LittleHurt05 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 01:52 PM) Track record. Reduced role. Even in a down year an over .900 OPS vs. LHP, which also keeps Adam Dunn out of the line up vs. the same LHP. Captain. Good influence on others. I heard him talking, saying playing less will allow him to help these guys more. Besides, if you want Gillaspie on the team, he plays 3B and 1B and would be taking ABs away from Davidson and Abreu. I thought that was a no no in your book. If the Sox aren't gonna compete this year, then who cares if Adam Dunn faces LHP? It doesn't matter, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 03:19 PM) If the Sox aren't gonna compete this year, then who cares if Adam Dunn faces LHP? It doesn't matter, right? Or, if we're really desperate to keep Dunn out against LHP, we could play Keppinger at 1b/DH, give Abreu some extra time at DH while still getting at bats, and keep Davidson in the lineup at 3rd, with a left handed bat on the bench available should a right handed reliever be put in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 02:19 PM) If the Sox aren't gonna compete this year, then who cares if Adam Dunn faces LHP? It doesn't matter, right? I want the Sox to win myself. If you don't care if Adam Dunn faces LHP, why would you care if Paul Konerko is taking Jake Elmore's or Jordan Danks' spot on the bench? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 02:21 PM) Or, if we're really desperate to keep Dunn out against LHP, we could play Keppinger at 1b/DH, give Abreu some extra time at DH while still getting at bats, and keep Davidson in the lineup at 3rd, with a left handed bat on the bench available should a right handed reliever be put in. So what do you think the Sox record will be with Konerko on the roster vs. without? Isn't that the bottom line? And if it's better but not playoff worthy without, isn't that better for the draft pick to have him around? Edited January 3, 2014 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 02:23 PM) So what do you think the Sox record will be with Konerko on the roster vs. without? Isn't that the bottom line? I don't think it makes much of a difference. It's not like he's holding us back from winning 90 games/ making us win 90 games. I say 74 wins with him, 75 without him. Nothing too major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 03:23 PM) So what do you think the Sox record will be with Konerko on the roster vs. without? Isn't that the bottom line? No, the bottom line should also include cost and player development as well given where this team currently sits. All of which are hurt by having Paul Konerko on the roster. But again...none of them...winning games, player development, or maximizing resources were the goal of signing Paul Konerko. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 03:23 PM) And if it's better but not playoff worthy without, isn't that better for the draft pick to have him around? Or we could just let Adam Dunn face lefties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 02:27 PM) No, the bottom line should also include cost and player development as well given where this team currently sits. All of which are hurt by having Paul Konerko on the roster. But again...none of them...winning games, player development, or maximizing resources were the goal of signing Paul Konerko. The Sox acquired Davidson and Abreu this offseason. That pretty much tells you what they think of Conor Gillaspie being much of a contributor in the future. And what does Keppinger have to do with player development. He's here because he has 2 years left on his contract. All this stuff with shake out eventually. No roster looks the same in May as it does in January. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 02:27 PM) Or we could just let Adam Dunn face lefties. Yeah, it really sucks the Sox are letting one of the team's all time great players to go out on his terms, even if it won't effect their record. They should be getting Conor Gillaspie ABs. Fools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I'm not really concerned about the Konerko/Gillaspie/Keppinger issue right now. One of Gillaspie or Keppinger will most likely be moved, and that will essentially take care of the problem. Konerko being on the roster will only be an issue for next year, and as I said, I don't think it'll be an issue soon. The worst case scenario is that Gillaspie and Keppinger are both still here come mid-March and Davidson, Elmore, and Garcia all perform well in spring training. Then some tough decisions will have to be made. But, I think all of those things coming together are slim. I expect Davidson to be the starting 3B and either Gillaspie or Keppinger to be on the bench. I'd prefer Gillaspie, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 03:31 PM) And what does Keppinger have to do with player development. He's here because he has 2 years left on his contract. I've said the phrase "maximizing resources" repeatedly but you've seemingly ignored it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 02:39 PM) I've said the phrase "maximizing resources" repeatedly but you've seemingly ignored it. Conor Gillaspie and Jeff Keppinger. Is there really anything about these players that says building blocks to a championship? Besides, if Davidson shows he's more Morel/Fields than the middle of the order bat the Sox hope he is in spring training, your two boys may be splitting some time at 3B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREEDY Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 02:34 PM) They should be getting Conor Gillaspie ABs. Fools. I can accept your stance if it is solely based on emotional attachment to Paulie (which it clearly is), but to try and justify it any other way is just incorrect. Hopefully, more moves are coming down the pipeline (not just dumping Kepp and/or Dunn) and Konerko's presence won't make a difference, but it currently does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 02:21 PM) I want the Sox to win myself. If you don't care if Adam Dunn faces LHP, why would you care if Paul Konerko is taking Jake Elmore's or Jordan Danks' spot on the bench? Because he plays the exact same position as your newest important asset. Because his presence on the roster takes away the option to give other young guys a day or two off at DH. And it might not be Danks/Elmore, it may be De Aza or Keppinger traded for pennies on the dollar because everyone knows the Sox are in a roster conundrum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 09:27 PM) Because he plays the exact same position as your newest important asset. Because his presence on the roster takes away the option to give other young guys a day or two off at DH. And it might not be Danks/Elmore, it may be De Aza or Keppinger traded for pennies on the dollar because everyone knows the Sox are in a roster conundrum. That just makes no sense. What exactly is Jeff Keppinger going to bring you in a trade whether you are desperate to get rid of him or not? The Rays let him walk for nothing and survived. There is no future All Star being screwed because Paul Konerko is going to get 150 AB vs LHP. You never know, he might even help win a couple of games. Edited January 4, 2014 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 4, 2014 -> 09:15 AM) That just makes no sense. What exactly is Jeff Keppinger going to bring you in a trade whether you are desperate to get rid of him or not? The Rays let him walk for nothing and survived. There is no future All Star being screwed because Paul Konerko is going to get 150 AB vs LHP. You never know, he might even help win a couple of games. I don't know what the Rays have to do with it, he was no longer under contract with him. And maybe he looks better in spot duty in the first half and maybe you can trade him for a warm body instead of just dumping his salary because the owner is hamstringing his young GM. And I'm still not convinced Robin won't feel pressure to play Paulie more and he will take some at bats from Abreu, a potential All Star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 4, 2014 -> 09:31 AM) I don't know what the Rays have to do with it, he was no longer under contract with him. And maybe he looks better in spot duty in the first half and maybe you can trade him for a warm body instead of just dumping his salary because the owner is hamstringing his young GM. And I'm still not convinced Robin won't feel pressure to play Paulie more and he will take some at bats from Abreu, a potential All Star. That is also based on no facts. The White Sox and Paulie have already mapped out his role. Obviously it could change with injury or a trade.The White Sox didn't pay Abreu $68 million to watch. People complain Adam Dunn is still around and playing because of money. If this is true, you have nothing to worry about regarding Abreu's playing time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share Posted January 4, 2014 If the Sox called around to the other 29 teams and offered to eat all of Adam Dunn's salary in exchange for a quality relief or UT prospect who would not have to be added to the 40-man roster then I have to believe at least someone would make that deal. I'd rather Hahn just get this out of the way and dump the guy. Similar with Keppinger, if you call the other 29 teams and say you'll eat $1M this year and $1M next year and you will take back a non-prospect in return, I have to believe someone makes that deal. Do those 2 things & now there is a lot less pressure to take a less-than-necessary return on a higher quality piece, like DeAza or IMO Gillaspie, who I think has a shot at being kind of a Mark Teahen type of player when he was on the Royals - which is nice so long as you are only playing him the minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jan 4, 2014 -> 10:09 AM) If the Sox called around to the other 29 teams and offered to eat all of Adam Dunn's salary in exchange for a quality relief or UT prospect who would not have to be added to the 40-man roster then I have to believe at least someone would make that deal. I'd rather Hahn just get this out of the way and dump the guy. Similar with Keppinger, if you call the other 29 teams and say you'll eat $1M this year and $1M next year and you will take back a non-prospect in return, I have to believe someone makes that deal. Do those 2 things & now there is a lot less pressure to take a less-than-necessary return on a higher quality piece, like DeAza or IMO Gillaspie, who I think has a shot at being kind of a Mark Teahen type of player when he was on the Royals - which is nice so long as you are only playing him the minimum. If we are going to pay them anyway, I'd rather keep them and see if we can do better later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share Posted January 4, 2014 Hahn is directing this, he's calling the shots. Abreu will play until the Sox feel he needs a break. One of the main points as far as bringing in Robin is the fact that unlike Ozzie he's not going to fight the people above him. He doesn't have those same kind of ego issues. Just look at Alexei making the club out of ST after we signed him. Look at Beckham, Boone Logan, etc. the Sox will rush anyone. I'd probably be more concerned about the Sox putting too much pressure on the guy than I'd be about him getting benched for Dunn or Paulie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share Posted January 4, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 4, 2014 -> 10:11 AM) If we are going to pay them anyway, I'd rather keep them and see if we can do better later. That's the thing though, I think we have better options on our team already. Dunn is gone, so while he has the ability to smack more HR and take more BB than Gillaspie, he doesn't have a chance to help the next 2-4 Sox teams like Gillaspie does if he continues to develop. Same with Keppinger vs. one of our UT players, especially those out of options, Kepp may be better right now but he's not going to be helping the next several Sox teams. I can't see anything significant coming back for either of those guys around the deadline, especially Dunn, who will probably have much more value now as a full-season player with his salary covered than he'd have mid-season as a rental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jan 4, 2014 -> 10:13 AM) Abreu will play until the Sox feel he needs a break. Abreu will play 145 or more games this season barring injuries. We're not paying him what we're paying him so that he gets front row seats to games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Do the Sox have an interest in John Buck the catcher? MLB network guys were making a case for the Sox to sign Buck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 02:17 PM) Keppinger, Gillaspie, and Davidson could all have made this team, giving the White Sox useful bench and backup options throughout their infield, if Paul Konerko was not retained. That would easily have been the best scenario given that Keppinger is under contract and cannot be traded or released without the White Sox eating a large portion of his salary based on his performance last year. Should Davidson not be ready in the spring, that would give the Sox the opportunity to bring along a backup SS other than the emergency ones they'd have, such as Elmore, who can also play middle IF and would be a very useful utility player overall. That's the obvious setup for both winning games, long term development of players, and maximizing the resources we currently have (i.e. potentially making Keppinger more easily traded if he gets off to a good start). None of those things were the White Sox's priority in bringing back Konerko as a player. You don't need both Keppinger and Gillaspie. If Davidson starts, one will be the utility and one will be gone. If Davidson is in AAA both will stay. I prefer Kep with his MLB track record for the UT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jan 4, 2014 -> 12:19 PM) Abreu will play 145 or more games this season barring injuries. We're not paying him what we're paying him so that he gets front row seats to games. It's weird when you refer to yourself in the third person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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