Rosenthal: Tanaka to Yankees

[Dick Allen]

There are big arms all around the league the Sox could take a shot on without giving up a key player, either making a deal around a lesser veteran like DeAza, a reliever, or a prospect. None of this costs huge payroll room.

 

I agree with the poster who said we should wait until we are contenders to add big FA contracts, especially on the pitching side.

 

Just think, what happens if Danks comes back to full health, and both Johnson and Beck/other RHSP turn into above-average MLB SP? By the time we're a real contender again, we could be 6 deep and dealing with a beautiful excess of SP for all we know. Let's spend our money elsewhere & not be stupid. I mean, if we were going to hand out that kind of money, why didn't we get in on Ellsbury or Cano? Why did we stay away from McCann? Hahn isn't spending Tanaka money anywhere, especially not on a pitcher. And it's unlikely to me that Jerry Reinsdorf would ever want to go along with that anyway, nor would I see Kenny Williams on board with that, and given all the options in his deals, I see no reason why we should expect Hahn to even ask any of those guys what they thought about a Tanaka type of deal. I bet Hahn has spent more time thinking about what he plans to offer DeAza in arb than why he'd offer Tanaka. No reason to even think about it at these rumored figures.

If you have excess pitching, and no one ever really does, you can easily flip that excess for hitting.

[Quin]

If you have excess pitching, and no one ever really does, you can easily flip that excess for hitting.

 

Which Hahn showed this past offseason.

 

If the Sox think Tanaka could be good, the fact that the rest of their core is paid so little gives them to add a Tanaka type deal. It's not like we're the Angels with 1000 aging players on monster deals.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Quinarvy

[The Ultimate Champion]

If you have excess pitching, and no one ever really does, you can easily flip that excess for hitting.

This is absolutely correct, however I would much rather keep it to the Santiago-for-Eaton, Freddy-for-Gavin+Gio, Garland-for-Cabrera, McCarthy-for-Danks and not shoot for the moon trying to make some meag deal & assuming all the risk coming along with it.

 

I mean really I don't know what the team insurance is going to cover, but with Tanaka who is unproven here you don't just have the injury risk, you have a higher quantity of the Linebrink Factor, the Javy Potential, the Ritchie Risk, etc. because this guy could end up getting into some s*** & not being able to pitch his way through it. And I'm not saying that it happens for sure, but what do your expectations have to be to sign this Tanaka guy? They have to be pretty f***ing rosy, a little too rosy for the reality of a rebuilding team IMO.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Which Hahn showed this past offseason.

 

If the Sox think Tanaka could be good,mthe fact that the rest of their core is paid so little gives them to add a Tanaka type deal. It's not like we're the Angels with 1000 aging players on monster deals.

We had to dump Alex Rios to sign Abreu because Adam Dunn's donkey ass is stuck on the payroll. You don't need to have 1000 aging players, just one bad deal to set you back, especially when you're not winning, not drawing fans, and (thankfully) devoting a good chunk of money to the amateur draft and international free agency to the point where your window to add payroll to the MLB roster is pretty small.

[Quin]

This is absolutely correct, however I would much rather keep it to the Santiago-for-Eaton, Freddy-for-Gavin+Gio, Garland-for-Cabrera, McCarthy-for-Danks and not shoot for the moon trying to make some meag deal & assuming all the risk coming along with it.

 

I mean really I don't know what the team insurance is going to cover, but with Tanaka who is unproven here you don't just have the injury risk, you have a higher quantity of the Linebrink Factor, the Javy Potential, the Ritchie Risk, etc. because this guy could end up getting into some s*** & not being able to pitch his way through it. And I'm not saying that it happens for sure, but what do your expectations have to be to sign this Tanaka guy? They have to be pretty f***ing rosy, a little too rosy for the reality of a rebuilding team IMO.

 

Did you just make up some dances.

[Kyyle23]

Realistically, what are the chances Tanaka signs here?

 

I think little to no chance. However, I think if they actually make an effort, that it would not affect their attempt to find a catcher.

[The Ultimate Champion]

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...7428&st=210

 

36 people voted for offering Hamilton a contract in this poll

36 people voted against signing him at all. I voted twice. We win, everyone else lost.

 

Let's do a Tanaka version so we can go back & look at it again.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Did you just make up some dances.

Toilet Twister IMO

 

Lots of groans but very good for your focus and concentration, although a fan is necessary at times.

[PolishPrince34]

Irabu and Dasiuke were huge costs that never worked out, Darvish is the only one that I think is really all that special. Nomo had a nice long career. Outside of Darvish I'd take Count over all of them, and El Duque was a masterful pitcher, one of the mose entertaining guys I've ever watched pitch. His cousin Livan wasn't too shabby either. And let's not discount all the position players either, nor arms like Chapmann. Cuba beats the dogs*** out of Japan from an athletic standpoint IMO, and some of their pitchers have been pretty good.

 

I'm not against signing Tanaka for a reasonable rate. We're not getting one. Don't see the point in giving a guy 7 years guaranteed and huge money per who has never pitched in MLB, doesn't have Darvish's stuff apparently, and probably isn't going to do much for us in the first year or 2 given where we stand as a non-contender.

 

I would definitely take the bet that the Sox can come up with a similar caliber pitcher through other means at an excellent price over the time they'd have to pay Tanaka. I really see absolutely no logic in trying to outbid anyone for this guy. It's a terrible move & one we'd regret. Outside (of course) from the fact that Darrin Jackson would be ALL OVER this & would entertain the s*** out of me during every one of his broadcasts which Tanaka would start.

 

Another huge miss was the Yankees signing Pitcher Kei Igawa for huge money. That might have been the worst Japanesse signing of them all. Again I'm passing on Tanaka because it's going to take a 7-8 year deal to sign a pitcher. Never see Reinsdorf signing off on that decision. Way too many years for a pitcher. Plus a pitcher whose pitch counts were ridiculously high this past year in Japan.

[PolishPrince34]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/04/sports/b...ncher.html?_r=0

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1837558...akas-abused-arm

 

Hopefully this will scare people off. Injury waiting to happen.

 

 

Edited December 26, 2013 by PolishPrince34

[brian310]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/04/sports/b...ncher.html?_r=0

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1837558...akas-abused-arm

 

Hopefully this will scare people off. Injury waiting to happen.

 

Not really no. How many mlb teams have their ace out there for even 120 pitches anymore? He wouldn't be handled that was here.

[witesoxfan]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/04/sports/b...ncher.html?_r=0

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1837558...akas-abused-arm

 

Hopefully this will scare people off. Injury waiting to happen.

 

That is why you do your homework on him. If everything checks out, then he is worth the risk.

 

If he is getting 7 or 8 years, the Sox won't be in on him. If he gets closer to 5 or 6 years, then the Sox will have a chance. Ultimately, I don't think they'll sign him, but I think they'll submit a bid to at least have the ability to negotiate with him. Considering there is no payment due if you do not sign him, there's no reason for any team not to submit a bid.

[BlackSox13]

Not really no. How many mlb teams have their ace out there for even 120 pitches anymore? He wouldn't be handled that was here.

I think what Polish is getting at is the wear and tear thats already on the shoulder and elbow from such high pitch counts. The articles raise some genuine causes for concern, especially the money and years speculated for Tanaka's contract.

 

Personally I'm on the fence. Would love to take the chance, just not sure at what cost. If Im spending the coin I'd want an MRI on the shoulder and elbow to make sure all is well.

Edited December 26, 2013 by StRoostifer

[The Ultimate Champion]

That is why you do your homework on him. If everything checks out, then he is worth the risk.

 

If he is getting 7 or 8 years, the Sox won't be in on him. If he gets closer to 5 or 6 years, then the Sox will have a chance. Ultimately, I don't think they'll sign him, but I think they'll submit a bid to at least have the ability to negotiate with him. Considering there is no payment due if you do not sign him, there's no reason for any team not to submit a bid.

His agent should be able to give the Sox a very general ballpark figure as to what it would take to get into the discussion at all. I think Hahn already knows what this ballpark figure is, and he's probably already moved beyond it. The Yanks and Cubs will probably throw out a pretty good starting bid as it is, and I would assume teams like the DBacks will be early exits. The Dodgers want to spend as much money as they can. Maybe Boston gets involved, maybe the Angels again because that's just what they do, who knows maybe even Detroit with a Scherzer trade as a possible follow-up, you can't seem to count them out of anything at this point.

[brian310]

I think what Polish is getting at is the wear and tear thats already on the shoulder and elbow from such high pitch counts. The articles raise some genuine causes for concern, especially the money and years speculated for Tanaka's contract.

 

Personally I'm on the fence. Would love to take the chance, just not sure at what cost. If Im spending the coin I'd want an MRI on the shoulder and elbow to make sure all is well.

 

Well I'd assume all of that stuff would happen while agreeing to the deal before it becomes official. Im on thr fence too though. If they get him, great. If not, then its ok

[TaylorStSox]

That's a lot of money to pay for a prospect.

[BlackSox13]

Well I'd assume all of that stuff would happen while agreeing to the deal before it becomes official. Im on thr fence too though. If they get him, great. If not, then its ok

Right, I like the staff as is but adding Tanaka's potential to the rotation is mind boggling to think about.

[Balta1701]

Right, I like the staff as is but adding Tanaka's potential to the rotation is mind boggling to think about.

But simultaneously, the idea of him winding up similar to Matsuzaka in performance and injuries while getting $50 million more is terrifying.

[Rowand44]

But simultaneously, the idea of him winding up similar to Matsuzaka in performance and injuries while getting $50 million more is terrifying.

And as much as we all like Abreu we'd have a ton of money locked down on basically 2 prospects.

 

I just honestly never want to give a pitcher a 6-7 year deal and that's what he's going to get. No thanks.

[Dick Allen]

And as much as we all like Abreu we'd have a ton of money locked down on basically 2 prospects.

 

I just honestly never want to give a pitcher a 6-7 year deal and that's what he's going to get. No thanks.

Sale has a 6-7 year deal.

[Balta1701]

Sale has a 6-7 year deal.

Not if he destroys his arm somewhere, the last 3 years are all team options.

[Rowand44]

Sale has a 6-7 year deal.

He was under our control for most of those years already, much different story.

 

And what Balta said.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Rowand44

[Dick Allen]

He was under contract for most of those years already, much different story.

No he wasn't. I don't think people realize Tanaka is only 5 months older than Sale.

[Rowand44]

No he wasn't. I don't think people realize Tanaka is only 5 months older than Sale.

The contract extension added one more guaranteed year, so yes he was.

[brian310]

The contract extension added one more guaranteed year, so yes he was.

 

^This. We still would have had to have gone through the arbitration years if it wasn't for the extension.