Feeky Magee Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 09:32 AM) But his K rates have been in the 35-40% rate, haven't they? It doesn't matter if you hit 40+ homers, but if he's in the 25-30 range, it will become more of an issue unless he compensates for it with a bunch of walks as well. Even if he puts up Abreu-esque numbers, that still doesn't solve their pitching problems anymore than Jose being on the White Sox can fix the 4 and 5 spots in the rotation. No? 22-27 range. And he has been walking a lot. And enormous power. He's put up a wRC+ of 209 or better at every extended stop. That's utterly insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 As painful as it is to admit, this is a great trade for the Cubs. Shark is incredibly overrated and they weren't competing next year with him. I laugh at some of these pro-Cubs posts that assume all their prospects will make it, but they sure do have a nice collection of young hitters. It will be interesting to see how they acquire all the pitching they'll need though. As we can see with this very deal, trading for established pitching is never cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friend of Nordhagen Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 12:10 PM) No? 22-27 range. And he has been walking a lot. And enormous power. He's put up a wRC+ of 209 or better at every extended stop. That's utterly insane. Bryant is truly a stud prospect. So is Russell. Baez (contact, glove) and Almora (bat questions) are less so. But the key is whether the Cubs can convince teams they are premier prospects, too, much like the Red Sox used to convince the world that their guys were. If so, they can flip them for the pitching they need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/i...series-favorite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 08:55 AM) Well the key to the Cubs (and the Astros for that matter), is just the sheer depth of talent... They're going to be bringing them up in waves... The problem is thatthe depth is all hittng. They are trading away allof theirpitching for more hitting. I'll be impressed when they acquire quality pitching without spending 100 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 09:00 AM) So don't the Cubs absolutely need to move Starlin Castro and like right now? They maymove him to left and keep them all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (ptatc @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 12:12 PM) The problem is thatthe depth is all hittng. They are trading away allof theirpitching for more hitting. I'll be impressed when they acquire quality pitching without spending 100 million. They'll just trade some of the hitting prospects they don't need, and they'll be drafting pitching for a few years I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 03:27 PM) They'll just trade some of the hitting prospects they don't need, and they'll be drafting pitching for a few years I'm sure. Still hard to see how that's a setup to a winning team in the next couple years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 07:28 PM) Still hard to see how that's a setup to a winning team in the next couple years. Trade for Price (Baez, Almora, etc), sign Lester...and you have a good starting 5 with Arrieta, Wood and Jackson. They'd still have Rizzo, Castro, Bryant, Russell, Alcantara to build around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Chances are, the more trades you make to get to the same end, the worse off you will be. Too much risk in each step of the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 I don't get the point of trading away Samardzija if they plan to acquire Price. The cost for Price should be higher than the return was for Samardzija, and both guys are about the same age, and both have 1 1/2 years left until FA. And if they get to FA, Price will command more money. I just don't see the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 09:19 PM) I don't get the point of trading away Samardzija if they plan to acquire Price. The cost for Price should be higher than the return was for Samardzija, and both guys are about the same age, and both have 1 1/2 years left until FA. And if they get to FA, Price will command more money. I just don't see the point. For starters, Price is a much better pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 03:22 PM) For starters, Price is a much better pitcher. Obviously. Which is why the cost to acquire and the cost to sign are both higher than that of Samardzija. That would make the Cubs buyers this July, not sellers. That doesn't seem like a wise plan, considering Price will be gone or very expensive by the time the team even starts to think about playoff appearances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 So the draft lovers on this board can't have it both ways. You have to admit the Cubs are probably going to be regulars in the postseason for a pretty long stretch. If you are a draftnik (I use the term in a friendly way) you probably LOVE the Cubs' chances for success in the future. So many top players in the system now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 03:35 PM) So the draft lovers on this board can't have it both ways. You have to admit the Cubs are probably going to be regulars in the postseason for a pretty long stretch. If you are a draftnik (I use the term in a friendly way) you probably LOVE the Cubs' chances for success in the future. So many top players in the system now. The Cubs have an amazing collection of great hitting prospects, and if they are able to acquire pitching through trades or FA, then they could be a very good team in the next 3-5 years, but their major league roster is so devoid of good young talent, sans Rizzo, that no one should really be counting on anything yet. They've only won half the battle so far (developing a top farm system). The other battle is constructing a good major league team to match it. Edited July 5, 2014 by Chilihead90 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 02:35 PM) So the draft lovers on this board can't have it both ways. You have to admit the Cubs are probably going to be regulars in the postseason for a pretty long stretch. If you are a draftnik (I use the term in a friendly way) you probably LOVE the Cubs' chances for success in the future. So many top players in the system now. The Cardinals are too good to simply go away...the Cubs are quite fortunate the Astros aren't in their division anymore, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 09:42 PM) The Cubs have an amazing collection of great hitting prospects, and if they are able to acquire pitching through trades or FA, then they could be a very good team in the next 3-5 years, but their major league roster is so devoid of good young talent, sans Rizzo, that no one should really be counting on anything yet. They've only won half the battle so far (developing a top farm system). The other battle is constructing a good major league team to match it. But they have what MANY on our board want, young prospects, top prospects. We have many on our board who just want prospects. Well the Cubs have a ton of em and thus are gonna win it all finally. That jinx appears to be Ova in the not so distant future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 03:51 PM) But they have what MANY on our board want, young prospects, top prospects. We have many on our board who just want prospects. Well the Cubs have a ton of em and thus are gonna win it all finally. That jinx appears to be Ova in the not so distant future. So what's your point? That because the Cubs have a lot of good prospects that the Sox shouldn't try to do the same? I don't understand where you point lies in all this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 My feeling is that the yield on prospects, even good ones, is pretty damn low. This is especially true when we're talking about young and low-level guys like Addison Russel and CJ Edwards. If you accept that maybe 1 out of 5 of pretty damn good prospects nets you a major league regular, then you have to get 5 of these guys for every one major league spot you want filled. It's hard to get that many guys via trade and the difference on your MLB roster for having done so may not be worth the effort. I've always like the Sox's more pragmatic approach, which both values prospects and is hesitant to overvalue them. We often target guys that are close to the major leagues and/or have high floors when it comes to player acquisition. Alternately, we look to high ceiling but low risk players in these situations - who cares if Moises Sierra doesn't pan out? We can release him. I'm not a huge fan of paying top dollar for players that are far away from the majors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 03:35 PM) So the draft lovers on this board can't have it both ways. You have to admit the Cubs are probably going to be regulars in the postseason for a pretty long stretch. If you are a draftnik (I use the term in a friendly way) you probably LOVE the Cubs' chances for success in the future. So many top players in the system now. Man, you do not get this. I love this trade for the Cubs as Samardzija was gone anyway. 0% chance he was staying. Cubs get a top prospect in return AND another good A's prospect. The downside? Still 0 pitching. And the Sox are doing a combination of what the Cubs are doing - trying to acquire good prospects - and getting MLB talent like Avi, Eaton, and Abreu. Toss in the fact that the Sox have two pillars in the rotation (Sale and Q) signed cheaply, just drafted one of the most vaunted college pitchers of all time, and I'll still take what the Sox are doing. The Cubs are going "all in" on prospects. Sox aren't. I'd hate if we tried to go all in on prospects, ESPECIALLY hitting prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 04:40 PM) My feeling is that the yield on prospects, even good ones, is pretty damn low. This is especially true when we're talking about young and low-level guys like Addison Russel and CJ Edwards. If you accept that maybe 1 out of 5 of pretty damn good prospects nets you a major league regular, then you have to get 5 of these guys for every one major league spot you want filled. It's hard to get that many guys via trade and the difference on your MLB roster for having done so may not be worth the effort. I've always like the Sox's more pragmatic approach, which both values prospects and is hesitant to overvalue them. We often target guys that are close to the major leagues and/or have high floors when it comes to player acquisition. Alternately, we look to high ceiling but low risk players in these situations - who cares if Moises Sierra doesn't pan out? We can release him. I'm not a huge fan of paying top dollar for players that are far away from the majors. This is basically what I tried to say, but better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 02:51 PM) But they have what MANY on our board want, young prospects, top prospects. We have many on our board who just want prospects. Well the Cubs have a ton of em and thus are gonna win it all finally. That jinx appears to be Ova in the not so distant future. That worked out so well when Hosmer, Moustakas and Bubba Starling led the Royals to the 2014 World Series title last year. Even "can't miss" guys like Wil Myers haven't proven themselves to be bulletproof. Other than Bryant, the Cubs don't have anyone you can be sure is going to make a huge impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 04:01 PM) That worked out so well when Hosmer, Moustakas and Bubba Starling led the Royals to the 2014 World Series title last year. Even "can't miss" guys like Wil Myers haven't proven themselves to be bulletproof. Other than Bryant, the Cubs don't have anyone you can be sure is going to make a huge impact. And neither does pretty much any team without a top 5 prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 09:45 PM) Man, you do not get this. I love this trade for the Cubs as Samardzija was gone anyway. 0% chance he was staying. Cubs get a top prospect in return AND another good A's prospect. The downside? Still 0 pitching. And the Sox are doing a combination of what the Cubs are doing - trying to acquire good prospects - and getting MLB talent like Avi, Eaton, and Abreu. Toss in the fact that the Sox have two pillars in the rotation (Sale and Q) signed cheaply, just drafted one of the most vaunted college pitchers of all time, and I'll still take what the Sox are doing. The Cubs are going "all in" on prospects. Sox aren't. I'd hate if we tried to go all in on prospects, ESPECIALLY hitting prospects. I didn't know you wanted balance. I thought you were one of the 'all in' prospects guys. My bad. I do think a lot of people on this board are 'all in' prospects guys and would be thrilled if we were doing what the Cubs are doing. I'm a free agent guy myself. Just NOT free agents like Dunn. Geez he had a lousy Sox tenure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 06:22 PM) I didn't know you wanted balance. I thought you were one of the 'all in' prospects guys. My bad. I do think a lot of people on this board are 'all in' prospects guys and would be thrilled if we were doing what the Cubs are doing. I'm a free agent guy myself. Just NOT free agents like Dunn. Geez he had a lousy Sox tenure. I really don't think anyone on this board is an 'all in' person because if so a lot of us would want to trade Sale, Q, and Abreu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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