Sox send Frazier/DRob/Kahnle to NY ~ Rutherford/Clarkin/Clippard/Polo

[iamshack]

Seems you just don't like the deal. Might as well not even comment on it anymore. After what happened to Nate Jones I have no idea how you can be an advocate of waiting. That could end up being two pieces that should be traded we lost all value for. And after the A's deal all the Robles talk went out the window.

So we can't comment if we don't love a trade now?

[Jake]

No, he's always flirted with 100. He started throwing strikes.

 

FanGraphs article yesterday included a chart showing a constant increase in velocity from his first MLB appearance in 2014 up to now.

[kwolf68]

Then it's Kahnle for Rutherford. But Kahnle for Rutherford is highway robbery for the Sox. Kahnle was worth something good, but Rutherford is a really good prospect.

 

 

Rutherford at one time was an ELITE prospect, many projected him #1 in his draft year. That said, he does not help the Yankees for a couple years, if he ever does make the show. They got two key relief pieces to add to their pen and got a guy who can hit some homers.

 

The Sox have a very good prospect that still has never played a day above A ball. YES, I think he's got a chance to be good...I really see him in LF eventually. But to me this was a win/win trade ...Sox got future assets, some or all of which won't pan out and the Yankees got immediate help from two bullpen pitchers who have done a good job this year. I suspect they'll continue to do well in NY.

[soxforlife05]

To continue to make this argument completely ignores the point that these were assets that had value on the market. I get that we want to convert them to assets that can help us in the future, but that doesn't mean you just start dumping all your present assets down the drain to get anything you can.

 

You going to lose your s*** if Avi gets dealt too? Another 3 month wonder

[Dick Allen]

FanGraphs article yesterday included a chart showing a constant increase in velocity from his first MLB appearance in 2014 up to now.

Because he had to take some off to get it over the plate. He's always thrown extreme gas.

[RockRaines]

So we can't comment if we don't love a trade now?

f*** no, keep going.

[soxforlife05]

The bolded part nails it. I also find it funny that some guys want to treat it as if we traded Robertson for Clarkin, when in the Nationals thread they wanted guys like Kieboom, Soto, etc for Robertson. Clearly we also did not get good return on Robertson either.

 

I like Rutherford a lot, but still feel like this isn't quite enough. A top 10 guy like Andujar, Adams, Sheffield or Mateo instead of Polo would have made this deal much more palatable.

 

Look at what the A's got for Doolittle and Madson. Going to stop posting in this thread soon because people just don't get it. A's lowered the market with their deal. Proposed Nats deal was dependent on their desperation for multiple relievers.

Edited July 19, 2017 by soxforlife05

[soxforlife05]

So we can't comment if we don't love a trade now?

 

Take your period elsewhere.

[steveno89]

Seems you just don't like the deal. Might as well not even comment on it anymore. After what happened to Nate Jones I have no idea how you can be an advocate of waiting. That could end up being two pieces that should be traded we lost all value for. And after the A's deal all the Robles talk went out the window.

 

http://pinstripedprospects.com/pinstriped-...utherford-23411

 

Scouts really like the makeup, bat speed and swing. Not certain he sticks in center field, but Rutherford could develop into a key player for the White Sox in a few years. If he pans out this trade is a major victory for us.

[Dick Allen]

You going to lose your s*** if Avi gets dealt too? Another 3 month wonder

How many month wonder is Blake Rutherford?

 

How is Kahnle's rise any different from a draft prospect "on helium", except for the fact Kahnle is doing it at the highest level?

[bigruss]

Take your period elsewhere.

Enough, stop this. These posts are not allowed on this site.

[BaconOnAStick]

Even if he is the next Andrew Miller he's gone after next season. And what more could the Sox really have gotten for him next year? Rutherford is now where Torres was last deadline, I doubt they get more for him next deadline than Rutherford.

 

Robertson and Frazier for Clarkin and Polo is a wash.

[bigruss]

Disappointed that we didn't get a better prospect than Polo or an additional lottery ticket piece, but getting Rutherford was huge. I'd rather get a guy like him than 2 B prospects.

 

I understand some of the angst here, but I do think the market is tougher on relievers this year (just look at the Nationals trade) for whatever reason.

[kwolf68]

 

Perfect example of high risk/high reward kid. If he stays healthy and is coached up you may have a legit middle rotation starter with this one. OR, we'll never hear from him after today.

 

14) Ian Clarkin, LHP, Grade B-/C+: Age 21, posted 3.31 ERA in 98 innings in High-A with 72/30 K/BB; missed last six weeks of the season with torn knee meniscus; missed all of 2015 with elbow problems; when healthy shows low-90s fastball, above-average change-up and two different breaking pitches; can dominate when his command is on but injury time has slowed his development to some extent; could get buried in this system if health problems continue. ETA 2019.

[Balta1701]

FanGraphs article yesterday included a chart showing a constant increase in velocity from his first MLB appearance in 2014 up to now.

If you show his "average fastball", then his velocity increses. If you show his game by game results it looks like this. The ranges look like they stack on top of each other so I think his maximum was always just about the same (with the notable exception of him crossing 100 a couple times this year). A couple statistical things to keep in mind - he's thrown a lot more innings this year so he'd be likely to hit 100 more just by random chance, and if previously he was struggling with fastball control he still may have topped out at 98 but 99 but constantly tried "taking something off the fastball to try to throw more strikes".

[soxforlife05]

There is nothing "depreciating" about Kahnle.

 

So if he has a worse second half he's just as valuable? Give me a break. I really hope you were this upset about this Quintana deal.

[GenericUserName]

Do people realize they are doing to Kahnle what we hate other fanbases for doing to their prospects after they are traded? Acting like he sucks and will be a bust even though there have been multiple articles about how Kahnle is one of the best relievers in the game.

[Balta1701]

Even if he is the next Andrew Miller he's gone after next season. And what more could the Sox really have gotten for him next year? Rutherford is now where Torres was last deadline, I doubt they get more for him next deadline than Rutherford.

 

Robertson and Frazier for Clarkin and Polo is a wash.

In the MLB.com list, Rutherford comes in at #30.

 

When he was traded for Miller last year, Frazier was the #15 prospect in the MLB.com list. So maybe with a completely dominant full extra year they could have gotten more than Rutherford...but hey, Rutherford's in A ball, if he has a good 2nd half he'll move up the lists too.

[bmags]

Not to mention they are also up against a 40 man roster crunch in the offseason so they need to unload some guys or risk losing them. Maybe Cashman can't manage to do that and we steal a guy. That might make me like this trade a little more.

 

Our rule 5 next year could look a lot like Pads this year.

[Balta1701]

Do people realize they are doing to Kahnle what we hate other fanbases for doing to their prospects after they are traded? Acting like he sucks and will be a bust even though there have been multiple articles about how Kahnle is one of the best relievers in the game.

"He sucks and will be a bust and was totally worth one of the top 50 prospects in the game".

[GenericUserName]

Perfect example of high risk/high reward kid. If he stays healthy and is coached up you may have a legit middle rotation starter with this one. OR, we'll never hear from him after today.

 

14) Ian Clarkin, LHP, Grade B-/C+: Age 21, posted 3.31 ERA in 98 innings in High-A with 72/30 K/BB; missed last six weeks of the season with torn knee meniscus; missed all of 2015 with elbow problems; when healthy shows low-90s fastball, above-average change-up and two different breaking pitches; can dominate when his command is on but injury time has slowed his development to some extent; could get buried in this system if health problems continue. ETA 2019.

 

From everything I read about him it seems more like high risk/cieling-of-a-#4-starter reward.

[GreenSox]

Nothing about this says "Kenny Williams move". Come off it. The Kenny ship has sailed.

When was that? Seems to be a moving timeline.

And Williams is still the org's top talent evaluator.

[bmags]

Do people realize they are doing to Kahnle what we hate other fanbases for doing to their prospects after they are traded? Acting like he sucks and will be a bust even though there have been multiple articles about how Kahnle is one of the best relievers in the game.

 

Uh nobody thinks that he sucks.

 

But, as a fan, I have seen the sox get screwed by a dominant jesse crain losing his arm, nate jones losing his arm, robertson blowing 8 run leads last year, etc.

 

You would be much better off constantly trading overperforming relief pitchers like Kahnle than trusting that they will continue their performance. I respect that system because it will be right more often than not.

 

You want to bet that Kahnle will be in the "not", and that's a bet I don't want to take. How many relief pitchers have been good for more than 3 years?

[thxfrthmmrs]

Look at what the A's got for Doolittle and Madson. Going to stop posting in this thread soon because people just don't get it. A's lowered the market with their deal. Proposed Nats deal was dependent on their desperation for multiple relievers.

 

Maybe you should stop posting here then. I highly doubt you're smarter than everyone else here, because you seem like ignore the facts on how much value relievers have in trade deadlines or FA market in the past few years. One trade with the A's does not change the market. Neither Doolittle or Madson has closer experience like Robertson, and they aren't as dominant as Kahnle. They should rightfully go for less.

[GenericUserName]

"He sucks and will be a bust and was totally worth one of the top 50 prospects in the game".

 

1. How is that different than the "Haha, we got those idiots. The guy we gave up is a bust and the guy we got is awesome."

 

2. So the value of Robertson and Frazier, both of whome other teams wanted, was Clarkin, Polo, and having to take on Clippard?