Dodgers aggressively pursuing Alexei

[2nd_city_saint787]

here it is, and this will be my last negative opinion on him for several days.

 

$15 per. on an unproven pitcher. is there going to be a posting fee?

 

Edinson Volquez - 2 yrs, $18 mil

Carlos Villanueva - 2/3 $7 mil per

Ryan Vogelsong even him for 1 yr

 

much better with a track record.

 

Sox were rumored to be in on Tanaka and they signed Abreu, I don't think they have a problem throwing money at unproven players.

 

I wouldn't really say any of those guys have a good track record.

 

Volquez before this past year had a track record of being awful.

 

Villanueva has a track record of being a bad SP...He didn't even start for a Cubs team that didn't have a good rotation.

 

I kinda like Vogelsong, he's a good story, but outside of cozy AT&T Park he's had a 4.81 the last 3 years. Don't think he'd fair well playing his home games in the cell.

 

 

Maybe Coop and company think Volquez can continue, or Villanueva can be the next Noesi, but ya, IMO Maeda offers much higher upside

 

[Eminor3rd]

here it is, and this will be my last negative opinion on him for several days.

 

$15 per. on an unproven pitcher. is there going to be a posting fee?

 

Edinson Volquez - 2 yrs, $18 mil

Carlos Villanueva - 2/3 $7 mil per

Ryan Vogelsong even him for 1 yr

 

much better with a track record.

 

None of those guys are "solutions." Volquez is a ticking time bomb if you believe in peripherals foreshadowing future performance at all. Villaneuava is a swing man. Vogelsong might be alright, but not for more than a year or MAYBE two.

 

The thing I like about the potential of Maeda is that he has a chance to produce above average numbers for us for 4-5 years. I'm okay with spending money, I just want it to be on controllable assets that are actually candidates to be "added to the core."

 

That said, Maeda might be garbage. It will depend on our scouts' impressions. But if they like him, I have no problem with the Sox going as high as they think he's worth.

[LDF]

Sox were rumored to be in on Tanaka and they signed Abreu, I don't think they have a problem throwing money at unproven players.

 

I wouldn't really say any of those guys have a good track record.

 

Volquez before this past year had a track record of being awful.

 

Villanueva has a track record of being a bad SP...He didn't even start for a Cubs team that didn't have a good rotation.

 

I kinda like Vogelsong, he's a good story, but outside of cozy AT&T Park he's had a 4.81 the last 3 years. Don't think he'd fair well playing his home games in the cell.

 

 

Maybe Coop and company think Volquez can continue, or Villanueva can be the next Noesi, but ya, IMO Maeda offers much higher upside

 

the point is those players you mention came with a huge amount

of hype. When KW went to the yank's academy to see Jose, he immediately

called JR and rave about him being the real deal.

 

with that in mind, Maeda started the yr with some negative, and i am sorry

but i can't remember. however there was some thought of him being at best

a #3 but a steady #4, at $15 mil for 4 yrs?

 

posters are having a huge problem with Dank at $15 mil. what is Maeda going

for $15 mil. what is the difference?

 

 

edit..... my bad, i said that the previous was my last negative post today.

Edited November 20, 2014 by LDF

[2nd_city_saint787]

the point is those players you mention came with a huge amount

of hype. When KW went to the yank's academy to see Jose, he immediately

called JR and rave about him being the real deal.

 

with that in mind, Maeda started the yr with some negative, and i am sorry

but i can't remember. however there was some thought of him being at best

a #3 but a steady #4, at $15 mil for 4 yrs?

 

posters are having a huge problem with Dank at $15 mil. what is Maeda going

for $15 mil. what is the difference?

 

 

edit..... my bad, i said that the previous was my last negative post today.

 

No need to back off the "arguement".....Though this should all probably be done in the Maeda thread

 

Like you've said it's all subjective.

 

It keeps being said the last few years that 1 WAR=5M in value. John Danks wasn't a 3 WAR player. In my opinion, this of course being key here, Maeda can indeed be a 3 WAR player and thus be worth 15M.

Edited November 20, 2014 by scs787

[LDF]

None of those guys are "solutions." Volquez is a ticking time bomb if you believe in peripherals foreshadowing future performance at all. Villaneuava is a swing man. Vogelsong might be alright, but not for more than a year or MAYBE two.

 

The thing I like about the potential of Maeda is that he has a chance to produce above average numbers for us for 4-5 years. I'm okay with spending money, I just want it to be on controllable assets that are actually candidates to be "added to the core."

 

That said, Maeda might be garbage. It will depend on our scouts' impressions. But if they like him, I have no problem with the Sox going as high as they think he's worth.

 

disclaimer i am not posting on Maeda. just responding to the pitchers i wrote.

 

yeah i am have some problems with Volquez. but man he is enticing.

his profile is niccceeee. i would love to give him a shot. esp with the offense

the sox are estimating to get. easily a 10-15 wins.

 

same thing with Villaneuava, i may be blinded, b/c i was always a fan of his.

give him a good team, let him play to what he is capable of, an #4 with out

any pressure, the whole new atmosphere will be a great change.

 

and lastly Vogelsong, a quite leader who is well like. 1 yr option 2.

[LDF]

No need to back off the "arguement".....Though this should all probably be done in the Maeda thread

 

Like you've said it's all subjective.

 

It keeps being said the last few years that 1 WAR=5M in value. John Danks wasn't a 3 WAR player. In my opinion, this of course being key here, Maeda can indeed be a 3 WAR player and thus be worth 15M.

 

arguement???? i thought it was a nice discussion.

[Eminor3rd]

disclaimer i am not posting on Maeda. just responding to the pitchers i wrote.

 

yeah i am have some problems with Volquez. but man he is enticing.

his profile is niccceeee. i would love to give him a shot. esp with the offense

the sox are estimating to get. easily a 10-15 wins.

 

same thing with Villaneuava, i may be blinded, b/c i was always a fan of his.

give him a good team, let him play to what he is capable of, an #4 with out

any pressure, the whole new atmosphere will be a great change.

 

and lastly Vogelsong, a quite leader who is well like. 1 yr option 2.

 

Just out of curiosity, what is it that you like so much about Volquez? Maybe I'm missing something, but when I look at his numbers, I see a low ERA surrounded by all kinds of terrifying, doomsday-panic-inducing numbers. It looks like he finally got his walk-rate to a barely acceptable number by giving up on strikeouts completely, posting the lowest rate of his career, aided by HR/FB rate, BABIP, and a strand rate significantly better than his career norms. This guy is a textbook example of a dude who is about to regress hard.

 

I mean, don't get me wrong, I haven't watched the guy pitch and this DIPS-related prognosticating definitely isn't right every time, but when you see almost literally every red flag on a guy, I gotta feel like he's one to stay away from, especially considering how many other options there are on the market at a similar cost.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Eminor3rd

[LDF]

Just out of curiosity, what is it that you like so much about Volquez? Maybe I'm missing something, but when I look at his numbers, I see a low ERA surrounded by all kinds of terrifying, doomsday-panic-inducing numbers. It looks like he finally got his walk-rate to a barely acceptable number by giving up on strikeouts completely, posting the lowest rate of his career, aided by HR/FB rate, BABIP, and a strand rate significantly better than his career norms. This guy is a textbook example of a dude who is about to regress hard.

 

I mean, don't get me wrong, I haven't watched the guy pitch and this DIPS-related prognosticating definitely isn't right every time, but when you see almost literally every red flag on a guy, I gotta feel like he's one to stay away from, especially considering how many other options there are on the market at a similar cost.

 

ok i see a really good pitcher. now let me say this, i am not into the advance stats nor

do i know how to read them. so you all will have a great start on me. however,

he has pitched with a track record of 9 wins+ a yr. his hit to so is really good. has a

good workload of inning pitched per yr. doesn't give up a lot of gophers. overall a really

good pitcher. he is also at a great cost control. he, if head was screwed on right, would be easily at least 13 + mil.

 

his profile is very good.

 

Volquez throws 4 pitches, a low to mid 90's fastball, a two-seam fastball that

clocks also in the low 90's, a mid 80's changeup and a mid 70's curveball.

Throughout his career, Volquez has struggled with command of his pitches.

 

surround him with a great environment where he is not being counted for

the best or second best results. i honestly think he will be a person who could

improve with a nice club.

[Eminor3rd]

ok i see a really good pitcher. now let me say this, i am not into the advance stats nor

do i know how to read them. so you all will have a great start on me. however,

he has pitched with a track record of 9 wins+ a yr. his hit to so is really good. has a

good workload of inning pitched per yr. doesn't give up a lot of gophers. overall a really

good pitcher. he is also at a great cost control. he, if head was screwed on right, would be easily at least 13 + mil.

 

his profile is very good.

 

 

 

surround him with a great environment where he is not being counted for

the best or second best results. i honestly think he will be a person who could

improve with a nice club.

 

Thanks for taking the time to elaborate.

[LDF]

Thanks for taking the time to elaborate.

no prob ...... this is a great discussion.

[harfman77]

You want to hold on to the money for five more years? Will that money at least gain some interest while the Sox wait for Otani to be posted?

 

Anyway. Anyone know what's up with the link? I clicked it and it would appear the article is gone now. What were Rogers' suggestions?

 

Yes, I think the Sox can sign short term solutions in the meanwhile to hold spots in the rotation until guys like Danish and Beck are ready to contribute and that the large amount of money being tossed at a backend starter would be better invested elsewhere. Something like McCarthy or Masterson on a one or two year deal is just as appealing to me as Maeda.

[LDF]

Yes, I think the Sox can sign short term solutions in the meanwhile to hold spots in the rotation until guys like Danish and Beck are ready to contribute and that the large amount of money being tossed at a backend starter would be better invested elsewhere. Something like McCarthy or Masterson on a one or two year deal is just as appealing to me as Maeda.

 

there is no reason to go all hog wild and sign everybody to big contracts. a couple of short, really

short terms contracts esp to pitchers would be nice. next yr FA pitchers, some look really good.

 

there are other pitchers this yr that might be interesting, Josh Johnson, Brett Anderson, plus i really

like Tim Stauffer who can spot start, long relief or even short relief.

[Eminor3rd]

Yes, I think the Sox can sign short term solutions in the meanwhile to hold spots in the rotation until guys like Danish and Beck are ready to contribute and that the large amount of money being tossed at a backend starter would be better invested elsewhere. Something like McCarthy or Masterson on a one or two year deal is just as appealing to me as Maeda.

 

We can't forget that, as promising as these guys are, there's a VERY good chance that all three of Beck, Danish, and Montas end up as relievers. The latter two, especially, traditonally profile much better in those roles. Not saying we should give up on them, but they aren't the type of guys, IMO, that we avoid long-term SP acquisitions for to avoid blocking them.

[Rowand44]

We can't forget that, as promising as these guys are, there's a VERY good chance that all three of Beck, Danish, and Montas end up as relievers. The latter two, especially, traditonally profile much better in those roles. Not saying we should give up on them, but they aren't the type of guys, IMO, that we avoid long-term SP acquisitions for to avoid blocking them.

I really don't think Danish profiles well to a reliever at all. I can definitely see that with Montas, but completely disagree on Danish.

[GreenSox]

We can't forget that, as promising as these guys are, there's a VERY good chance that all three of Beck, Danish, and Montas end up as relievers. The latter two, especially, traditonally profile much better in those roles. Not saying we should give up on them, but they aren't the type of guys, IMO, that we avoid long-term SP acquisitions for to avoid blocking them.

Danish profiles as a reliever due to his delivery.

Montas doesn't profile as a reliever at all, unless the Sox have to rush him on up and devalue their young players. He's 21 years old and his secondary pitches are improving. He may not fully develop, but that's true for any pitcher. But he doesn't profile as a reliever.

Actually it scares me a little that he's on the 40 man. I don't think he's rule 5 eligible, and he won't be ready for a rotation spot this year.

Edited November 20, 2014 by GreenSox

[LDF]

I really don't think Danish profiles well to a reliever at all. I can definitely see that with Montas, but completely disagree on Danish.

 

i like Danish and as a starter, however the baseball pro's see him as a rp. they should know

more than I. so i don't know.

Edited November 20, 2014 by LDF

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Danish profiles as a reliever due to his delivery.

Montas doesn't profile as a reliever at all, unless the Sox have to rush him on up and devalue their young players. He's 21 years old and his secondary pitches are improving. He may not fully develop, but that's true for any pitcher. But he doesn't profile as a reliever.

Actually it scares me a little that he's on the 40 man. I don't think he's rule 5 eligible, and he won't be ready for a rotation spot this year.

 

Danish profiles as a reliever due to his funky delivery.

Montas profiles as a reliever due to his uneven delivery that scouts think will give him control issues.

 

Both guys have the stuff to be starters, and both guys can overcome those issues because they are more "I don't like how this looks" and not "this isn't working". They are both getting results with their deliveries, and until they aren't anymore, I don't see why we shouldn't assume they will be starters.

[Eminor3rd]

Danish profiles as a reliever due to his funky delivery.

Montas profiles as a reliever due to his uneven delivery that scouts think will give him control issues.

 

Both guys have the stuff to be starters, and both guys can overcome those issues because they are more "I don't like how this looks" and not "this isn't working". They are both getting results with their deliveries, and until they aren't anymore, I don't see why we shouldn't assume they will be starters.

 

This, exactly.

[LDF]

Danish profiles as a reliever due to his funky delivery.

Montas profiles as a reliever due to his uneven delivery that scouts think will give him control issues.

 

Both guys have the stuff to be starters, and both guys can overcome those issues because they are more "I don't like how this looks" and not "this isn't working". They are both getting results with their deliveries, and until they aren't anymore, I don't see why we shouldn't assume they will be starters.

a very nice write up. really sounded professional

 

keep up the good work.

 

thanks

[caulfield12]

Remember Hahn's comments last year about justifying going after Tanaka because it was believed he could be the ace of a rotation....which turned out to be true for a half-season? And he was beginning the prime of his career?

 

That's never been applied to Maeda. Once.

 

I still think if he was another Iwakuma, Kuroda or Chen (Orioles/Taiwan), it would be a nice addition....but then you have the Safeco effect to take into consideration with Iwakuma. Even veteran Chris Young looked pitchable there. Maeda could just as easily end up as another Kei Igawa, Irabu, Dice-K.

 

The biggest problem for me is his upside is Iwakuma, not Tanaka. And that's not the kind of $100+ million wager you make. You go after two Moncadas before you take one Maeda.

Edited November 20, 2014 by caulfield12

[oldsox]

Danish profiles as a reliever due to his delivery.

Montas doesn't profile as a reliever at all, unless the Sox have to rush him on up and devalue their young players. He's 21 years old and his secondary pitches are improving. He may not fully develop, but that's true for any pitcher. But he doesn't profile as a reliever.

Actually it scares me a little that he's on the 40 man. I don't think he's rule 5 eligible, and he won't be ready for a rotation spot this year.

Montas has 5 yrs in pro ball, so he would have been eligible to be picked if not promoted to 40 man.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Remember Hahn's comments last year about justifying going after Tanaka because it was believed he could be the ace of a rotation....which turned out to be true for a half-season? And he was beginning the prime of his career?

 

That's never been applied to Maeda. Once.

 

I still think if he was another Iwakuma, Kuroda or Chen (Orioles/Taiwan), it would be a nice addition....but then you have the Safeco effect to take into consideration with Iwakuma. Even veteran Chris Young looked pitchable there. Maeda could just as easily end up as another Kei Igawa, Irabu, Dice-K.

 

The biggest problem for me is his upside is Iwakuma, not Tanaka. And that's not the kind of $100+ million wager you make. You go after two Moncadas before you take one Maeda.

 

Iwakuma got Cy Young and MVP votes in 2013...Last year he had a 2.45 era on the road.

 

There's a reason why he's projected to get that much.

 

[Whisox05]

Buster Olney

Rival evaluators say the White Sox asking price on Alexei Ramirez is steep, to the degree that you'd want to be buying in for 2-3 years. https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/535600657445945344

[Bigsoxhurt35]

As it should be.

[caulfield12]

Well, they would be buying in for TWO years of Ramirez.

 

I couldn't imagine any team would be absolutely sure that they'd even want to keep Alexei in 2017.

 

It's completely a "win now" move.