Hahn Confirms: Ventura back for 2016

[soxfan49]

Thome for Manager 2017

[Dick Allen]

Whatever ... I hope Robin changes a bit. Obviously talent is the biggest thing for a manager. But his teams simply cannot lay down a bunt (reflects poorly on him), they do not play defense, they cannot move runners, they cannot score runners.

He does a decent enough job with pitchers (maybe Coop takes care of that).

 

Now maybe it's 100 percent on his players. Who knows? But Robin's teams APPEAR very undisciplined, very fundamentally unsound. He deserves a D for this season, C- at best but I'd give him a D.

This kind of bothers me? It isn't a major league manager's job to teach players how to bunt or catch or throw.

 

Just think of last January when the Sox hired Vince Coleman. I was at the Soxfest seminar when Hahn broke that news and it was met with applause. The base running problems are ova! They get to spring training. Every day the local news show Vince putting these players through drills and interviewing him about his philosophy. All these guys are going to get better jumps, they are all going to steal a ton of bases. They are going to be taking extra bases, no more station to station.

 

Then, reality hits. The season starts. No one can steal a base. Everyone make poor decisions on the base paths, so much so you want even the fast guys to go station to station. In the end, sometimes you are what you are. Some players just aren't going to be good fielders. Some won't ever hit. Some will always be boneheaded on the bases, and a few will take a little from that work and become most likely, slightly better.

 

I have yet to see a saber metric stat for coaching factor. Maybe that is in the works, but I doubt it. I am sure there have been guys that became great that wouldn't have been great because of a major league coach or manager. But there are very few.

[harkness99]

Simple Question Dick.

 

Why do you love Robin so much?

 

There are pretty clear reasons as to why people have a problem (losing)

 

But regardless why you defend him with such vigor.

 

Why?

[Vance Law]

Meh. They need better players before I worry about the manager.

 

Thank you.

[Dick Allen]

Simple Question Dick.

 

Why do you love Robin so much?

 

There are pretty clear reasons as to why people have a problem (losing)

 

But regardless why you defend him with such vigor.

 

Why?

Really not that huge of a fan. I like him, but I think problems are fixed by targeting the problems. Firing Robin doesn't make the White Sox a better baseball team. It might appease the people frothing at the mouth, but every loss isn't on him. People act like if the Sox had someone they would consider "competent" we will throw out Dave Martinez who nobody here knows, nobody here has any idea why he keeps getting turned away, even in TB, but thinks he will be a great manager because when he watches games. He sits next to Joe Maddon, this team apparently would be playoff contenders the last 4 years. I am not the one being illogical.

[harkness99]

Really not that huge of a fan. I like him, but I think problems are fixed by targeting the problems. Firing Robin doesn't make the White Sox a better baseball team. It might appease the people frothing at the mouth, but every loss isn't on him. People act like if the Sox had someone they would consider "competent" we will throw out Dave Martinez who nobody here knows, nobody here has any idea why he keeps getting turned away, even in TB, but thinks he will be a great manager because when he watches games. He sits next to Joe Maddon, this team apparently would be playoff contenders the last 4 years. I am not the one being illogical.

 

 

I agree with a lot of what you said.

 

They tried getting new players and it was all the same.

 

I don't think he deservers to be or should be back.

Edited October 2, 2015 by harkness

[Vance Law]

An organization in serious trouble and that's their idea of fixing the brain-trust, not bringing in new people from outside the organization to look at the number of problems with new ideas.

 

Manager barely matters unless it is someone as insane and toxic as Ozzie. Ned Yost was the biggest dumb piece of s*** manager in baseball, until their young players finally started playing well. Now he's a genius. And if you want to argue "hey, I never said Ned Yost is a genius," then look at the Royals record and see how much the manager matters if you have a lineup full of valuable players.

 

The amount of anger and vitriol heaped on Robin is at about a 10 when it should be more like a 1.5.

 

[OmarComing25]

Manager barely matters unless it is someone as insane and toxic as Ozzie. Ned Yost was the biggest dumb piece of s*** manager in baseball, until their young players finally started playing well. Now he's a genius. And if you want to argue "hey, I never said Ned Yost is a genius," then look at the Royals record and see how much the manager matters if you have a lineup full of valuable players.

 

The amount of anger and vitriol heaped on Robin is at about a 10 when it should be more like a 1.5.

Well said, agree with everything here. Managers get too much credit when a team wins, and too much blame when a team loses.

[Dick Allen]

I agree with a lot of what you said.

 

They tried getting new players and it was all the same.

 

I don't think he deservers to be or should be back.

Whoever you think is the best manager in baseball, if they managed the 2015 White Sox, do you think they are a playoff team?

 

 

[2nd_city_saint787]

This was my thought as well. I'll probably Periscope the Q&A so everyone can watch at home.

 

 

Don't have a dog in this fight, but it's hilarious that a lot of angry fans have no idea who Steverson is. When Walker was here, and the offenses were really good, he was the scapegoat to everything and perhaps the most hated coach of the last ten years. I think he beats Robin in that regard. Steverson doesn't even get mentioned.

 

Glad I'm not the only one who finds it funny.

 

I'm of the belief that your hitting coach is responsible for the hitters and the pitching coach the pitchers. A manger, IMO, just keeps everyone in line so to speak.

 

Hitting has been a big issue and yet I only hear Steversons name when I bring him up.

 

 

 

[Vance Law]

Glad I'm not the only one who finds it funny.

 

I'm of the belief that your hitting coach is responsible for the hitters and the pitching coach the pitchers. A manger, IMO, just keeps everyone in line so to speak.

 

Hitting has been a big issue and yet I only hear Steversons name when I bring him up.

 

Are the baseball players responsible for anything?

[South Side Fireworks Man]

If I told you I was taking the bait from a former Sox manager with no axe to grind who proved to be right since he told me a week ago Parent was out the door would that change things for you?

 

I don't make this stuff up, I don't try to stir up s***. I pass good information on from my sources in the Chicago media and in the Sox organization to the fans who still care enough about this franchise. Period.

 

You can take it, leave it, throw it in the garbage...doesn't impact me at all...just trying to pass along what I hear from time to time.

 

If the board wishes me to stop, please let the mods know, they'll tell me and I'll refrain from doing so in the future.

 

Fair enough? Really its that simple.

 

Mark

I enjoy your posts and am glad you came over to this board. Just my two cents.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Manager barely matters unless it is someone as insane and toxic as Ozzie. Ned Yost was the biggest dumb piece of s*** manager in baseball, until their young players finally started playing well. Now he's a genius. And if you want to argue "hey, I never said Ned Yost is a genius," then look at the Royals record and see how much the manager matters if you have a lineup full of valuable players.

 

The amount of anger and vitriol heaped on Robin is at about a 10 when it should be more like a 1.5.

 

Exactly, well said. There are countless other examples of coaches being awful until they got an actual talented team.

 

Terry Francona's first 4 years were god awful, then he went to an already talented team and is now considered one of the best managers in baseball.

 

[SCCWS]

I am a White Sox fan living on the east coast. I also agree that managers get too much blame and credit. But I did see a good number of Tampa bay games in person the last few years and always thought Maddon got a lot out of a roster with limitations. I have not seen a single Cub game. But they had one hell of a reversal this season. I would think Maddon is a manager that has an impact.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Are the baseball players responsible for anything?

 

Touche. I'm not even following my whole little signature line of logic here. Ha.

[Tannerfan]

I think the big concern for me is retaining Ventura makes me feel we have officially entered into the Jerry Reinsdorf as an elderly out of touch owner phase ala Al Davis.

These guys get to the point where the times have passed them by but they think they are still sharp as tacks and in control.

My thing with Reinsdorf is I've always felt his top priority was making money for his partners. Sort of like the character Hyman Roth in Godfather II. Winning and White Sox fans are 2nd and 3rd behind the partners. But now I think age and what not have settled him into the older man place of not wanting a lot of hassles in his life. Fire Robin? But then we have to find somebody else and negotiate a deal and he has to meet everybody and gee maybe it's better just to give the guy a little more time. Change radio announcers? Gosh that sounds like a lot of work, let's just keep the guys we've got.

How about on the TV side? Mr Country Catch Phrase is going to be back I betcha.

The downward spiral has probably only just begun for the White Sox. God I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

 

[Dick Allen]

Are the baseball players responsible for anything?

Yes. They are assholes when they won't sign things on the sweet spot. That's about it.

[OmarComing25]

I am a White Sox fan living on the east coast. I also agree that managers get too much blame and credit. But I did see a good number of Tampa bay games in person the last few years and always thought Maddon got a lot out of a roster with limitations. I have not seen a single Cub game. But they had one hell of a reversal this season. I would think Maddon is a manager that has an impact.

Maddon is a good manager but the impact even a good manager can have on overall wins is pretty minimal. The Rays have won more games in 2015 than they did last year, and they made few changes in the off-season and were ravaged by injuries this year.

[flavum]

All of the factors play into why they should replace Ventura:

 

1- As far as I know, he had no aspirations to manage before October, 2011.

2- They spit out a division in 2012.

3- They lost 99 games in 2013---and he got an extension.

4- They play sloppy baseball. Like it or not, that is a reflection on the manager.

5- They sucked again in 2014

6- The front office went out and made moves we perceived to be positive. They certainly had expectations themselves to win going into this season.

7- They sucked again in 2015

 

It doesn't matter if it was his fault or not. When a team sucks like they've sucked, you make a change. It was a joke he got hired in the first place. To keep going back to this group year after year is an insult to the fanbase. There has to be qualified candidates out there that they can bring in, and make a better decision for the team. Then you give that guy a 3-year deal which is pretty standard, and try something new. If that doesn't work, you go to the next guy. That's how it works. 5 years for Robin Ventura after these last three? That's a joke.

[Dick Allen]

I think the big concern for me is retaining Ventura makes me feel we have officially entered into the Jerry Reinsdorf as an elderly out of touch owner phase ala Al Davis.

These guys get to the point where the times have passed them by but they think they are still sharp as tacks and in control.

My thing with Reinsdorf is I've always felt his top priority was making money for his partners. Sort of like the character Hyman Roth in Godfather II. Winning and White Sox fans are 2nd and 3rd behind the partners. But now I think age and what not have settled him into the older man place of not wanting a lot of hassles in his life. Fire Robin? But then we have to find somebody else and negotiate a deal and he has to meet everybody and gee maybe it's better just to give the guy a little more time. Change radio announcers? Gosh that sounds like a lot of work, let's just keep the guys we've got.

How about on the TV side? Mr Country Catch Phrase is going to be back I betcha.

The downward spiral has probably only just begun for the White Sox. God I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

Tanner fan?

 

Do you know Chuck Tanner has the major league record for consecutive last place finishes by a manager? It's true.

 

I don't know what really is going on in JR's mind, I don't think any of us do. I do think he has been running his businesses successfully most of his life, and feels a responsibility to his shareholders to maintain top business practices. If anything, he seems to be taking more chances lately. Before he signed Adam Dunn after 2010, he hadn't signed another team's free agent for more than $20 million total since Albert Belle. I find the notion that JR doesn't know what he is doing, or doesn't care or want to make the effort to get better preposterous. The only thing I have noticed is he seems more than little cranky the past couple of years. Stories about him with the Bulls and Manfred's election. I wonder how much losing his son has affected him. I would imagine more than we will ever know, or want to know.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

All of the factors play into why they should replace Ventura:

 

1- As far as I know, he had no aspirations to manage before October, 2011.

2- They spit out a division in 2012.

3- They lost 99 games in 2013---and he got an extension.

4- They play sloppy baseball. Like it or not, that is a reflection on the manager.

5- They sucked again in 2014

6- The front office went out and made moves we perceived to be positive. They certainly had expectations themselves to win going into this season.

7- They sucked again in 2015

 

It doesn't matter if it was his fault or not. When a team sucks like they've sucked, you make a change. It was a joke he got hired in the first place. To keep going back to this group year after year is an insult to the fanbase. There has to be qualified candidates out there that they can bring in, and make a better decision for the team. Then you give that guy a 3-year deal which is pretty standard, and try something new. If that doesn't work, you go to the next guy. That's how it works. 5 years for Robin Ventura after these last three? That's a joke.

Excellent post.

[OmarComing25]

After the last off-season, I think questioning JR's desire to make the White Sox better doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The moves may have mostly backfired, but you don't spend all that money on free agents just due to shareholders. He's too loyal and slow to make changes in the front office, but that's a different conversation.

Edited October 2, 2015 by OmarComing25

[GreatScott82]

Normally a manager gets fired after two years of missing the postseason... Maybe his 5th years a charm?

[chitownsportsfan]

All of the factors play into why they should replace Ventura:

 

1- As far as I know, he had no aspirations to manage before October, 2011.

2- They spit out a division in 2012.

3- They lost 99 games in 2013---and he got an extension.

4- They play sloppy baseball. Like it or not, that is a reflection on the manager.

5- They sucked again in 2014

6- The front office went out and made moves we perceived to be positive. They certainly had expectations themselves to win going into this season.

7- They sucked again in 2015

 

It doesn't matter if it was his fault or not. When a team sucks like they've sucked, you make a change. It was a joke he got hired in the first place. To keep going back to this group year after year is an insult to the fanbase. There has to be qualified candidates out there that they can bring in, and make a better decision for the team. Then you give that guy a 3-year deal which is pretty standard, and try something new. If that doesn't work, you go to the next guy. That's how it works. 5 years for Robin Ventura after these last three? That's a joke.

 

Sticky this post to the top of the page.

[Tannerfan]

Tanner fan?

 

Do you know Chuck Tanner has the major league record for consecutive last place finishes by a manager? It's true.

 

I don't know what really is going on in JR's mind, I don't think any of us do. I do think he has been running his businesses successfully most of his life, and feels a responsibility to his shareholders to maintain top business practices. If anything, he seems to be taking more chances lately. Before he signed Adam Dunn after 2010, he hadn't signed another team's free agent for more than $20 million total since Albert Belle. I find the notion that JR doesn't know what he is doing, or doesn't care or want to make the effort to get better preposterous. The only thing I have noticed is he seems more than little cranky the past couple of years. Stories about him with the Bulls and Manfred's election. I wonder how much losing his son has affected him. I would imagine more than we will ever know, or want to know.

Hey Dick, you had arguably your best season ever under Chuch Tanner. Where's the love?