Your 2013 Plan for the White Sox

[justBLAZE]

The way I see it, if I'm Rick Hahn (and we did graduate from the same high school only a year apart)

 

Talk about being able to get the rumors first hand!

[NorthSideSox72]

Talk about being able to get the rumors first hand!

I only barely knew the guy. It was a big high school. And we haven't talked since then.

 

[justBLAZE]

I only barely knew the guy. It was a big high school. And we haven't talked since then.

 

Just messing with ya, but hey that's cool tho!

[greg775]

It's all phony to me. That 2-homer game last week was the only time I can think of him playing like a superstar for us. It's not just the Ks. It's the fact that he's not a feared hitter. Sure he can bat fifth or lower next year, but c'mon, we need a legit #3 hitter. Most of our problems go away if we add that one guy.

 

I'm not a Dunn fan, but to be fair, he hit some very important homers this year. Without him, the Sox wouldn't have been in the "race" at all. I'd prefer him on another team, but he hit some major home runs and a few of them were with men on base. Despite that horrendous batting average, I'd give him a very very solid B for his performance this season. I am thinking except for that two homer game he reeked in September, but I don't have the numbers in front of me.

 

p.s. I really hope Thornton and Crain have pitched their last games for the Sox. Bring in a new crew of relievers please.

Edited October 3, 2012 by greg775

[2nd_city_saint787]

I'm not a Dunn fan, but to be fair, he hit some very important homers this year. Without him, the Sox wouldn't have been in the "race" at all. I'd prefer him on another team, but he hit some major home runs and a few of them were with men on base. Despite that horrendous batting average, I'd give him a very very solid B for his performance this season. I am thinking except for that two homer game he reeked in September, but I don't have the numbers in front of me.

 

p.s. I really hope Thornton and Crain have pitched their last games for the Sox. Bring in a new crew of relievers please.

 

I agree with the first part of your post...But to continue the injury thing that I've been beating all to hell these past few days...1. He's got an oblique injury, you cant get the same body torque if thats bothering you. and 2. PKs collapse due to the injury gave Dunn virtually no protection. When you have a healthy PK hitting behind you you're gonna get a lot more pitches to hit.

 

I can understand the Thornton hate, though I think its overblown but why the Crain hate??? A 2.44 ERA with a 1.08 WHIP isn't good enough for you?

[greg775]

I agree with the first part of your post...But to continue the injury thing that I've been beating all to hell these past few days...1. He's got an oblique injury, you cant get the same body torque if thats bothering you. and 2. PKs collapse due to the injury gave Dunn virtually no protection. When you have a healthy PK hitting behind you you're gonna get a lot more pitches to hit.

 

I can understand the Thornton hate, though I think its overblown but why the Crain hate??? A 2.44 ERA with a 1.08 WHIP isn't good enough for you?

 

Would you agree Dunn deserves a B? Or would you go with an A? I just don't like Crain much. I really dislike Myers, though. I guess I could stomach Crain another year, but not Myers. And I still say Nate has to revamp his pitching rotation. What's with the Keith Foulke motion???

[2nd_city_saint787]

Would you agree Dunn deserves a B? Or would you go with an A? I just don't like Crain much. I really dislike Myers, though. I guess I could stomach Crain another year, but not Myers. And I still say Nate has to revamp his pitching rotation. What's with the Keith Foulke motion???

 

As I said, yes up until the part I bolded I agree with your post, a B sounds right.

 

Youre all over the place with the rest of this post lol.

 

Crain has been one of the more consistent RP in the game. He only gave up more than 1 run twice last season...throw those 2 games out and he has a 1.55 ERA in 46.2 IP. How can you not like that??

 

As for Jones, why does it even matter if he has a Keith Foulke motion if he's having success?? That doesn't make any sense to me.

 

Myers is kind meh to me, nothing special but he's still a pretty decent RP.

[Jerksticks]

I agree with the first part of your post...But to continue the injury thing that I've been beating all to hell these past few days...1. He's got an oblique injury, you cant get the same body torque if thats bothering you. and 2. PKs collapse due to the injury gave Dunn virtually no protection. When you have a healthy PK hitting behind you you're gonna get a lot more pitches to hit.

 

I can understand the Thornton hate, though I think its overblown but why the Crain hate??? A 2.44 ERA with a 1.08 WHIP isn't good enough for you?

I agree with your Crain statements. Guy has some big-time stones IMO as he pitched out of many important innings.

 

Thornton sucks. Nobody has ever needed their 2 mph back more than this man!

 

I don't buy the protection theory really. Didn't Dunn look overmatched in pretty much every AB against a quality pitcher? I feel like he lucked into most of his hits. Of course this is just my eye test which means s*** really. But it's what I saw dadgummit.

Edited October 3, 2012 by Jerksticks

[2nd_city_saint787]

I agree with your Crain statements. Guy has some big-time stones IMO as he pitched out of many important innings.

 

Thornton sucks.

 

I don't buy the protection theory really. Didn't Dunn look overmatched in pretty much every AB against a quality pitcher? I feel like he lucked into most of his hits. Of course this is just my eye test which means s*** really. But it's what I saw dadgummit.

 

They were throwing him a lot less fastballs and gave him less pitches to hit. When you have someone with no pop behind him they can afford to do that, it also shows up in his walk totals in the 2nd half. You couple that with his oblique problems and its no wonder he hasn't been as good as the all star 1st half he had.

[kitekrazy]

Talk about being able to get the rumors first hand!

 

He should start a "My guy on 35th says..." thread.

[Jerksticks]

They were throwing him a lot less fastballs and gave him less pitches to hit. When you have someone with no pop behind him they can afford to do that, it also shows up in his walk totals in the 2nd half. You couple that with his oblique problems and its no wonder he hasn't been as good as the all star 1st half he had.

 

I respect your opinion here but I don't buy it as ultimate fact. With a more typical hitter I would agree with you, but with Dunn, his lack of protection merely amplified his suck-factor rather than causing it. Plenty of teams with just 1 guy with no protection getting it done.

 

.200 is dogs*** man, it's dogs***. It means he knocks in de aza 1 out of 5 times, bottom line.

 

Do you really want him in the 3 hole next year?

[kitekrazy]

lol people forget Dunn was an all star this year....voted by his peers...ya his peers are idiots and know nothing about baseball right

 

Good thing they don't play that game after the season. Then if he was voted in...yes his peers would be idiots and know nothing about baseball. All Star appearances are plenty in the Sox kingdom...which are nothing more than aesthetics compared to post seasons.

 

[DukeNukeEm]

STARTING SALARY (NOT INCLUDING ARB OR PREARB): $72.25 mil

 

TEAM OPTIONS / BUYOUTS

Jake Peavy- See: "TEAM FREE AGENTS"

Kevin Youkilis- Buyout. +$1 mil

Gavin Floyd- Exercise TO +$9.5 mil

Brett Myers- Buyout. +$3 mil

TOTAL: +$13.5 mil

STARTING SALARY: $72.25 mil

CURRENT SALARY/OBLIGATIONS: $85.75 mil

 

ARBITRATION

Gordon Beckham- $2.5 mil

Alejandro DeAza- RESIGN 3y/$10 mil ($2.5 mil 2013 // $3.5 mil 2014 // $4.0 mil 2015 TO)

Phil Humber- Walk

TOTAL: $5 mil

EXISTING SALARY/OBLIGATIONS: $85.75 mil

CURRENT SALARY/OBLIGATIONS: $89.75 mil

 

TEAM FREE AGENTS

Orlando Hudosn- Walk

AJ Pierzynski- Resign 2y/$15 mil ($7.5 mil 2013 // $7.5 mil 2014)

Francisco Liriano- Walk

Jose Lopez- Walk

Brian Bruney- Walk

Dewayne Wise- Resign 1y/$1.25 mil

Dan Johnson- Walk

Ray Olmedo- Walk

Deunte Heath- Walk

Jake Peavy- Resign 3y/$30.5 mil ($9.75 mil 2013 // $10 mil 2014 // $10.75 mil 2015)

TOTAL: +$18.25 mil

EXISTING SALARY/OBLIGATIONS: $89.25 mil

CURRENT SALARY/OBLIGATIONS: $108.5 mil

 

TRADES

Matt Thornton -$5.5 mil to ATL for Paul Maholm, cash +$3 mil

Gavin Floyd -$9.5 mil to LAA for Hisanori Takahashi, Nick Marounde +$4.5 mil

John Danks Trayce Thompson, Jesse Crain -$19.75 mil to NYM for David Wright +$16 mil

TOTAL: -$10.25 mil

EXISTING SALARY/OBLIGATIONS: $108.5 mil

CURRENT SALARY/OBLIGATIONS: $ 96.75 mil

 

FREE AGENTS

Sign Kyuji Fujikawa 2y/$7.5 mil ($3.5 mil 2013 // $4 mil 2014)

Sign Ryan Madson 1y/$3 mil

TOTAL: +$7.5 mil

EXISTING SALARY/OBLIGATIONS: $96.75 mil

CURRENT SALARY/OBLIGATIONS: $104.25 mil

 

PREARB SALARIES

TOTAL: +$6 mil

EXISTING SALARY/OBLIGATIONS: $104.25 mil

CURRENT SALARY/OBLIGATIONS: $110.25 mil

 

TOTAL SALARY/OBLIGATIONS: $110.25 mil

LINEUP:

Alejandro DeAza 8

David Wright 6

Adam Dunn 0

Paul Konerko 3

Alex Rios 9

AJ Pierzynski 2

Dayan Viciedo 7

Alexei Ramirez 5

Gordon Beckham 4

 

BENCH:

DeWayne Wise OF

Jordan Danks OF

Tyler Flowers C

Carlos Sanchez INF

 

ROTATION:

Chris Sale L

Jake Peavy R

Jose Quintana L

Hector Santiago L

Paul Maholm L

 

BULLPEN:

Addison Reed CL R

Nate Jones SU R

Donnie Veal SU L

Ryan Madson SU R

Kyuji Fujikawa MR R

Hisanori Takahashi MR L

Nick Marounde MR L

[2nd_city_saint787]

I respect your opinion here but I don't buy it as ultimate fact. With a more typical hitter I would agree with you, but with Dunn, his lack of protection merely amplified his suck-factor rather than causing it. Plenty of teams with just 1 guy with no protection getting it done.

 

.200 is dogs*** man, it's dogs***. It means he knocks in de aza 1 out of 5 times, bottom line.

 

Do you really want him in the 3 hole next year?

 

The bold part is kinda what I'm saying. That and the oblique problem amplified it as well. He's around a .220 hitter to begin with so when you amplify that with 2 issues he's going to be even worse than that.

 

I'd rather have him in the 4 hole personally, with Rios in the 3rd...potentially more guys on for him to drive in and thats one thing he does do, drive in runs...only 20 more players in the MLB with more

[nickofypres]

Probably get ripped to shreds for this:

 

Decline Peavy, try to bring back at reasonable price

Decline Youkilis, try to bring back at reasonable price

Decline Meyers, try to bring back at reasonable price

Try to sign right handed starter

Pick up Floyd's option

Try to dump Rios, don't worry about return, getting rid of the money is worth it alone

Let Liriano walk

Let AJ Walk, time to see if Flowers is the real deal

If no Peavy go for a solid RHH (Greinke? Doubt it though), Haren, Edwin Jackson,

If no Youk, try to snatch Mark Reynolds, or David Wright (0% chance of that, though). Morel? (*sigh*)

If no Meyers, go for Dotel or Lyons.

If Rios is dumped try for Cody Ross, or Nick Swisher (will probably want a bank, so probably not going to happen)

Bring back Conor Jackson

 

Rotation: Sale, Haren/Greinke/Peavy, Danks, Floyd, Quintana

Bullpen: Reed, Thornton, Crain, Meyers/Dotel/Lyon, Santiago (long man), Veal, Jones, Omogrosso/whoever

Line up: DeAza-Youk-Dunn-Konerko-Swisher-Viciedo-Flowers-Ramirez-Beckham / DeAza-Youk-Dunn-Konerko-Viciedo-Ross-Flowers-Ramirez-Beckham

Bench: Danks-Pheghly-Conor Jackson (1B/3B/LF/RF), Olmedo (

Edited October 3, 2012 by whitesox901

[Rooftop Shots]

when i read a lot of the posts in this thread the one thing that i noticed was 4 lefties in the rotation quite a bit. Not sure what the front office will do, But my guess would be that if they can resign Peavy..............then he is in and Floyd will be moved. If not.,........unfortunately..............then Floyd has a chance of staying.(GRRRRRRRRRR) Still not sure who the odd man out is but having Sale Danks Santiago and Quintana? Dont think front office will keep 4 lefties in the rotation. Someone will have to be moved for a righty. (unless santiago will be kept around to replace Thorton as the new lefty "GO TO GUY".................and be kept around for LONG relief when needed) Still wondering if Santiago was being groomed at the end as a starter for an upcoming move also. Hard to tell. Also.............I agree that Thorton has got to go. Not just for money relief....................but not sure how some of you feel, but I have had it watching that straight as an arrow fastball get pounded. He cant get a curve over for squat...............really has no other pitch with any real consistency......................and UNLESS he locates his fastball the guy is pretty much useless. He kind of reminds me of 2005 Neal Cotts and Cliff Politte. Both had fastballs straight as an arrow...... but that year their control and location were SUPERB. But neither of them (like thorton) didnt have much else to offer. When location was bad they got pounded. Same scenario with Thorton. He's gotta go...........along with Omogrosso. Myers hasnt really been overimpressive either.

[NorthSideSox72]

STARTING SALARY (NOT INCLUDING ARB OR PREARB): $72.25 mil

 

TEAM OPTIONS / BUYOUTS

Jake Peavy- See: "TEAM FREE AGENTS"

Kevin Youkilis- Buyout. +$1 mil

Gavin Floyd- Exercise TO +$9.5 mil

Brett Myers- Buyout. +$3 mil

TOTAL: +$13.5 mil

STARTING SALARY: $72.25 mil

CURRENT SALARY/OBLIGATIONS: $85.75 mil

 

ARBITRATION

Gordon Beckham- $2.5 mil

Alejandro DeAza- RESIGN 3y/$10 mil ($2.5 mil 2013 // $3.5 mil 2014 // $4.0 mil 2015 TO)

Phil Humber- Walk

TOTAL: $5 mil

EXISTING SALARY/OBLIGATIONS: $85.75 mil

CURRENT SALARY/OBLIGATIONS: $89.75 mil

 

TEAM FREE AGENTS

Orlando Hudosn- Walk

AJ Pierzynski- Resign 2y/$15 mil ($7.5 mil 2013 // $7.5 mil 2014)

Francisco Liriano- Walk

Jose Lopez- Walk

Brian Bruney- Walk

Dewayne Wise- Resign 1y/$1.25 mil

Dan Johnson- Walk

Ray Olmedo- Walk

Deunte Heath- Walk

Jake Peavy- Resign 3y/$30.5 mil ($9.75 mil 2013 // $10 mil 2014 // $10.75 mil 2015)

TOTAL: +$18.25 mil

EXISTING SALARY/OBLIGATIONS: $89.25 mil

CURRENT SALARY/OBLIGATIONS: $108.5 mil

 

TRADES

Matt Thornton -$5.5 mil to ATL for Paul Maholm, cash +$3 mil

Gavin Floyd -$9.5 mil to LAA for Hisanori Takahashi, Nick Marounde +$4.5 mil

John Danks Trayce Thompson, Jesse Crain -$19.75 mil to NYM for David Wright +$16 mil

TOTAL: -$10.25 mil

EXISTING SALARY/OBLIGATIONS: $108.5 mil

CURRENT SALARY/OBLIGATIONS: $ 96.75 mil

 

FREE AGENTS

Sign Kyuji Fujikawa 2y/$7.5 mil ($3.5 mil 2013 // $4 mil 2014)

Sign Ryan Madson 1y/$3 mil

TOTAL: +$7.5 mil

EXISTING SALARY/OBLIGATIONS: $96.75 mil

CURRENT SALARY/OBLIGATIONS: $104.25 mil

 

PREARB SALARIES

TOTAL: +$6 mil

EXISTING SALARY/OBLIGATIONS: $104.25 mil

CURRENT SALARY/OBLIGATIONS: $110.25 mil

 

TOTAL SALARY/OBLIGATIONS: $110.25 mil

LINEUP:

Alejandro DeAza 8

David Wright 6

Adam Dunn 0

Paul Konerko 3

Alex Rios 9

AJ Pierzynski 2

Dayan Viciedo 7

Alexei Ramirez 5

Gordon Beckham 4

 

BENCH:

DeWayne Wise OF

Jordan Danks OF

Tyler Flowers C

Carlos Sanchez INF

 

ROTATION:

Chris Sale L

Jake Peavy R

Jose Quintana L

Hector Santiago L

Paul Maholm L

 

BULLPEN:

Addison Reed CL R

Nate Jones SU R

Donnie Veal SU L

Ryan Madson SU R

Kyuji Fujikawa MR R

Hisanori Takahashi MR L

Nick Marounde MR L

 

Nice details. And I generally like it, if the Sox can spend that kind of money, but... you want to move Alexei, instead of Wright, to 3B?

 

[DukeNukeEm]

Nice details. And I generally like it, if the Sox can spend that kind of money, but... you want to move Alexei, instead of Wright, to 3B?

I just kinda farted out the details of the lineup, rotation and pen. Did not even realize.

 

As for the $$$, Wright is obviously going to add some bucks to the salary, especially when you're opening up a rotation spot and leaving some holes in the bullpen. Even then this teams payroll isn't much more than what your OP calls for since I am factoring in preArb salaries. You've also got a ton of money freeing up in 2014 which could mean extension for Wright or any number of things.

 

The format hopefully makes it easier for me to put it to Soxtalk to find ways of slicing some salary that I didn't see.

Edited October 3, 2012 by DukeNukeEm

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

Let walk/ buyout - Peavy, AJP, Myers, Youk

 

Pick up option - Floyd

 

Trade - Rios, to Angels, for Conger

Crain to anybody for anything

Quintana to someone for 3B prospect/project and SP depth

 

Sign - B-MAC or Marcum, and hope Herm can keep em healthy

Scott Hairston

 

C Conger

3B Some Guy

SS Alexei

2B Beckham

1B Paulie

LF Hairston/Danks

CF De Aza

RF Viciedo

DH - Dunn

 

Sale/Floyd/Danks/Bmacormarcum/Santiago or SP Depth

Bullpen - whatever, we've got guys.

 

No use getting too specific before stuff even gets started. This team is fairly cheap and not very good offensively but has the potential to be a very good rotation. Basically, just like how the Sox were coming in to this season. Hope you get a few more career years, some bottled lightning and go to it.

 

That's close to what I can picture happening, or at least what I would like to see happen given that it probably won't be a radical reshaping. Bye-bye Peavy, Pierzynski, Youkilis, Liriano, and probably Myers- no real effort is made to keep them, either. The first three of that group could probably find someone willing to risk more money and length of contract on them based on this year. Sorry to see Pierzynski go (as he is one of my all-time Sox favorites), but it feels like the time is right to part ways. It would be nice to have Peavy in the rotation next year, but despite the image he projects, he's not coming back for free. Of course he loves it here. He would love it in Burundi or on Neptune too, if there were an MLB franchise over there willing to pay him. Not sure what Thornton's contract situation is, but his is another situation that should be looked at closely.

 

There should be a line open for anyone wishing to talk about trading for Rios, the same goes for Quintana- although the best return for him was right around this past ASB deadline, so unless someone wants to pay nicely for him, he should be kept. No idea what they go after for 3B, or C. Uribe is going into the last year of his LAD deal, but whoever it is, hopefully it's not Morel. I don't know that they wouldn't hand it over to Flowers and just go after a backup instead of a starter at C. Additions for the rotation will likely be of the unimpressive and risky variety, with the potential for a nice upside- it doesn't necessarily have to actually be B-Mac, but that's the kind of player I can see being sought.

[TaylorStSox]

In Dunn's defense, I've never seen a player robbed of more line drives due to the shift.

[Cali]

Hell, I'd like to get rid of all the people on this team that are Mentally weak. Cause I think it rubs off in the clubhouse. But that would be in the complete rebuild mode....

 

The list would include:

 

Beckham

Floyd

Konerko (you know it's true... "The Shug", from the teams supposed leader and Captain)

Dunn

Rios

AJ (to an extent)

Thorton

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Hell, I'd like to get rid of all the people on this team that are Mentally weak. Cause I think it rubs off in the clubhouse. But that would be in the complete rebuild mode....

 

The list would include:

 

Beckham

Floyd

Konerko (you know it's true... "The Shug", from the teams supposed leader and Captain)

Dunn

Rios

AJ (to an extent)

Thorton

 

Career averages with RISP and difference over career batting average. The only guy that hits worse with RISP is Dunn.

 

Gordo .261/ +.016

PK .284/ +.001

Dunn .223/ -.017

Rios .282/ +.004

AJ .286/ +.002

 

For 2012 vs 2012 average. Only Paulie was a minus.

 

Gordo .264/ +.030

PK .281/ -.018

Dunn .212/ +.008

Rios .348/ +.044

AJ .316/ +.038

[Steve9347]

Lol, how is that the one thing in my post you passionately disagree with?

 

For context, you only decline this option if you do the one major thing I posited, which is signing Greinke. Certainly, you can't have both of them.

Why suggest pipe dreams? Let's also trade for Mike Trout while we're at it.

 

Stay realistic. Grienke hates pitching in the Cell and we can't afford him. /idea

[bigruss]

I don't know if you are advocated this approach or if you are saying this is what they will do. Either way, building a middle-of-the-pack team inspires nobody.

I don't, but the Sox have put themselves in a position where most of their best players have bad contracts, and they don't have enough young talent to build a winner from within. Thus, they see themselves in an awkward position of trying to add to a mediocre team that can't sell off some of it's assets (or would be hard to do).

 

 

[bigruss]

That may be correct, but it doesn't sound like the best way to do it. The thread was about YOUR plan, not a prediction.

 

I get what you mean about trades, but you aren't naming any targets, so my original point still stands regarding the players available. Who are you targeting at those positions? What are you paying? Headley's value is premium and we won't be able to get him.

If I'm targeting players then they have to be upgrades, and I named a few in my first post:

 

Trades-

Headley

Doumit

 

Sign-

BJ Upton

2nd tier starter (Jackson, Guthrie, etc, not a huge upgrade but it is when you can trade Floyd for talent, and replace him).

Reed Johnson

 

We'd have to get creative, including trading guys like Rios/Thornton to save salary, accumulate whatever talent we can get, and create packages that entice other teams.