we try to force guys out of doing something they're clearly good at and paid to do, into doing something they're clearly bad at and always have been, it's going to cost the team some games and that's that. Game situations force that, not the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 16, 2012 -> 09:40 AM) Game situations force that, not the other way around. If that's the case, then we shouldn't get threads saying that we should DFA the guy who failed to do a job he's not supposed to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 16, 2012 -> 08:50 AM) If that's the case, then we shouldn't get threads saying that we should DFA the guy who failed to do a job he's not supposed to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Ventura has a bit of a pattern in misusing Ohman now...I don't know that you can correlate the episode yesterday to a tired bullpen as much as it is just par for the course so far for Robin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 16, 2012 -> 08:58 AM) Ventura has a bit of a pattern in misusing Ohman now...I don't know that you can correlate the episode yesterday to a tired bullpen as much as it is just par for the course so far for Robin. Ventura and Cooper are blaming a tired bullpen for the incident yesterday http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/white-sox/..._medium=twitter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Ohman has faced more RH hitters than LH hitters during his career. The one problem with LOOGYS is when they are in with the game on the line, they are either going to face a real good LH hitter or the opposing manager will pinch hit so he's going to have to get out a RH hitter. If there was a line up stacked with LH hitters and Ohman came in when the game was pretty much out of reach, he'd look like an All Star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 16, 2012 -> 09:14 AM) Ventura and Cooper are blaming a tired bullpen for the incident yesterday http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/white-sox/..._medium=twitter How tired was Jesse Crain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 16, 2012 -> 10:19 AM) Ohman has faced more RH hitters than LH hitters during his career. The one problem with LOOGYS is when they are in with the game on the line, they are either going to face a real good LH hitter or the opposing manager will pinch hit so he's going to have to get out a RH hitter. If there was a line up stacked with LH hitters and Ohman came in when the game was pretty much out of reach, he'd look like an All Star. Usually though, Miguel Cabrera isn't sitting on the bench. If he is, then that's a case where you are very cautious about where you use Ohman (i.e. only to start an inning, rather than with runners on base). Or, you put him in to a place where he has room to walk the righty to face a lefty. Yesterday, he failed to get the lefty out. This does happen. He then gave up a big hit to Austin Jackson. If he'd gotten the lefty out, we'd have been fine, but those things do happen, they don't have a 0.000 OBP against him. The problem was that we didn't attempt someone like Crain against Austin Jackson, even if he'd just gotten off a plane. A tired Jones or Stewart, for 1 batter, against Jackson, would have been more relaible than Ohman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 After watching some of the highlights of the 6th inning, it sure looked like Peavy's stuff just hit a wall. 89 mph fastball to Cabrera should have been a warning sign that he was finished. After Raburn's homer, it should have been Nate Jones time. Ohman only should have been used in the game to face Prince or Avila, two guys that you know Leyland wouldn't ph for. Instead, bringing him in to face Kelly just made it way too easy for Leyland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 16, 2012 -> 02:23 PM) Usually though, Miguel Cabrera isn't sitting on the bench. If he is, then that's a case where you are very cautious about where you use Ohman (i.e. only to start an inning, rather than with runners on base). Or, you put him in to a place where he has room to walk the righty to face a lefty. Yesterday, he failed to get the lefty out. This does happen. He then gave up a big hit to Austin Jackson. If he'd gotten the lefty out, we'd have been fine, but those things do happen, they don't have a 0.000 OBP against him. The problem was that we didn't attempt someone like Crain against Austin Jackson, even if he'd just gotten off a plane. A tired Jones or Stewart, for 1 batter, against Jackson, would have been more relaible than Ohman. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Leyland have Delmon bat for Kelly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 16, 2012 -> 09:23 AM) Usually though, Miguel Cabrera isn't sitting on the bench. If he is, then that's a case where you are very cautious about where you use Ohman (i.e. only to start an inning, rather than with runners on base). Or, you put him in to a place where he has room to walk the righty to face a lefty. Yesterday, he failed to get the lefty out. This does happen. He then gave up a big hit to Austin Jackson. If he'd gotten the lefty out, we'd have been fine, but those things do happen, they don't have a 0.000 OBP against him. The problem was that we didn't attempt someone like Crain against Austin Jackson, even if he'd just gotten off a plane. A tired Jones or Stewart, for 1 batter, against Jackson, would have been more relaible than Ohman. Stewart had just pitched 3 innings the day prior. He wasn't an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 QUOTE (fathom @ May 16, 2012 -> 10:26 AM) Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Leyland have Delmon bat for Kelly? Missed that...but if that happened, fine, then he failed to get out the first righty, which makes it even more curious that he was the first option out of the pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 16, 2012 -> 10:27 AM) Stewart had just pitched 3 innings the day prior. He wasn't an option. Will Ohman facing a RH hitter ought to be in the same category as "using a pitcher who threw 3 innings the day before". You do that if you're desperate and ready to lose a game because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Another Will Ohman fact. 59% of the batters he's faced this season have been LH. Last year it was 49 %. His best year, 2008 with the genius Bobby Cox, 46%. So Ventura has him face a smaller percentage of RH hitters than any manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 16, 2012 -> 09:28 AM) Will Ohman facing a RH hitter ought to be in the same category as "using a pitcher who threw 3 innings the day before". You do that if you're desperate and ready to lose a game because of it. Stewart was not going to be used yesterday, and probably is out again for today. No one brings back a guy after pitching three innings the day prior, unless we are talking about a long extra inning game where you literally have no choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 16, 2012 -> 03:30 PM) Another Will Ohman fact. 59% of the batters he's faced this season have been LH. Last year it was 49 %. His best year, 2008 with the genius Bobby Cox, 46%. So Ventura has him face a smaller percentage of RH hitters than any manager. I tried to find it on baseball-reference, but I was unsuccessful. Anyone know what Ohman's velocity was in 2008 as opposed to now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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