This just in from Paul Sullivan at the Trib:

 

(The link: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0930-story.html

 

Sale and Ventura got into it in Ventura's office last Thursday, the day after he drilled VMart in Detroit.

 

Explains why Sale was not at the ballpark that night for KC game, an absence that was explained away by "personal reasons," that night.

 

Ventura is quoted in the story and said that Sale came to him the next day and apologized. No quotes from Sale.

 

Does not explain who started the argument -- A. Robin because Sale did a dumb thing; B. Sale because he wanted Ventura to defend him even more or C. Sale because maybe he was pissed that Avi told VMart what made Sale mad.

 

Hmmmm.

Edited September 30, 201411 yr by winninguglyin83

Juicy. Can't yell at your manager Chris

I'm loathe to defend Robin but Sale just comes off more and more poorly here. He's obviously a great competitor but come on man. It didn't even seem to affect him on the field either until he plunked v-mart just because he felt like it.

 

Every since then he's just been digging the hole deeper.

Edited September 30, 201411 yr by chitownsportsfan

still a young guy.

 

hope he outgrows it.

 

And that he remembers that you play to win the game -- and hitting VMart did nothing to help that idea

 

Probably a stretch, but you wonder if it will have any effect on VMart's interest in Sox.

I have no beefs with Robin the man. I'm convinced Sale is in the wrong here.

still a young guy.

 

hope he outgrows it.

 

And that he remembers that you play to win the game -- and hitting VMart did nothing to help that idea

 

Probably a stretch, but you wonder if it will have any effect on VMart's interest in Sox.

 

yea this is key. if that was a playoff race game as a Sox fan I'd be pretty damn pissed. Ok, if they are really stealing signs tell the manager and let him deal with it don't put a guy on just because you're pissed off.

 

I like sale he'll learn from this and become better. he comes across as very self aware and while maybe a bit impulsive/foolhardy at times is also a cerebral top notch competitor.

 

Agreed with everything all of you have said so far. I really hope the off season will allow everyone to move past this. I really don't want to see any grudges from either team carried over into next year.

also might have cost him the ERA title.

 

 

Non-story. They had an argument in the manager's office. Sale apologized the next day. That's how things should go. The only reason we know is because somebody tattled.

I don't like the idea of hitting guys in general, but if the opponent is essentially trying to cheat - as in, use something in their environment to their that the other team cannot use to their own advantage - something has to be done about it. If there's a guy in CF looking in, stealing signs, and signaling that to the hitters, then something needs to be done about it.

 

The best course of action would have been for Sale to tell Ventura, who then could have informed the umpire what his player felt was going on. The ump could have simply done that, worked with security, and had the man removed from his spot. Perhaps Sale was looking out less for him - he was crusing, after all - and moreso for his teammates in the bullpen because he knew he didn't have much longer.

 

Perhaps Sale noticed it early on. Say, for example, he'd throw a slider and know there was no way they could have guessed that pitch correctly but did so. Then he mixed up his signs with the catcher so that say changeup was 1, fastball was 2, fastball out of the zone was 3, and slider was 4 (or whatever) and upon doing that, saw guys not cheating but looking for his traditional pitches in those counts. Chris is a smart guy and can see what's going on. But his relievers don't have that opportunity. They come in and have to face about 3-5 guys at a time, so they just have to keep working with the signs they give him and it's a lot harder for them to switch up their signs on such notice like that.

 

Come spring training, this will all be water under the bridge.

Sale is completely in the wrong. But I hope it blows up and Robin gets fired since Sale is way more valuable. /dream

I am guessing Ventura took Sale aside and said that he had no problem with Chris throwing at Martinez in the situation, but the show afterwards was what needed to go.

 

Also a note for the remaining Guillen crowd, note they took care of it behind closed doors. There was no show in the dugout. There was no show for the media. This is how you handle a situation.

 

And a note for the Ventura doesn't show emotion crowd, here you go... again. Ventura isn't afraid to take on the top player on a team, whether it was Frank Thomas while they were playing together, or Chris Sale as a manager.

Sale could have stabbed me and Robin could have saved my life and I still would have sided with Chris.

 

But seriously, not a huge deal if it was behind closed doors.

Robin gotta go....fire his ass today.

Robin gotta go....fire his ass today.

 

Well that's not going to happen.

Well that's not going to happen.

Tomorrow?

Tomorrow?

 

Not until he costs us 32 games in a season, instead of only 30.

Robin gotta go....fire his ass today.

 

He'll get another extension before he's fired

He'll get another extension before he's fired

 

well robin had 2 very difficult yrs of OJT and next yr may the yr he kind of

put it together.

 

the problem with this quagmire is, the sox is not going to get rid of him, we as

fans has to hope for the best the only recurring excuse is / was the sox is

rebuilding. now Hahn is throwing Robin a curve here stating the sox will

be competitive next yr.

well robin had 2 very difficult yrs of OJT and next yr may the yr he kind of

put it together.

 

the problem with this quagmire is, the sox is not going to get rid of him, we as

fans has to hope for the best the only recurring excuse is / was the sox is

rebuilding. now Hahn is throwing Robin a curve here stating the sox will

be competitive next yr.

OJT?

 

OJT?

On job training?

Sale didn't handle himself very well last week. He's a good guy, but he messed up. It happens.

Robin gotta go....fire his ass today.

They can let Sale manage, but he doesn't have any experience so he won't know like typical message board posters hiw to craft a line up, unless he has been secretly posting on here or other boards. Then you are looking at at least 145 wins a season.

On job training?

Ah, thank you.

 

well robin had 2 very difficult yrs of OJT and next yr may the yr he kind of

put it together.

 

the problem with this quagmire is, the sox is not going to get rid of him, we as

fans has to hope for the best the only recurring excuse is / was the sox is

rebuilding. now Hahn is throwing Robin a curve here stating the sox will

be competitive next yr.

One thing that annoys me and I think we saw it twice on Sunday - the Sox have an inordinate number of runners thrown out at home on infield grounders. it's like they have to go every time. I don't know if that's Ventura or not,but it needs to stop.

Ventura is a terrible manager except 1 aspect: he's a house-horse for Williams and Hahn. And that's probably just what they want until the Sox are ready to win (which likely won't be next year with 3B, LF, DH and pitchers left to fill).