Chicago White Sox vs. Cleveland Indians

[southsider2k5]

Greg ...

 

While I disagree with you on many BASEBALL issues (in particular you wanting to give Ozzie a life-time pass for 2005; me and so many others giving him part of the credit, which leads to some additional benefit of the doubt and a little more rope ... but, he lost that benefit of the doubt and ran out of rope with his increasingly aberrant behavior between 2007-2011), ultimately, I could care less about disagreements. We're all Sox fans; there is room for differences of opinion; and healthy debate is great.

 

However, I personally cringe when you and anyone else brings up this attendance issue! It's not baseball; it's not fandom; it's an economics and ownership issue. Do you own the team? I don't.

 

So many people, particularly Cubs fans, grasp on to the Sox attendance woes as if it measures anything particularly significant. The historical circumstances that led to Comiskey Park built had long since changed by 1990. Had all other things been equal, there was no way that Sox ownership would have rebuilt a park at that same location. However, all other things weren't equal. Sox ownership (which included dozens of the top real estate and business minds in the Chicago community) fought hard for the sweetheart deal of the century. They won the lottery with all sorts of public concessions, allowing them to easily make solid profits year after year while their equity investment in the team skyrocketed.

 

But ownership can't have it both ways. I've got plenty of South Sider family and friends, but the current location is far from ideal for many fans, for business ticket holders, and for tourists. The Cubs have such a huge advantage over the Sox in each of these three things. It's why comparing their attendance to the Sox attendance is so ridiculous. I wish I could somehow get a breakdown, but I'd bet the number of actual dedicated Sox fans buying tickets for games at the Cell is close to if not more than the number of actual dedicated Cubs fans buying tickets for games at the Urinal (err ... the Shrine). The difference is business ticket holders and tourists.

 

And that's not all -- the Sox could easily draw more, lots more, if they wanted. Others with greater knowledge have discussed it far more eloquently than I could, but the Sox ticket prices, dynamic pricing, parking prices, and so forth, follow their self-professed goals of maximizing revenue (without regard to the pure number of fannies in the seat) instead of maximizing attendance. Stripping all of that down to the basics -- ownership really doesn't care for regular 30,000+ turn-outs as long as they're maximizing profits at some lower attendance figure. If they don't care, why should I? Why should you?

 

Sure, the players might like more people in the stands, but if they have a problem, take it up with ownership, not with the fans. Ownership created this mess.

 

Thank you so much. And might I just add that measuring fandom by attendance is about the stupidest thing ever. Seriously. Is Justin Bieber the greatest artist right now because his concerts sell out? Is the USA Today the second best newspaper in the country because its circulation is #2 nationally? The attendance stuff has no sort of relevance to fandom at all. All anyone should care about attendance as is a form of total revenue. Beyond that, it is basically meaningless.

 

[soxsoxsoxsox]

Haters gonna hate.

 

 

Let's go Sox! Please don't lose!

 

 

[Eminor3rd]

Yeah, I'm tired of this media guilt trip garbage. I'm the f***ing customer, and the Sox are not some charity. If I choose to consume the product, I'll consume it how I choose. I watch 120-130 Sox games on TV every year, and as a direct result of me and those like me, the Sox get bajillions of dollars from their TV deal. Everyone in that organization is making a ton of money directly from us, and then they have the audacity to threaten us with a crappy product if we don't buy it twice?

[justBLAZE]

DeAza CF

Youkilis 3B

Dunn DH

Konerko 1B

Rios RF

Pierzynski C

Viciedo LF

Ramirez SS

Beckham 2B

 

Sale P

 

Choo RF

Kipnis 2B

Cabrera SS

Santana DH

Canzler 1B

Rottino LF

Chisenhall 3B

Marson C

Carrera CF

 

McAllister P

[JoshPR]

Sigh... The three stooges in the lineup

[JoshPR]

Correct me if I'm wrong here... If the sox go 5-5 in the last ten it forces the tigers to go 7-3 to win the division? So if the sox play .500 ball the rest of the way the win the central?

[Greg Hibbard]

Correct me if I'm wrong here... If the sox go 5-5 in the last ten it forces the tigers to go 7-3 to win the division? So if the sox play .500 ball the rest of the way the win the central?

 

If the Tigers go 6-4 in that scenario it forces a game 163.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Correct me if I'm wrong here... If the sox go 5-5 in the last ten it forces the tigers to go 7-3 to win the division? So if the sox play .500 ball the rest of the way the win the central?

 

I believe if that were the case detroit would win....6-4 by detroit, and 5-5 by the sox would mean a 163rd game

[JoshPR]

7-3 is not so easy at this stage...

[2nd_city_saint787]

7-3 is not so easy at this stage...

 

 

Nope which is why theres no reason to doom and gloom yet.

[Brian]

7-3 is not so easy at this stage...

 

Sweep, split, 2 out of 3. I'll take.

[CyAcosta41]

Good points, sir. I took a potshot at our fans which I regret.

 

Didn't mean to direct all that pent-up anger about the attendance boogeyman at you personally, man. Just so tired of it. As if it means anything relevant to any of us. The talking heads on the sports shows (and with rare exceptions, I have no respect for any of those people ... whose business is clearly sensationalism and muckracking, not sports as I know it), the pro-Cubs newspaper guys, and then the national guys who simply pick-up on the former two groups, can't get enough of the attendance thing. Who cares? Enough. It measures nothing of importance except for demographics, geographics, tourism, but hardly the subjective strength of a team's fandom.

 

Prior to the extreme double-whammy this year of yet another horrible year with the economy being combined with the Sox ballpark experience being overall one of the most expensive in the nation (which Sox ownership CHOOSE to do as part of their business plan), the dedicated Sox faithful always came out to support their team once the team had earned it. Whether right or wrong, that's what Sox fans have always done -- if you build a winner, we will come. That contrasts of course with the Cubs gate which comes out (for the most part), no matter what -- but tourists and business don't need a winner (a well-located shrine and beer garden does the trick) and the dedicated Cubs fan flock have proven to be rather sheep-like and somewhat taken by their loveable loser mystique.

 

Ironically (because I'm being so wordy about this), I turn to a different station or stop reading whenever the attendance issue is raised. Who. Cares!

[elrockinMT]

I have faith in this team and let's remember something here. We have seen them go on a losing streak before of a few games and then suddenly they turn it around. We are back in Chicago and this could be the medicine they need

Edited September 24, 2012 by elrockinMT

[2nd_city_saint787]

Sweep, split, 2 out of 3. I'll take.

 

Very possible, which would force Det to go 8-2 to force game 163...which with their struggles on the road I dont see happening

[CyAcosta41]

Yeah, I'm tired of this media guilt trip garbage. I'm the f***ing customer, and the Sox are not some charity. If I choose to consume the product, I'll consume it how I choose. I watch 120-130 Sox games on TV every year, and as a direct result of me and those like me, the Sox get bajillions of dollars from their TV deal. Everyone in that organization is making a ton of money directly from us, and then they have the audacity to threaten us with a crappy product if we don't buy it twice?

 

Bingo, man!

 

Once upon a time I loved going to 25-30 games a year in person. But it's gotten so expensive (factoring in parking and food ... and like it or not, for many of us that is part of the overall equation). And call me a throwback, but I hate the limited-attention span BS that baseball is taking from the NBA fan experience. To each their own, but I like concentrating on the intricacies of the game during each inning (without being told when to cheer, or being subjected to loud guitar rock -- and I LOVE loud guitar rock (in its place)) and I don't want/need the endless and mindless between inning gimmicks. I understand some people like all that stuff. Fine, they can pay what it takes to get game + THAT.

 

I'm just fine with the best seat in the house (MINE) and watching every inning of every game with time-shifting, pausing, better beer, no bathroom lines, and the ability to fast-forward through Juan Uribe's at-bats (no current equivalent, although Paul (One Hand) Konerko is coming real close).

[clyons]

Important, late September home game against the Indians, with the team sputtering and clinging to the slimmest of first place leads.

 

Something about this scenario seems vaguely familiar . . . .

 

Here's hoping this is the night we GET OFF THE LEDGE and never look back.

[chw42]

Important, late September home game against the Indians, with the team sputtering and clinging to the slimmest of first place leads.

 

Something about this scenario seems vaguely familiar . . . .

 

Here's hoping this is the night we GET OFF THE LEDGE and never look back.

 

Youk = new Joe Crede?!?!?!

[chw42]

Important, late September home game against the Indians, with the team sputtering and clinging to the slimmest of first place leads.

 

Something about this scenario seems vaguely familiar . . . .

 

Here's hoping this is the night we GET OFF THE LEDGE and never look back.

 

Last 3 games of the year are also in Cleveland.

[JohnCangelosi]

I want to see us talking some junk tonight. If we can't get up for these last 10 games something is wrong.

 

[soxfan3530]

win a freakin' game.

 

that is all.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

 

[Baines3]

Let's break this losing streak and win a game. Let's win this division.

[TitoMB345]

Oh how easy it is to derail a Gamethread.. come on boys, let's be nice.

 

GO SOX!

 

Please win.

 

They are 0-2 when I attend games this year (@Dodgers, @Angels), and for that, I apologize.

[rowand's rowdies]

Sox win, Tigers lose. We go up 2 games tonight. Still worried about our chances but tonight should be fine.

 

White Sox 5

Indians 2

[fathom]

Sox win, Tigers lose. We go up 2 games tonight. Still worried about our chances but tonight should be fine.

 

White Sox 5

Indians 2

 

Tonight's the worst match-up for KC during their 4 game series, as the Tigers have crushed Hochevar in his career and they got Verlander on the mound.