I would like to see them shift him around the outfield and see how he handles all 3 positions. That will give plenty of opportunities to see him hit as well. Then go to SP w some insight to his hitting as well as the position he most helps the team out in.

I think CF profiles as his best position. Would be nice if he could be a league average bat there with above average D. Eaton would probably profile as a good defensive LF and it would allow us to jettison Avi and LaRoche and replace our RF with a free agent... perfect world scenario here again but jeez that would be nice.

Trayce Thompson is better than Kyle Schwarber.

 

TFT.

TTIBTKS or Trathisbethankylesch

Edited August 28, 201510 yr by Swingandalongonetoleft

I just don't understand this logic. Trayce is older than Avi and put up inferior numbers in the minors. Why do people all of the sudden think he's the answer? Because he's played good for the few games he's played? He put up low .700 OPSs in AAA. The odds of him just suddenly figuring it out at the ML level are not that high. I need to see at minimum another 200 PAs before I even consider beginning to make any sort of judgment on him.

 

There is a lot of logic to this.

 

I agree that its too early to know.

 

BUT

 

Avi Garcia in 3 seasons has never looked as good as Thompson has.

 

The ability to take pitches.

The ability to pull the ball with authority.

All start with those... there are more.

Yay, TFT. For real.

 

Trayce Thompson is still more likely to be a bust than a productive ML player. It's just reality, though I hope he proves everyone wrong.

 

That said, I don't think people here really understand how bad Avisail Garcia has been. We're not talking about a so-so Major Leaguer who just hasn't realized his upside -- we're talking about almost 1000 PA of SUBSTANTIALLY below replacement level. A league-average player is two wins ABOVE replacement level per season. Avi has literally played worse than what could be expected from a random AAA scrub in each of the four seasons he's touched the majors. The bat is about one standard deviation below league average, and the glove is about one standard deviation step from legendarily bad.

 

Yes, he's got upside, and it certainly could all click one day. But he's got a LONG way to climb before he's even an average player, let alone any kind of star.

I really hate responding to you because you are so smart and I am an ignoramus. What I mean is do normal baseball fans these days even know what you're saying ?

 

My guess there's not too many who can explain the theory of being replacement level, which is the easier of the things you are trying to say. Now I know some might think they know what it is but couldn't quite put it into words if you asked them without looking it up 1st.

 

Bat is one standard deviation below league average and glove one below legendary bad ? Let me look all that up on the back of todays modern baseball card, or let some announcers on baseball telecasts explain it to me . Oh wait pretty much the only place you find this stuff is online or in some level of math class I never got to or forgot long ago.

 

You may very well be right about Avi but by traditional numbers Alexei, LaRoche , Flowers have been worse right ? I can't understand why then a MLB organization with reems and reems of all this wonderful new data can play all 4 of those guys full time .

 

Maybe I'm wrong and I'm sure there will be others to say they understand most advanced stats but I still believe there is a wide gap between a regular baseball explanation for why Avi is so bad and the advanced metrics explanation .At least half the people who read what you said can't explain in more simple terms. And I actually think it's more than 50% and there are more highly educated young men on Soxtalk than your average fan.

 

I'm a dinosaur I know but when people used to talk baseball they didn't need a chalk board with a lot of x's on it with derivatives and 5 syllable mathematical terms.

 

Baseball used to unite the classes , unite the young and the old, now its just one more thing that divides us.

I really hate responding to you because you are so smart and I am an ignoramus. What I mean is do normal baseball fans these days even know what you're saying ?

 

My guess there's not too many who can explain the theory of being replacement level, which is the easier of the things you are trying to say. Now I know some might think they know what it is but couldn't quite put it into words if you asked them without looking it up 1st.

 

Bat is one standard deviation below league average and glove one below legendary bad ? Let me look all that up on the back of todays modern baseball card, or let some announcers on baseball telecasts explain it to me . Oh wait pretty much the only place you find this stuff is online or in some level of math class I never got to or forgot long ago.

 

You may very well be right about Avi but by traditional numbers Alexei, LaRoche , Flowers have been worse right ? I can't understand why then a MLB organization with reems and reems of all this wonderful new data can play all 4 of those guys full time .

 

Maybe I'm wrong and I'm sure there will be others to say they understand most advanced stats but I still believe there is a wide gap between a regular baseball explanation for why Avi is so bad and the advanced metrics explanation .At least half the people who read what you said can't explain in more simple terms. And I actually think it's more than 50% and there are more highly educated young men on Soxtalk than your average fan.

 

I'm a dinosaur I know but when people used to talk baseball they didn't need a chalk board with a lot of x's on it with derivatives and 5 syllable mathematical terms.

 

Baseball used to unite the classes , unite the young and the old, now its just one more thing that divides us.

 

I'm really NOT trying to be an asshole and I'm not trying to talk down my nose. What you said is EXACTLY my point actually -- if you only look at his average and his RBIs, it seems like he's just mediocre. But when you actually quantify how bad his defense is, look at how hard it is for him to get on base, and then compare him to other players in RF, he looks so so so much worse than just mediocre. I'm not pointing it out to be a troll, I'm pointing it out because it isn't obvious unless you take a deeper look, and I know not everyone gives a s*** about this stuff to take that deeper look.

 

And that's actually one of the biggest differences from the sabermetric perspective and the traditional one: looking at players in a context that makes more sense. Yes, LaRoche/Flowers/Alexei have been worse hitters on a raw level, but when you compare Flowers/Alexei to what you can realistically expect from guys at their positions, they don't look any worse than Avi (LaRoche has no such excuse).

 

The reason I always end up posting this type of stuff isn't because I'm smart, it's because I'm willing to waste more of my time reading about all this type of stuff than the average fan. It doesn't make me cool, it makes me a f***ing geek.

 

 

Even if Trayce can only put up an OPS of .650ish, if he plays good defense and is average on the basepaths then that is already a better option than Avi.

Even if Trayce can only put up an OPS of .650ish, if he plays good defense and is average on the basepaths then that is already a better option than Avi.

 

Better option than Avi? Maybe, but a team is going to have a very hard time winning with a .650 OPS corner OF, regardless of how good he is at defense and baserunning.

Yay, TFT. For real.

 

Trayce Thompson is still more likely to be a bust than a productive ML player. It's just reality, though I hope he proves everyone wrong.

 

That said, I don't think people here really understand how bad Avisail Garcia has been. We're not talking about a so-so Major Leaguer who just hasn't realized his upside -- we're talking about almost 1000 PA of SUBSTANTIALLY below replacement level. A league-average player is two wins ABOVE replacement level per season. Avi has literally played worse than what could be expected from a random AAA scrub in each of the four seasons he's touched the majors. The bat is about one standard deviation below league average, and the glove is about one standard deviation step from legendarily bad.

 

Yes, he's got upside, and it certainly could all click one day. But he's got a LONG way to climb before he's even an average player, let alone any kind of star.

 

I don't know about bust, at this point he's reached the show which is something that seemed unlikely except in emergencies as recently as last year.

 

He, at the very least, is an ideal 4th outfielder as he hits LHP very well (and can thus spell and PH), plays defense well, and runs.

 

That appears to be the baseline. Now, the flipside is we could have finally gotten very lucky and something clicked with a position player. It seems this happens in other organizations, so I am holding out hope here.

Better option than Avi? Maybe, but a team is going to have a very hard time winning with a .650 OPS corner OF, regardless of how good he is at defense and baserunning.

Despite my growing reputation as a whiner (somewhat deservedly, I admit), I honestly feel like I don't want to give up on him just yet.

Better option than Avi? Maybe, but a team is going to have a very hard time winning with a .650 OPS corner OF, regardless of how good he is at defense and baserunning.

Avi is the 2nd worst defensive RF in baseball according to UZR and he can't hit. I'd rather have an strong defender that can at least crush lefties.

Edited August 31, 201510 yr by Knackattack

Avi is the 2nd worst defensive RF in baseball according to UZR and he can't hit. I'd rather have an strong defender that can at least crush lefties.

 

You're missing my point. Just being better than Avi has been this year is not a high enough standard to set for 2016 if the Sox expect to field a contending team.

I think Avi needs to start next year in Charlotte.

I think Avi needs to start next year in Charlotte.

I don't think that will do anything for him. He will go right back to ripping AAA pitchers like he was in 2013 before being traded and he'll still struggle when he is again faced with big league stuff.

 

In the minors you can succeed by taking outside pitches and blooping them the other way. In the bigs, people put out scouting reports saying "don't throw the ball to him there, bust him inside and dare him to pull it, and stay off the plate and dare him to take the pitch".

Avi is actually a really good hitter when pitchers accidentally throw him strikes, and on the rare occasions he actually makes them throw him strikes. There is really no reason to throw him a strike at this point. If he figures that out at all, he can be a force.

If we told avi not to swing at anything for 2 weeks I wonder what his OBP would be.

Avi is actually a really good hitter when pitchers accidentally throw him strikes, and on the rare occasions he actually makes them throw him strikes. There is really no reason to throw him a strike at this point. If he figures that out at all, he can be a force.

 

Sox are 29th in the league in walks. There's no reason to throw strikes to about 2/3 of the lineup. Even Abreu's walk rate is way down.

Avi is actually a really good hitter when pitchers accidentally throw him strikes, and on the rare occasions he actually makes them throw him strikes. There is really no reason to throw him a strike at this point. If he figures that out at all, he can be a force.

I feel like he is a good mistake breaking ball hitter but I've seen many pitchers beat him up and in with fastballs. Not to mention all you gotta do is throw 6 inches off the plate and he will swing through it every time

From the Balder chat

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/chat/?1441735443

 

Danny (Chicago): What's Trayce Thompson's ceiling?

 

 

Ben Badler: I don't see an obvious role for him other than getting some occasional big league trials. Plus raw power but still an overaggressive, pull approach without great feel for hitting or OBP skills.

That's what I thought he would look like but instead his at bats have been very patient and not pull heavy. So I'm sure long-run they are right but he's been very pleasant so far.

From the Balder chat

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/chat/?1441735443

 

Danny (Chicago): What's Trayce Thompson's ceiling?

 

 

Ben Badler: I don't see an obvious role for him other than getting some occasional big league trials. Plus raw power but still an overaggressive, pull approach without great feel for hitting or OBP skills.

 

Bad Badler hasn't seen his approach. He goes to right often and isn't overly aggresive to me at all.

Ya, I have to say I've actually been pretty impressed by how well Trayce is squaring up the ball. He makes a lot of hard contact.

I really hate responding to you because you are so smart and I am an ignoramus. What I mean is do normal baseball fans these days even know what you're saying ?

 

My guess there's not too many who can explain the theory of being replacement level, which is the easier of the things you are trying to say. Now I know some might think they know what it is but couldn't quite put it into words if you asked them without looking it up 1st.

 

Bat is one standard deviation below league average and glove one below legendary bad ? Let me look all that up on the back of todays modern baseball card, or let some announcers on baseball telecasts explain it to me . Oh wait pretty much the only place you find this stuff is online or in some level of math class I never got to or forgot long ago.

 

You may very well be right about Avi but by traditional numbers Alexei, LaRoche , Flowers have been worse right ? I can't understand why then a MLB organization with reems and reems of all this wonderful new data can play all 4 of those guys full time .

 

Maybe I'm wrong and I'm sure there will be others to say they understand most advanced stats but I still believe there is a wide gap between a regular baseball explanation for why Avi is so bad and the advanced metrics explanation .At least half the people who read what you said can't explain in more simple terms. And I actually think it's more than 50% and there are more highly educated young men on Soxtalk than your average fan.

 

I'm a dinosaur I know but when people used to talk baseball they didn't need a chalk board with a lot of x's on it with derivatives and 5 syllable mathematical terms.

 

Baseball used to unite the classes , unite the young and the old, now its just one more thing that divides us.

 

I like this post!

Dan Hayes ‏@CSNHayes 9s9 seconds ago

Extremely limited sample size but so far Trayce Thompson is 7-for-13 against right-handed pitchers.

@ckamka: Trayce Thompson (through 1st PA tonight)

3 HR, .739 SLG in 50 PA this season

7-13, 2B, HR vs righties

#WhiteSox

 

 

Gives me something to be excited about albeit a very small sample size.