Mike Ilitch dead at 87

[WBWSF]

DeBartolo also wanted to build a new privately funded baseball stadium for the White Sox in the suburbs. It would have been part of a shopping center complex. Still, MLB turned him down as owner of the White Sox. Imagine turning down a owner who wants to build his own stadium for the team he's buying. After being turned down to sell the team to DeBartolo, Veeck then sold the team to JR. Turning down DeBartolos offer to buy the White Sox has turned out to be another bad thing that has happened to the White Sox franchise. The franchise would have been better off with DeBartolo owning the team instead of JR. I'm looking forward to the day when JR sells the team, which I still think and hope is going to be soon.

Edited February 12, 2017 by WBWSF

[Chicago White Sox]

I guess I don't get insane Reinsdorf hate around here. Was he really that bad of an owner for most of his tenure? Without spending a lot of time on this, the Sox had the 4th best record in the 90s & 9th best record in the 00s. I get we didn't have a ton of playoff experiences during that stretch, but does that mean Jerry was a bad owner? I guess I don't see it.

 

Having said that, I do blame him for our struggles during this last half decade. His direction to "go for it" each year without giving the organization the proper resources to win falls on him. His unwavering loyalty to his front office despite extended stretches of underperformance falls on him. I for the most part think Jerry has been a solid owner, but for whatever reason (possibly age), he's really fallen offer as of late. I do think it's finally time for a change in that department, but I don't think having a different owner in charge would have radically change things in the 90s & 00s.

[WBWSF]

JRs ownership:

1) Sportsvision. Simply put, a flop.

2) Turning down a brand new stadium in the South Loop at Roosevelt + Clark built by the City of Chicago. He wanted a new stadium built in Addison on land that he owned.

3) When Addison didn't workout the the South Loop location was off the table and the new stadium was built at its present unpopular location.

4) JR changed the design of the new stadium because he wanted another level of suites. This has ruined the upper deck and ruined the image of the park.

5) 5 Playoff appearances in 36 years.

6) He just traded his 2 best players for prospects for unproven players who probably won't even be on the team this year.

There are a number of other things that I won't go into but still I'm looking forward to a new owner of this franchise. Imagine what the reaction will be if he announced he was selling the team. I don't think there are too many people who would be upset that he was leaving.

 

[ptatc]

That was his son.

 

The sale to the father was turned down for some reasons that were a little nebulous at best.

 

The owners and commissioner Bowie Kuhn felt that DeBartolo had "connections" to underworld characters, had gambling /interests, wasn't actually living in Chicago and couldn't be relied upon in their opinions.

 

In fact the Galbraith family who owned the Pirates and George Steinbrenner had horse racing interests and owned race tracks. DeBartolo said he would move 20% of his business interests to Chicago and promised he would spend a certain amount of time in the city.

 

That fell on deaf ears.

 

Later after the Sox signed Floyd Bannister to what was considered a huge contract for it's time, Steinbrenner publicly said that he "regretted" not voting for DeBartolo.

 

So the dad then used his resources to buy the 49'ers...and win a bunch of Super Bowls.

 

Mark

I worked for deBartolo at one of the local racetracks. It was later purchased by Steinbrenner. All of them were into the gambling scene. The DeBartolo's were the only ones convicted of felony bribery. As long as they win all is forgiven, i guess.

[Two-Gun Pete]

1) Sportsvision.

2) Turning down a brand new stadium in the South Loop at Roosevelt + Clark built by the City of Chicago. He wanted a new stadium built in Addison on land that he owned.

4) JR changed the design of the new stadium because he wanted another level of suites. This has ruined the upper deck and ruined the image of the park.

5) 5 Playoff appearances in 36 years.

6) He just traded his 2 best players for prospects for unproven players

Also:

 

7) 1 playoff appearance in 12 years. Despite this, only Ozzie & Ventura have lost their jobs.

8) Ran a highly popular announcer out of Comiskey (Caray), which simultaneously hurt the Sox, & helped the scrubs.

9) Removed all semi-local MiLB affiliates (south bend ), further hurting the Sox regional presence, & simultaneously helping others build a brand & a presence in the region.

10) Moved all affiliates to a part of the country that will never be SOX fans, all in the name of making it cheaper to operate.

11) Underinvested in draft signing bonuses & in the scouting department, & only increasing his investment when MLB came up with a slotting system.

12) Despite having a running joke of a system in terms of position players, Laumann & Bell & KW have jobs for life.

 

And I'm sure I forgot some as well, but I'll leave it to others to add on.

Edited February 12, 2017 by Two-Gun Pete

[Two-Gun Pete]

I worked for deBartolo at one of the local racetracks. It was later purchased by Steinbrenner. All of them were into the gambling scene. The DeBartolo's were the only ones convicted of felony bribery. As long as they win all is forgiven, i guess.

And JR was involved in colluding to illegally suppress player salaries, so it isn't as though JR is a saint, either. YMMV.

[ptatc]

And JR was involved in colluding to illegally suppress player salaries, so it isn't as though JR is a saint, either. YMMV.

JR isn't a saint he is not by far the best owner in the league but he isn't evil incarnate who has single handedly destroyed the White sox organization either. What he did is not a felony crime.

 

What he has done is try different ways to keep baseball from becoming a "he has the most money wins."

[Lip Man 1]

JR isn't a saint he is not by far the best owner in the league but he isn't evil incarnate who has single handedly destroyed the White sox organization either. What he did is not a felony crime.

 

What he has done is try different ways to keep baseball from becoming a "he has the most money wins."

 

And again it wasn't Ed DeBartolo who committed a felony crime. Just saying.

 

Regarding the most money comment, JR's desire to destroy the MLBPA and impose his idea of a salary structure failed miserably, cost MLB a lot in 94-95 and neutered his own team's chances of potentially getting to the World Series.

 

To me that doesn't sound like a solid business plan. But that's just me.

 

JR like everyone has had an interesting life and controversial run as owner. He's done some things everyone can be proud of (including his substantial charitable contributions) but he's also done some things that make you wonder 'what was he thinking?'

 

This comment when he took over the team turned out to be very prophetic: Jerry Reinsdorf was a “source of intrigue” and in the future could become a “source of controversy.” –From a story by reporter Linda Kay, Chicago Tribune January 30, 1981.

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

 

[Two-Gun Pete]

What he has done is try different ways to keep baseball from becoming a "he has the most money wins."

(Look, I respect you, & I think you're a good poster, but)

 

LOL, wut????

 

Much of JR's actions have been driven by him being self-serving and personally greedy:

 

1. Sportsvision. This was ALL about getting EVERY LAST PENNY out of you & me, without adding not one iota of value to the product or to you or I, the paying customer.

 

2. Everything about New Comiskey Park, from trying to swindle the taxpayer, to trying to get it built on his own land, to threatening to move, to pushing costs to build it onto the hotel industry, to the s***ty design was all about him getting the MOST MONEY for himself.

 

3. Colluding to pay less to players was a way to pay others less, while keeping more for himself.

 

4. Not competing in the international market for decades, and not competing with draft signing bonuses was again, a way to pay others less.

 

5. Moving the MiLB affiliates as close as possible to each other was, again, a way to do things on the cheap.

 

6. The lockout was a scheme intended to pay others less.

 

7. The White Flag Trade was the right thing to do, but his public response to the trade was self-serving.

 

8.Never competing for the top FAs, going back to Albert Belle.

 

9. Keeping an incompetent team president employed, likely because he's either too cheap, or that KW is a livng reminder of JR once having been a younger man. (And JR having taken a personal role in chasing KW as a draftee.)

 

[EDIT] 10. Despite having easily the best lease in north American sports, the cost to attend games is routinely among the most expensive in MLB, as an effort to suppress attendance, thus lowering/eliminating any rent to pay, all while having an inferior product in most seasons.

 

Now, JR's done all of this, and more, all while losing much more than this team has won. We're also expected as taxpayers and paying customers to be OK with his personal greed on the one hand, and at the same time, accept this club operating like a small market team on the other hand.

 

By contrast, at a minimum, the DeBartolos may have been greedy, but at least they passed their thievings onto their paying customers with the 49ers. Neither JR, nor Ilitch deserve praise as owners of their MLB clubs, in all honesty, IMO. And ive yet to see any evidence of JR making this anything other than an exercise to get HIM the most, or to pay others less.

Edited February 12, 2017 by Two-Gun Pete

[Lip Man 1]

(Look, I respect you, & I think you're a good poster, but)

nor Ilitch deserve praise as owners of their MLB clubs, in all honesty, IMO.

 

I disagree with this comment. Ilitch did everything he could to get the Tigers into position to get to and win the World Series. They had a very nice run for five or six years under him. Paid top dollar to get the best players and was aggressive in many facets of trying to get the best talent.

 

Mark

[Dick Allen]

I disagree with this comment. Ilitch did everything he could to get the Tigers into position to get to and win the World Series. They had a very nice run for five or six years under him. Paid top dollar to get the best players and was aggressive in many facets of trying to get the best talent.

 

Mark

So you use spending money on Floyd Bannister against JR and praise Illitch for spending money and falling short,

 

What did you think about Illitch between 1994-2005 when his teams were over 340 games under .500?

 

BTW your guy Roland Hemond was at Soxfest looking and sounding well. I looked it up and he is 87 years old. You would never know it looking at him.

Edited February 12, 2017 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

I guess I don't get insane Reinsdorf hate around here. Was he really that bad of an owner for most of his tenure? Without spending a lot of time on this, the Sox had the 4th best record in the 90s & 9th best record in the 00s. I get we didn't have a ton of playoff experiences during that stretch, but does that mean Jerry was a bad owner? I guess I don't see it.

 

Having said that, I do blame him for our struggles during this last half decade. His direction to "go for it" each year without giving the organization the proper resources to win falls on him. His unwavering loyalty to his front office despite extended stretches of underperformance falls on him. I for the most part think Jerry has been a solid owner, but for whatever reason (possibly age), he's really fallen offer as of late. I do think it's finally time for a change in that department, but I don't think having a different owner in charge would have radically change things in the 90s & 00s.

 

There is always the group of so called fans who can't resist the chance to take a shot at ownership.

[ptatc]

(Look, I respect you, & I think you're a good poster, but)

 

LOL, wut????

 

Much of JR's actions have been driven by him being self-serving and personally greedy:

 

1. Sportsvision. This was ALL about getting EVERY LAST PENNY out of you & me, without adding not one iota of value to the product or to you or I, the paying customer.

 

2. Everything about New Comiskey Park, from trying to swindle the taxpayer, to trying to get it built on his own land, to threatening to move, to pushing costs to build it onto the hotel industry, to the s***ty design was all about him getting the MOST MONEY for himself.

 

3. Colluding to pay less to players was a way to pay others less, while keeping more for himself.

 

4. Not competing in the international market for decades, and not competing with draft signing bonuses was again, a way to pay others less.

 

5. Moving the MiLB affiliates as close as possible to each other was, again, a way to do things on the cheap.

 

6. The lockout was a scheme intended to pay others less.

 

7. The White Flag Trade was the right thing to do, but his public response to the trade was self-serving.

 

8.Never competing for the top FAs, going back to Albert Belle.

 

9. Keeping an incompetent team president employed, likely because he's either too cheap, or that KW is a livng reminder of JR once having been a younger man. (And JR having taken a personal role in chasing KW as a draftee.)

 

[EDIT] 10. Despite having easily the best lease in north American sports, the cost to attend games is routinely among the most expensive in MLB, as an effort to suppress attendance, thus lowering/eliminating any rent to pay, all while having an inferior product in most seasons.

 

Now, JR's done all of this, and more, all while losing much more than this team has won. We're also expected as taxpayers and paying customers to be OK with his personal greed on the one hand, and at the same time, accept this club operating like a small market team on the other hand.

 

By contrast, at a minimum, the DeBartolos may have been greedy, but at least they passed their thievings onto their paying customers with the 49ers. Neither JR, nor Ilitch deserve praise as owners of their MLB clubs, in all honesty, IMO. And ive yet to see any evidence of JR making this anything other than an exercise to get HIM the most, or to pay others less.

Nearly everything you said here makes my point of him working behind the scenes to work on keeping the cost of the game under control so it's not "he who has the most money wins." You see it all as self serving, i see much of it being him working with others owners to control the costs of the game so that all teams have a shot not just the Yankees, red sox and dodgers.

[ptatc]

And again it wasn't Ed DeBartolo who committed a felony crime. Just saying.

 

Regarding the most money comment, JR's desire to destroy the MLBPA and impose his idea of a salary structure failed miserably, cost MLB a lot in 94-95 and neutered his own team's chances of potentially getting to the World Series.

 

To me that doesn't sound like a solid business plan. But that's just me.

 

JR like everyone has had an interesting life and controversial run as owner. He's done some things everyone can be proud of (including his substantial charitable contributions) but he's also done some things that make you wonder 'what was he thinking?'

 

This comment when he took over the team turned out to be very prophetic: Jerry Reinsdorf was a “source of intrigue” and in the future could become a “source of controversy.” –From a story by reporter Linda Kay, Chicago Tribune January 30, 1981.

 

Mark

No, but it was the family and the group together. The kid was just the guy out front. He was in with the kid with the racetracks and everything else, similar to the Cubs and their current group. The kid is out front but they all have a stake and are involved.

[LittleHurt05]

There is always the group of so called fans who can't resist the chance to take a shot at ownership.

 

Now that is just extremely insulting to the majority of this message board.

[southsider2k5]

Now that is just extremely insulting to the majority of this message board.

 

With some of the ridiculous posts I just read, it is entirely appropriate for some. I just watched a thread about someones death turned into a thread about how awful Reinsdorf is.

[ewokpelts]

This isn't true.

 

Ilitch financed at least 60% of the cost to build Comerica. Detroit pitched in $80 million, but will end up being 120 million or so over 30 years.

 

Little Caesars arena is getting quite a bit more, but will also house the Pistons, who I can't find if they are pitching in a dime. The state is financing no more than $450 million for that stadium. The total cost is $750 million, and the Ilitch's are financing another $200 million in development around the stadium.

 

It also moves the pistons from the suburbs back to Detroit.

 

He also moved his business to headquarter in Detroit and spent a lot of money revitalizing Detroit.

 

Yes, he's getting financed, but that's not free.

the city of Detroit, which was in bankruptcy, gave 650 million in tif money to make mike illitch even richer. Because he owns the land around the arena!

 

[BlackSox13]

With some of the ridiculous posts I just read, it is entirely appropriate for some. I just watched a thread about someones death turned into a thread about how awful Reinsdorf is.

Agreed and it's pathetic how a man's passing has turned into Sox front office bashing. Come on Sox fans, show some respect and class for f***s sake.

[Panerista]

I hate owner/JR threads.

 

RIP to what most seem to think was a great man.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Sox-35th

[Thad Bosley]

Also:

 

7) 1 playoff appearance in 12 years. Despite this, only Ozzie & Ventura have lost their jobs.

8) Ran a highly popular announcer out of Comiskey (Caray), which simultaneously hurt the Sox, & helped the scrubs.

9) Removed all semi-local MiLB affiliates (south bend ), further hurting the Sox regional presence, & simultaneously helping others build a brand & a presence in the region.

10) Moved all affiliates to a part of the country that will never be SOX fans, all in the name of making it cheaper to operate.

11) Underinvested in draft signing bonuses & in the scouting department, & only increasing his investment when MLB came up with a slotting system.

12) Despite having a running joke of a system in terms of position players, Laumann & Bell & KW have jobs for life.

 

And I'm sure I forgot some as well, but I'll leave it to others to add on.

13) The "strategic" decision to NOT negotiate with Scott Boras for the past two decades and therefore not compete for the premium talent on the open market he's represented. That has obviously put the Sox in a competitive disadvantage with those teams who remarkably find a way to deal with the man. Again, if Reinsdorf had a whole bunch of success to point to in the past 20 years to support some legitimacy in that decision, it would be one thing. However, the results point towards an entirely different conclusion.