Chicago White Sox Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jun 2, 2013 -> 04:30 PM) Absolutely. Without question, great minor league numbers, cheap contracts. Obviously an .853 OPS from Viciedo as a 22 year old in AAA doesn't qualify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 2, 2013 -> 05:33 PM) Obviously an .853 OPS from Viciedo as a 22 year old in AAA doesn't qualify. Eh, Viciedo's had 892 big league plate appearances. We know he's not developing, we know what we're going to get out of him. Now Hosmer, he's only had 1364 big league plate appearances. Now that's a guy who still has plenty of room to grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 2, 2013 -> 03:31 PM) I see. So you're plenty willing to give time to develop to cheap trash from other teams with great minor league numbers, just not ones from the White Sox. Guys from the White Sox struggle, they need immediately replaced. Guys from the Royals struggle...hey, they're one swing away from turning it around! Great minor league numbers, at best, are only 1/4th or 1/3rd of the story with most legitimate top prospects. There's many things the casual fans don't pick up on that are signs of progress...happening behind the scenes...like with the Phegley situation, assuredly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 2, 2013 -> 04:31 PM) I see. So you're plenty willing to give time to develop to cheap trash from other teams with great minor league numbers, just not ones from the White Sox. Guys from the White Sox struggle, they need immediately replaced. Guys from the Royals struggle...hey, they're one swing away from turning it around! Balta, remember you never develop LFs, too easy to fill the position. However, finding a cheap 1B is near impossible so you have to try developing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 2, 2013 -> 05:35 PM) Great minor league numbers, at best, are only 1/4th or 1/3rd of the story with most legitimate top prospects. There's many things the casual fans don't pick up on that are signs of progress...happening behind the scenes...like with the Phegley situation, assuredly. I don't think there's any "Phegley situation" The guy's finally hitting in his 3rd year in Charlotte. He's had 2 incredible months. He's legitimately now pushing the guy in front of him on the big league roster. He keeps this up he'll be starting in the majors before the end of the year, but 2 months of success isn't enough to get very many players called up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 2, 2013 -> 03:33 PM) Obviously an .853 OPS from Viciedo as a 22 year old in AAA doesn't qualify. And no matter what minor league numbers or pedigree, there's always the Alex Gordon example. Heck, you can look at tons of guys like Raul Ibanez, Jose Bautista, Michael Morse, etc., that didn't figure things out until their late 20's or early 30's. It's the Trout/Machado/Cabrera/Harper/Griffey, Jr. Effect. If a prospect is not a major league star at age 19-20-21, he's a bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 2, 2013 -> 04:31 PM) I see. So you're plenty willing to give time to develop to cheap trash from other teams with great minor league numbers, just not ones from the White Sox. Guys from the White Sox struggle, they need immediately replaced. Guys from the Royals struggle...hey, they're one swing away from turning it around! .886 .840 .781 Career Minor League OPS's of Hosmer, Moustakas, and Viciedo. Guess which one is Viciedo's, Balta. ROFL!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I will say this, if we decide to punt this season, Danks should be in the lineup everyday one way or the other. While I don't think he'll ever become a regular, he has put up big numbers the last two years in AAA. He's the type of guy you take a look at in a wasted season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jun 2, 2013 -> 05:39 PM) .886 .840 .781 Career Minor League OPS's of Hosmer, Moustakas, and Viciedo. Guess which one is Viciedo's, Balta. ROFL!! .721 .737 .673 Career major league OPS's of Viciedo, Moustakas, and Hosmer. Guess which one is Viciedo's, Marty. ROFL!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 When's the last time the Sox fielded such an awful lineup? Was 2007 ever this bad? Next time Ventura feels the need to empty the bench, might as well do it when Danks is pitching as they probably won't win that game anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 2, 2013 -> 03:36 PM) Balta, remember you never develop LFs, too easy to fill the position. However, finding a cheap 1B is near impossible so you have to try developing them. That's why they drafted Barnum, lol. With all the minor leaguers outfield prospects, one would have assumed the KW "big board" had Viciedo getting moved to 1B/DH if 2 of those 3 upper level guys (Mitchell, Walker, Thompson) kept progressing. And they had to suspect Konerko's time was nearing an end...if not before the season, they do now. By the way, Thompson's a perfect example of a kid who could just "get it" and become a star with his set of physical tools...but there are no guarantees. You bring in 3-4 Thompson's per draft/international signing period, eventually you'll hit one of them on the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 2, 2013 -> 05:43 PM) When's the last time the Sox fielded such an awful lineup? Was 2007 ever this bad? Next time Ventura feels the need to empty the bench, might as well do it when Danks is pitching as they probably won't win that game anyways. Yes. 2007 was this bad. Jerry Owens and Andy Gonzalez were in it. The bright spot of the entire season was Josh Fields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 2, 2013 -> 04:41 PM) .721 .737 .673 Career major league OPS's of Viciedo, Moustakas, and Hosmer. Guess which one is Viciedo's, Marty. ROFL!! You got me there, Balta. You got me there. The Sox win every comparison to the KC Royals. Some damn measuring stick you have dug up. ROFL!! Edited June 2, 2013 by Marty34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jun 2, 2013 -> 05:44 PM) You got me there, Balta. You got me there. The Sox win every comparison to the KC Royals. Some damn measuring stick you have dug up. Which is obviously why you want to replicate them in every way and would happily grab their struggling young guys while insisting we need to get rid of ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 2, 2013 -> 03:39 PM) I will say this, if we decide to punt this season, Danks should be in the lineup everyday one way or the other. While I don't think he'll ever become a regular, he has put up big numbers the last two years in AAA. He's the type of guy you take a look at in a wasted season. Until you acquire other outfielders by trade or Mitchell/Walker/Thompson have justified getting an opportunity, it's hard to disagree. Although 90% odds are he's merely a 4th/5th outfielder on a playoff team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 2, 2013 -> 03:45 PM) Which is obviously why you want to replicate them in every way and would happily grab their struggling young guys while insisting we need to get rid of ours. The only thing you can say about the Royals' approach is that it was sounder than what the Mariners have done. At least they were following a strategy/formula/plan in KC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 2, 2013 -> 05:46 PM) Until you acquire other outfielders by trade or Mitchell/Walker/Thompson have justified getting an opportunity, it's hard to disagree. Although 90% odds are he's merely a 4th/5th outfielder on a playoff team. Let's just be honest, at the very least, Thompson is 1.5 years away, Walker is 2 years away, and Mitchell got his aggressive chance this year and did not succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHurt3515 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I feel so bad for our pitching staff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 2, 2013 -> 03:44 PM) Yes. 2007 was this bad. Jerry Owens and Andy Gonzalez were in it. The bright spot of the entire season was Josh Fields. I'd almost say the 4 months of excitement over Gordon Beckham in 2009 were worth it (suffering through 2007)...ALMOST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 2, 2013 -> 04:45 PM) Which is obviously why you want to replicate them in every way and would happily grab their struggling young guys while insisting we need to get rid of ours. Oh gosh, when you threw out that hypothetical about acquiring the Great Eric Hosmer and Mike Moustakas I guess I did not realize what you were getting at. Now I understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I believe we're at 58 innings and counting since our last home run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 The only good thing about 2007 was early in the year when we played on Sunday Night Baseball and Joe Morgan said our pen was one if the best he'd ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jun 2, 2013 -> 05:50 PM) Oh gosh, when you threw out that hypothetical about acquiring the Great Eric Hosmer and Mike Moustakas I guess I did not realize what you were getting at. Now I understand. Yeah. You're incredibly inconsistent. You want to rebuild with prospects with talent, but as soon as any guy struggles on our roster you can't stand it and you want to discard them. You admire and envy the struggling talent on other franchises but are unwilling to deal with the same thing happening in Chicago. That's why your desire for the Sox to dump Ramirez, Peavy, etc., don't deserve any respect. As soon as the Sox got a player back for them, you'd turn on them and demand they be replaced once they had a down month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 2, 2013 -> 03:47 PM) Let's just be honest, at the very least, Thompson is 1.5 years away, Walker is 2 years away, and Mitchell got his aggressive chance this year and did not succeed. A lot of fans have allowed the Buddy Bell PR/spin machine to help them buy into the kool aid and are feeling burned for believing in our system's progress. I really felt Mitchell had a shot coming into this season...if he could become more consistent and cut down on his K's. Never had a positive feeling about Walker, who got a lot of hype just for being the first player drafted by the Sox that particular year. 75% of it is the startling reverse in Hawkins' fortunes. And we still need Thompson's defense in CF, if he can just hit 675-725 and keep improving, that would be quite valuable. The problem is the more sub 700 OPS guys you have in a line-up, the more pressure you place on Viciedo/Rios/Dunn and the pitching staff, etc. Edited June 2, 2013 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 2, 2013 -> 04:47 PM) Let's just be honest, at the very least, Thompson is 1.5 years away, Walker is 2 years away, and Mitchell got his aggressive chance this year and did not succeed. I hear he was crushed when Deunte Heath was optioned back to Charlotte, thought it was unfair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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