KW "We're a lot closer than the record indicates"

[Chicago White Sox]

Except we said this about Paulino and our veteran pen guys eight months ago.

No way on masterson unless we can control him going into 2016 if he pitches at his previous level again.

If he pitches at his previous level and then leaves, we most likely are getting a compensation pick as a result.

[chw42]

He was pretty steadily between 92-93 on his fastball, and he went from 93 to just over 90 this year. Any injury talk? I didn't realize there was that kind of drop off.

 

With his weird throwing motion, I wouldn't doubt that he's hurt. He's thrown a lot of innings in the past 5 years.

[witesoxfan]

It's like a read option. You go in looking for one thing (contention), but if it isn't working out, you have an easy backup plan. This model of "contending while rebuilding" makes a ton of sense for a lot of reasons. Chiefly, you're trying to dodge service time AND wean guys into a full season of innings anyway. It doesn't hurt to throw some innings at a veteran and see what you have, particularly when you can then trade him to give your system even more prospects.

Except we said this about Paulino and our veteran pen guys eight months ago.

No way on masterson unless we can control him going into 2016 if he pitches at his previous level again.

 

No, that is the perfect example as to why you make a move like that. They gave Paulino a shot to prove himself, he didn't, and they jumped ship immediately. They gave Downs a shot, he stunk, and they jumped ship immediately. Frankly, I think they kept Belisario because the stuff was still good and they wanted to see if they could get him straightened out and, bottom line, they need SOMEONE to pitch those innings. They couldn't, and he'll likely be non-tendered this offseason.

 

So I believe Eminor would like to thank you for the perfect example of what the Sox should do. They can probably shoot a little higher up the ladder than Paulino, but the idea remains.

 

Also, when the good you are trying to acquire is unique by itself, and you are going up against 29 other teams, the player has a lot of leverage, especially early on. Someone who has had success like Masterson in the past will likely command a lot of 1 year offers and he'd likely take 1/$6 mill compared to 1/$10 with a team option for year 2 because he has a higher earning potential with the 1/$6. I am very sure he'll get a standard one year deal.

[caulfield12]

No, that is the perfect example as to why you make a move like that. They gave Paulino a shot to prove himself, he didn't, and they jumped ship immediately. They gave Downs a shot, he stunk, and they jumped ship immediately. Frankly, I think they kept Belisario because the stuff was still good and they wanted to see if they could get him straightened out and, bottom line, they need SOMEONE to pitch those innings. They couldn't, and he'll likely be non-tendered this offseason.

 

So I believe Eminor would like to thank you for the perfect example of what the Sox should do. They can probably shoot a little higher up the ladder than Paulino, but the idea remains.

 

Also, when the good you are trying to acquire is unique by itself, and you are going up against 29 other teams, the player has a lot of leverage, especially early on. Someone who has had success like Masterson in the past will likely command a lot of 1 year offers and he'd likely take 1/$6 mill compared to 1/$10 with a team option for year 2 because he has a higher earning potential with the 1/$6. I am very sure he'll get a standard one year deal.

 

If we go for these same types of players without a higher risk/reward payoff we'll be stuck at .500 for 2-3 years.

[Rowand44]

If we go for these same types of players without a higher risk/reward payoff we'll be stuck at .500 for 2-3 years.

Wait...you're saying that Masterson doesn't have a higher potential reward than Paulino?

[Kyyle23]

Wait...you're saying that Masterson doesn't have a higher potential reward than Paulino?

 

I dont really want Masterson, but him and Paulino arent comparable at all imo. Paulino had no established success at the major league level, just a few good starts spread over a few years. Masterson has had success, and you could look at him and think you can squeeze a few more years out of him if the contract is right.

[Bruce_Blixton]

No, that is the perfect example as to why you make a move like that. They gave Paulino a shot to prove himself, he didn't, and they jumped ship immediately. They gave Downs a shot, he stunk, and they jumped ship immediately. Frankly, I think they kept Belisario because the stuff was still good and they wanted to see if they could get him straightened out and, bottom line, they need SOMEONE to pitch those innings. They couldn't, and he'll likely be non-tendered this offseason.

 

So I believe Eminor would like to thank you for the perfect example of what the Sox should do. They can probably shoot a little higher up the ladder than Paulino, but the idea remains.

 

Also, when the good you are trying to acquire is unique by itself, and you are going up against 29 other teams, the player has a lot of leverage, especially early on. Someone who has had success like Masterson in the past will likely command a lot of 1 year offers and he'd likely take 1/$6 mill compared to 1/$10 with a team option for year 2 because he has a higher earning potential with the 1/$6. I am very sure he'll get a standard one year deal.

 

Totally agree that this is the best strategy to address our rotation over the next couple of years, by signing a reclamation project like Masterson or possibly Brandon Morrow to a short-term "prove it" deal the Sox limit their downside while having the potential of a lot of upside if they can regain their previous form. With Rodon waiting in the wings to enter the rotation and another high draft pick this year to acquire another front-end pitching prospect the Sox would be smart to have a bunch of short-term deals that can be easily unloaded to make space for the pitchers that have a better pedigree.

 

Ideally I'd like to see the Sox sign Masterson to a cost-effective 2 year deal and eventually take Danks' spot in the rotation, Morrow would be another good choice and would most likely be way cheaper but he also carries the same injury/bust risk as Paulino did this year. Still that 10 K/9 he had for a few years would look really nice in our rotation...

[witesoxfan]

Totally agree that this is the best strategy to address our rotation over the next couple of years, by signing a reclamation project like Masterson or possibly Brandon Morrow to a short-term "prove it" deal the Sox limit their downside while having the potential of a lot of upside if they can regain their previous form. With Rodon waiting in the wings to enter the rotation and another high draft pick this year to acquire another front-end pitching prospect the Sox would be smart to have a bunch of short-term deals that can be easily unloaded to make space for the pitchers that have a better pedigree.

 

Ideally I'd like to see the Sox sign Masterson to a cost-effective 2 year deal and eventually take Danks' spot in the rotation, Morrow would be another good choice and would most likely be way cheaper but he also carries the same injury/bust risk as Paulino did this year. Still that 10 K/9 he had for a few years would look really nice in our rotation...

 

I really like the idea of adding Morrow, but not as a starter. I'd get kinky with it and take a risk on Morrow in hopes that he can turn into the next Wade Davis.

[BlackSox13]

OK, change up time. Any thoughts on the Sox going after Melky Cabrera? Signing Cabrera leaves the Sox with hopefully enough to pry Belt away from the Giants. Now the DH/LF and back up 1B positions have been addressed as well as adding two lefty bats to the lineup.

[southsider2k5]

OK, change up time. Any thoughts on the Sox going after Melky Cabrera? Signing Cabrera leaves the Sox with hopefully enough to pry Belt away from the Giants. Now the DH/LF and back up 1B positions have been addressed as well as adding two lefty bats to the lineup.

 

FWIW

[LDF]

OK, change up time. Any thoughts on the Sox going after Melky Cabrera? Signing Cabrera leaves the Sox with hopefully enough to pry Belt away from the Giants. Now the DH/LF and back up 1B positions have been addressed as well as adding two lefty bats to the lineup.

 

I really would like to see the final deadline when clubs need to offer QO like this

I can see which players are getting them.

[BlackSox13]

FWIW

That's fine. I'd be willing to bet Cabrera rejects the QO and opts for FA. He's 30 and this could likely be his last chance at a long term deal (3-5 years). Plus its likely he could get a bit more per year than the QO.

 

[cabiness42]

I really would like to see the final deadline when clubs need to offer QO like this

I can see which players are getting them.

 

Deadline to extend QO is five days after the end of the World Series, and the deadline to accept is seven days after that.

[BlackSox13]

I really would like to see the final deadline when clubs need to offer QO like this

I can see which players are getting them.

Any idea when the deadline is?

[BlackSox13]

Deadline to extend QO is five days after the end of the World Series, and the deadline to accept is seven days after that.

Thank you sir.

[southsider2k5]

That's fine. I'd be willing to bet Cabrera rejects the QO and opts for FA. He's 30 and this could likely be his last chance at a long term deal (3-5 years). Plus its likely he could get a bit more per year than the QO.

 

It still means we would give up a 2nd round pick to sign him, in addition to the contract.

[BlackSox13]

It still means we would give up a 2nd round pick to sign him, in addition to the contract.

I would be fine with that. The Sox have the money to spend and are not going to "contend" as they have said without spending some money on free agents and I'm not talking about cheap reclamation projects.

 

The Sox farm system is not strong enough yet to fill all he holes via trades. They will have to speak money, period.

[witesoxfan]

As I've mentioned previously, signing one QO free agent decreases the opportunity cost required to sign the next one.

 

Say Melky Cabrera, Victor Martinez, and David Robertson all receive QOs. Signing just one of them requires you give up a 2nd round pick, which is a lot to give up. But if you sign all 3, you can logically say the Sox are only giving up a 3rd round pick for Cabrera/Martinez and a 4th round pick for Robertson. Suddenly, the cost/benefit is technically worth doing so, and the Sox potentially have a team that can win the division next year.

[Balta1701]

I would be fine with that. The Sox have the money to spend and are not going to "contend" as they have said without spending some money on free agents and I'm not talking about cheap reclamation projects.

 

The Sox farm system is not strong enough yet to fill all he holes via trades. They will have to speak money, period.

I'm generally not going to be as angry at the concept of signing a FA who has a qualifying offer this year as I was last year...but I'm generally unimpressed by the guys available, including M. Cabrera. Decent season last year but when you count both the suspension and what he did in 2013, paying a whole lot of money for him does not seem like a very smart risk to me.

[Balta1701]

As I've mentioned previously, signing one QO free agent decreases the opportunity cost required to sign the next one.

 

Say Melky Cabrera, Victor Martinez, and David Robertson all receive QOs. Signing just one of them requires you give up a 2nd round pick, which is a lot to give up. But if you sign all 3, you can logically say the Sox are only giving up a 3rd round pick for Cabrera/Martinez and a 4th round pick for Robertson. Suddenly, the cost/benefit is technically worth doing so, and the Sox potentially have a team that can win the division next year.

The other thing to note, if it matters, is that by virtue of where we finished, with only a couple teams between us and a non-protected pick, the draft pick cost to signing a FA with a qualifying offer will likely not be lower any time soon.

[Eminor3rd]

No, that is the perfect example as to why you make a move like that. They gave Paulino a shot to prove himself, he didn't, and they jumped ship immediately. They gave Downs a shot, he stunk, and they jumped ship immediately. Frankly, I think they kept Belisario because the stuff was still good and they wanted to see if they could get him straightened out and, bottom line, they need SOMEONE to pitch those innings. They couldn't, and he'll likely be non-tendered this offseason.

 

So I believe Eminor would like to thank you for the perfect example of what the Sox should do. They can probably shoot a little higher up the ladder than Paulino, but the idea remains.

 

Also, when the good you are trying to acquire is unique by itself, and you are going up against 29 other teams, the player has a lot of leverage, especially early on. Someone who has had success like Masterson in the past will likely command a lot of 1 year offers and he'd likely take 1/$6 mill compared to 1/$10 with a team option for year 2 because he has a higher earning potential with the 1/$6. I am very sure he'll get a standard one year deal.

 

Exactly!

 

Thanks, caulfield!

[witesoxfan]

All kinds of good discussion here.

 

I'm generally not going to be as angry at the concept of signing a FA who has a qualifying offer this year as I was last year...but I'm generally unimpressed by the guys available, including M. Cabrera. Decent season last year but when you count both the suspension and what he did in 2013, paying a whole lot of money for him does not seem like a very smart risk to me.

 

I'm not fond of the QO free agents either, but if you combine 2 or 3 of them, I am more apt to making those signings.

 

The new CBA really makes things interesting in cases just like that. While I doubt that Sox would ever take on this type of money. I would imagine their first rounder would be a guy way under contract and you'd probably see a pretty good talent drafted and signed over slot in one of the 4th, 5th or 6th rounds.

 

No idea what actual implications would be for whom the Sox would take, but obviously they'd be an interesting team to look out for. You could also see them try and acquire a competitive balance pick too.

 

The other thing to note, if it matters, is that by virtue of where we finished, with only a couple teams between us and a non-protected pick, the draft pick cost to signing a FA with a qualifying offer will likely not be lower any time soon.

 

This is also a valid point, and given how close the Sox feel they are, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see them go out of their way to sign those types because those players DO come at a discount financially.

[Eminor3rd]

I really like the idea of adding Morrow, but not as a starter. I'd get kinky with it and take a risk on Morrow in hopes that he can turn into the next Wade Davis.

 

I love the idea of guys that could try to be starters in the spring, but that we could easily move to the bullpen without a second thought. I think Morrow and Masterson both fit into this category, and since they won't come with draft pick compensation, I'd be comfortable outbidding several teams on AAV if it's one year or one year with an option.

[Dunt]

As I've mentioned previously, signing one QO free agent decreases the opportunity cost required to sign the next one.

 

Say Melky Cabrera, Victor Martinez, and David Robertson all receive QOs. Signing just one of them requires you give up a 2nd round pick, which is a lot to give up. But if you sign all 3, you can logically say the Sox are only giving up a 3rd round pick for Cabrera/Martinez and a 4th round pick for Robertson. Suddenly, the cost/benefit is technically worth doing so, and the Sox potentially have a team that can win the division next year.

 

This is an excellent point and would also be interesting in terms of order with which they sign people. Is the signing of say Victor Martinez even more valuable if you give the Tigers a 4th round pick instead of a potential 1st, 2nd, or 3rd? I would definitely think so.

[Eminor3rd]

This is an excellent point and would also be interesting in terms of order with which they sign people. Is the signing of say Victor Martinez even more valuable if you give the Tigers a 4th round pick instead of a potential 1st, 2nd, or 3rd? I would definitely think so.

 

That's now how it works anymore -- the Tigers are going to get a sandwich pick, regardless. The only place the protected pick matters is with the team that loses it. Teams don't "give" their picks anymore, they just disappear.