2016-2017 NFL Thread

[StrangeSox]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/01/23/sport...wasnt-committed

[ptatc]

You can't establish 2 without good procedures. That's the whole point.

 

Eta with Braun chain of custody was broken, right? So you can't actually guarantee he conclusively failed the test. I'm sure we're all 99.9% that he did, but the authorities need to be able to actually prove it and they can't if the right procedures aren't followed.

We'll just disagree. I think the facts are the facts. You can know the facts without the procedure. In the NFL, they know the footballs were underinflated. That is breaking the rules, regardless of why, how, or anything else.

 

In Braun's case. The chain of custody had nothing to do with the results of the test. There was no tampering with the sample. The technician couldn't send it with Fed Ex the same day as it was closed by the time he got there. He sent it the next day. A violation of the chain of custody but wouldn't effect the test. It would be different if the sample could have been altered. It wasn't.

[StrangeSox]

We'll just disagree. I think the facts are the facts. You can know the facts without the procedure. In the NFL, they know the footballs were underinflated. That is breaking the rules, regardless of why, how, or anything else.

 

In Braun's case. The chain of custody had nothing to do with the results of the test. There was no tampering with the sample. The technician couldn't send it with Fed Ex the same day as it was closed by the time he got there. He sent it the next day. A violation of the chain of custody but wouldn't effect the test. It would be different if the sample could have been altered. It wasn't.

 

They don't actually know that the balls were underinflated based on the measurements. That's the whole point. Their procedures and methods were flawed and the data collected invalid. Multiple knowledgeable people have gone through the details of all the things the NFL consultants got wrong and why their "facts" aren't actually proven facts. You can't just disagree with that, it's a fundamentally flawed report from the start.

 

[bmags]

The NFL's punishment of Brady was the equivelant of "he lawyered up, must be guilty".

[Jenksismyhero]

They don't actually know that the balls were underinflated based on the measurements. That's the whole point. Their procedures and methods were flawed and the data collected invalid. Multiple knowledgeable people have gone through the details of all the things the NFL consultants got wrong and why their "facts" aren't actually proven facts. You can't just disagree with that, it's a fundamentally flawed report from the start.

 

While true, you still have the evidence that Brady likes his balls deflated and he purposefully got rid of a phone that had potential evidence on it.

 

There's enough circumstantial evidence here IMO to hit him with a fine or suspension. And I think Goodell had the authority to do what he did and how he did it. The 1st court decision was a joke.

 

Having said all that, this whole story is ridiculous and its been ridiculous from day one.

[southsider2k5]

Zach Zaidman ‏@ZachZaidman 1h1 hour ago

 

Ezekiel Elliott tells @dpshow he thinks #Bears are in "love" with him.

 

[Boogua]

Zach Zaidman ‏@ZachZaidman 1h1 hour ago

 

Ezekiel Elliott tells @dpshow he thinks #Bears are in "love" with him.

Please be gone by 11

[shipps]

If the Bears were really in love with the guy would they give enough reason to the guy or to the public so people walk away knowing the Bears want him? I would think they would lay really low in their love for whoever they want for so many reasons to ensure that they will be able to get the guy. It is just a smoke screen. The Bears love someone but its not Elliott.

[ptatc]

They don't actually know that the balls were underinflated based on the measurements. That's the whole point. Their procedures and methods were flawed and the data collected invalid. Multiple knowledgeable people have gone through the details of all the things the NFL consultants got wrong and why their "facts" aren't actually proven facts. You can't just disagree with that, it's a fundamentally flawed report from the start.

In the Wells report 11 of 12 balls were underinflated. They know they were underinflated to some extent. None of the Colts were underinflated. The debate was if they were underinflated enough that it would make a difference because they weren't underinflated by much.

 

I think alot of the debate about the penalty can be summed up by the fact that Godell and the owners are tired of the Patriots getting off easy every time they are caught cheating ie. spygate. They are putting the hammer down to try to stop them from cheating in many very little ways.

[ptatc]

While true, you still have the evidence that Brady likes his balls deflated and he purposefully got rid of a phone that had potential evidence on it.

 

There's enough circumstantial evidence here IMO to hit him with a fine or suspension. And I think Goodell had the authority to do what he did and how he did it. The 1st court decision was a joke.

 

Having said all that, this whole story is ridiculous and its been ridiculous from day one.

Very true but I think it's just that the owners and Godell are tired of the Patriots constantly doing things like this so they are trying to stop it by being overly harsh when they really did nothing for something like spygate. Multiple offenses means the punishment increases even if this offense wouldn't really warrant this punishment.

[StrangeSox]

In the Wells report 11 of 12 balls were underinflated. They know they were underinflated to some extent. None of the Colts were underinflated. The debate was if they were underinflated enough that it would make a difference because they weren't underinflated by much.

 

I think alot of the debate about the penalty can be summed up by the fact that Godell and the owners are tired of the Patriots getting off easy every time they are caught cheating ie. spygate. They are putting the hammer down to try to stop them from cheating in many very little ways.

 

But the Wells report is pretty much garbage. That's the point. The findings in there are meaningless. Multiple people have gone through the analytical and methodological flaws in that report.

 

[Chisoxfn]

If the Bears were really in love with the guy would they give enough reason to the guy or to the public so people walk away knowing the Bears want him? I would think they would lay really low in their love for whoever they want for so many reasons to ensure that they will be able to get the guy. It is just a smoke screen. The Bears love someone but its not Elliott.

I think to a player it is pretty obvious the teams who really like a player and who don't. Don't forget the relationship the Bears coach has with Elliot as well.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I think to a player it is pretty obvious the teams who really like a player and who don't. Don't forget the relationship the Bears coach has with Elliot as well.

 

 

Stan Drayton recruited Elliott to Ohio State when he was like an in-state lock to Mizzou. I'm sure there are defensive players that the Bears would rather have but if Elliott is on the board at #11, I would think that he's probably the pick.

[kevo880]

If the Bears were really in love with the guy would they give enough reason to the guy or to the public so people walk away knowing the Bears want him? I would think they would lay really low in their love for whoever they want for so many reasons to ensure that they will be able to get the guy. It is just a smoke screen. The Bears love someone but its not Elliott.

 

Yeah but this isn't the Bears going public, it's Elliot. I think if he's there at 11 the Bears take him. I think he will be gone by then though.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Our very own Aaron Leming(SoCalSox) stated in his mock draft that he is convinced Charles Leno will be the starting LT next year.

 

You buying or selling that?

 

SoCal, have you heard something or is it just a hunch?

[southsider2k5]

Yeah but this isn't the Bears going public, it's Elliot. I think if he's there at 11 the Bears take him. I think he will be gone by then though.

 

And Elliot seems to have a tendency to talk too much. Remember him calling out the OSU coaching staff last year?

[RockRaines]

And Elliot seems to have a tendency to talk too much. Remember him calling out the OSU coaching staff last year?

He wasnt wrong....

[Y2Jimmy0]

Our very own Aaron Leming(SoCalSox) stated in his mock draft that he is convinced Charles Leno will be the starting LT next year.

 

You buying or selling that?

 

SoCal, have you heard something or is it just a hunch?

 

 

I don't think Aaron comes in this thread. From what we've talked about this offseason though, they really like Leno. They'd take Stanley at #11 and Leno would no longer be the starter but he doesn't think that they are looking to draft a LT. Just kind of depends how the board falls. I personally don't think Conklin is a LT either so it probably doesn't matter in round 1 because I expect Tunsil and Stanley to be gone.

[southsider2k5]

He wasnt wrong....

 

And he may not be wrong here. But it doesn't mean he doesn't have a loose set of lips.

[RockRaines]

And he may not be wrong here. But it doesn't mean he doesn't have a loose set of lips.

I mean, he was asked the question by reporters and he answered it. It doesnt mean anything except he thinks the Bears love him, they may not. We all dont think a RB is good value for the Bears at that pick, and they probably dont either.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I mean, he was asked the question by reporters and he answered it. It doesnt mean anything except he thinks the Bears love him, they may not. We all dont think a RB is good value for the Bears at that pick, and they probably dont either.

 

 

I don't think "A Running Back" is good value at #11. I think Ezekiel Elliott is good value though compared to what will probably be on the board. Could Shaq Lawson or William Jackson be really good in the NFL? Absolutely. I way more confident that Elliott will be awesome though. He's a top 5 player in the class in my opinion.

[RockRaines]

I don't think "A Running Back" is good value at #11. I think Ezekiel Elliott is good value though compared to what will probably be on the board. Could Shaq Lawson or William Jackson be really good in the NFL? Absolutely. I way more confident that Elliott will be awesome though. He's a top 5 player in the class in my opinion.

For the Bears IMO its a bad pick since they already have a guy that is sufficient for their team. They have glaring holes in the secondary and at LB. I dont think Elliott makes it to them anyway.

[Y2Jimmy0]

For the Bears IMO its a bad pick since they already have a guy that is sufficient for their team. They have glaring holes in the secondary and at LB. I dont think Elliott makes it to them anyway.

 

 

I understand what you mean. I just don't like the draft class. There are like 8 really good players. #11 isn't an ideal spot to be picking.

[southsider2k5]

I mean, he was asked the question by reporters and he answered it. It doesnt mean anything except he thinks the Bears love him, they may not. We all dont think a RB is good value for the Bears at that pick, and they probably dont either.

 

It means he doesn't know when to shut up. That doesn't always go over well with management and coaching staffs.

[shipps]

For the Bears IMO its a bad pick since they already have a guy that is sufficient for their team. They have glaring holes in the secondary and at LB. I dont think Elliott makes it to them anyway.

 

Which is exactly why I think the Bears have blown smoke up his ass. I am sure they knew he would talk to someone about the love they are showing him. The Bears are not taking Elliott knowing they have glaring needs on defense and there should be some playmaker talent to choose from in that spot. There is going to be at least three picks wasted on Qb's in the top 10 and there will probably be another couple guys that were unexpectedly taken in the top ten to boot. The Bears are going to have some nice options to pick form no matter how weak this draft may be and they certainly arent going to screw that up and take a running back.