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Tony La Russa

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On 10/16/2020 at 9:16 PM, Harold's Leg Lift said:

It is definitely LaRussa's job if he wants it.  

Not it's not. I'm not here calling you a liar but this is simply not accurate. It's not been offered and may never be. 

Edited by macsandz
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Like most Americans, I believe in second chances, forgiving, etc.  I bet there are a few of us here who have had second chances.  But with Hinch, I think it's too soon.  He needs to go at least one year past the mandatory  time in the penalty box.  That gives him time for a sincere Mea Culpa.  Tony should just go away.  Just my opinion.

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22 hours ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

The longer this drags on, the less likely I feel La Russa is going to be the one to get the job. I feel like he would’ve been hired already if he was the guy. I think the rumors surrounding him were just a way to get people more accepting of Hinch’s baggage. They’re probably just stalling until the World Series is over so they can officially “interview” Hinch and make him the manager.

No team is going to name a new manager during the middle of the World Series; the only people who announce things during the World Series are people like A-Rod. The rest of people throughout the game will allow the spotlight to shine on the playoffs before making any off-season moves to draw attention away from the games being played. 

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11 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Bauer, Cc, & Gray talk about Houston cheating

 

I dont know how to embed this, but at 26:20, they start discussing Houston's cheating. But, they also bring up the steroid era.

Surprisingly, all three hate what Houston did more than steroid cheats. If anything, I could see Hinch making it harder for whoever hires him to recruit FAs.

 

That said, I don't want TLR, or Hinch, full stop.

because they're all pitchers and they're idiots. Pitchers could take steroids too so they felt they could level the playing field. 

Steroids clearly is much more beneficial, if you don't believe me go look at the record books. 

Additionally, Bauer is cheating himself so he might want to step off his soap box.

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3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

because they're all pitchers and they're idiots. Pitchers could take steroids too so they felt they could level the playing field. 

Steroids clearly is much more beneficial, if you don't believe me go look at the record books. 

Additionally, Bauer is cheating himself so he might want to step off his soap box.

About the bolded, how do you know this?

 

About the previous video, you clearly didn't watch it. Like it or not, there have been more than just "pitchers and idiots" that hate/hated what Houston did.

For Example

Steroids were so widespread that pretty much every team had someone who used. What Houston and Boston did was (as far as we know) more isolated to those teams. What added insult to injury was AJ Hinch stupidly running his piehole when the yankmees caught them.

As you know, players remember this sort of shit-talk and cheating.

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15 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

About the bolded, how do you know this?

 

About the previous video, you clearly didn't watch it. Like it or not, there have been more than just "pitchers and idiots" that hate/hated what Houston did.

For Example

Steroids were so widespread that pretty much every team had someone who used. What Houston and Boston did was (as far as we know) more isolated to those teams. What added insult to injury was AJ Hinch stupidly running his piehole when the yankmees caught them.

As you know, players remember this sort of shit-talk and cheating.

Because Bauer told us himself last year. He has increased his spin rate this year significantly and he told us last year the only way to do that was with a foreign substance... and he said if no one is going to enforce it... 

Steroids clearly are significantly more beneficial. Record books were rewritten because of steroids. People have been stealing signs for eons and the Astros weren't the only team doing this. They were wrong, they got caught, and they should have faced stricter punishment but it wasn't more beneficial to the AStros than the entire team using steroids for example. And i think the benefit has been overplayed by guys like Bauer because pitchers love being victims.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run

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8 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

 

Steroids clearly are significantly more beneficial. 

You're arguing the wrong thing. No-one is arguing what is more beneficial.

What I am showing is that THE PLAYERS think that Houston's cheating is the greater crime. And THE PLAYERS hate the video cheating more. And no, it isn't just "pitchers and idiots" that think this.

Whether its steroids or video that is more beneficial is entirely immaterial. It is what potential future employees think that matters.

Were the SOX to hire Hinch, it could impede FA efforts, and make the org one that isn't a preferred destination for players as a result.

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Just now, Two-Gun Pete said:

 

 

You're arguing the wrong thing. No-one is arguing what is more beneficial.

What I am showing is that THE PLAYERS think that Houston's cheating is the greater crime. And THE PLAYERS hate the video cheating more. And no, it isn't just "pitchers and idiots" that think this.

Whether its steroids or video that is more beneficial is entirely immaterial. It is what potential future employees think that matters.

Were the SOX to hire Hinch, it could impede FA efforts, and make the org one that isn't a preferred destination for players as a result.

And I think that's complete short sighted nonsense. It's clearly not a greater crime.

Hiring Hinch wouldn't impede on anything. No one is saying they would have signed with the Sox, but Hinch is there. 

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5 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

 

 

You're arguing the wrong thing. No-one is arguing what is more beneficial.

What I am showing is that THE PLAYERS think that Houston's cheating is the greater crime. And THE PLAYERS hate the video cheating more. And no, it isn't just "pitchers and idiots" that think this.

Whether its steroids or video that is more beneficial is entirely immaterial. It is what potential future employees think that matters.

Were the SOX to hire Hinch, it could impede FA efforts, and make the org one that isn't a preferred destination for players as a result.

Bochy...Farrell...Alomar...Jirschele and others have none of this baggage.

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5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

And I think that's complete short sighted nonsense. It's clearly not a greater crime.

Hiring Hinch wouldn't impede on anything. No one is saying they would have signed with the Sox, but Hinch is there. 

Again, no one is arguing what is the greater crime.

 

I am arguing (with links/video evidence) that the players dislike video cheating more than  steroids. Do you have anything that shows the opposite?

 

And yes, given the evidence, we can reasonably conclude that this issue can contribute to impeding recruitment efforts. All things being equal, players don't like to go to teams with personnel they don't like.

 

Do you have any evidence that players dislike steroids more than video cheating? I'm entirely open to changing my view, if you do.

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2 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Again, no one is arguing what is the greater crime.

 

I am arguing (with links/video evidence) that the players dislike video cheating more than  steroids. Do you have anything that shows the opposite?

 

And yes, given the evidence, we can reasonably conclude that this issue can contribute to impeding recruitment efforts. All things being equal, players don't like to go to teams with personnel they don't like.

 

Do you have any evidence that players dislike steroids more than video cheating? I'm entirely open to changing my view, if you do.

This is just an example of recency bias. Players who didn't cheat hated steroids more than anything; it literally cost players jobs and opportunities if they weren't willing to use as well. 

Stealing signs offends the other team more, nothing more to it honestly. 

And no player is going to sign for less money just to not have AJ Hinch be there coach. That's just illogical. Bauer would sign here tomorrow if they offered him the most money and Hinch was in charge.

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47 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

This is just an example of recency bias. Players who didn't cheat hated steroids more than anything; it literally cost players jobs and opportunities if they weren't willing to use as well. 

Stealing signs offends the other team more, nothing more to it honestly. 

And no player is going to sign for less money just to not have AJ Hinch be there coach. That's just illogical. Bauer would sign here tomorrow if they offered him the most money and Hinch was in charge.

With respect to the bolded, the same is true for players that were on teams that didn't use video to cheat. Would Altuve have won the MVP without video, for example? I dunno, but he sucked a horses ass without it in the regular season. Would many of Houston's pitchers do as well if they weren't regularly pitching with an illegally-obtained lead? We don't know.

Would Hinch be as good without cheating?  Again, we don't know. But probably not.

 

With respect to the underlined, you're arguing against yourself. Because players (not just "pitchers and idiots") are on record as hating the video cheating more, it will make it harder/more expensive to attract FA. Not easier/cheaper if Hinch was THEIR coach, as you've posted here.

You've shown no evidence that players dislike steroids more than video cheating. (Beyond your own opinion. ) I've shown the opposite, with links and evidence.

 

Therefore, we can reasonably conclude that the video cheating offends players more. Amd that it could add an additional barrier to recruitment if Hinch were here.

 

Edited by Two-Gun Pete

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5 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

With respect to the bolded, the same is true for players that were on teams that didn't use video to cheat. Would Altuve have won the MVP without video, for example? I dunno, but he sucked a horses ass without it in the regular season. Would many of Houston's pitchers do as well if they weren't regularly pitching with an illegally-obtained lead? We don't know.

Would Hinch be as good without cheating?  Again, we don't know. But probably not.

 

With respect to the underlined, you're arguing against yourself. Because players (not just "pitchers and idiots") are on record as hating the video cheating more, it will make it harder/more expensive to attract FA. Not easier/cheaper if Hinch was THEIR coach, as you've posted here.

You've shown no evidence that players dislike steroids more than video cheating. (Beyond your own opinion. ) I've shown the opposite, with links and evidence.

 

Therefore, we can reasonably conclude that the video cheating offends players more. Amd that it could add an additional barrier to recruitment if Hinch were here.

 

Again, players today are on record as hating it more because it is effecting them directly; it is the definition of recency bias. Steroids almost destroyed the game. Sign stealing is still widely used; it was how they went about it that people felt was wrong.

As per your bolded part; no idea what you're talking about. Altuve has been a star for years.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run

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3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Again, players today are on record as hating it more because it is effecting them directly; it is the definition of recency bias. Steroids almost destroyed the game. Sign stealing is still widely used; it was how they went about it that people felt was wrong.

As per your bolded part; no idea what you're talking about. Altuve has been a star for years.

Cool. Then show us something where a player or group of players so states that they hate steroids more than video cheating. Because its their opinions and preferences that influence whether or not they end up coming to a team with a cheating manager.

I've shown the opposite more than once. You've shown nothing. Find us a link. A podcast. A video. A story. Anything, and that would be evidence to support your opinion.

 

With respect to Altuve, this was the first known "clean" season he's played in. We can't trust all of the fraudulently-obtained prior numbers, because we know they weren't real. We do know that he sucked this season, and we know that they didn't commit the same fraud this year. Therefore, we can conclude that he may very well suck at baseball without cheating. 

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1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

This is just an example of recency bias. Players who didn't cheat hated steroids more than anything; it literally cost players jobs and opportunities if they weren't willing to use as well. 

Stealing signs offends the other team more, nothing more to it honestly. 

And no player is going to sign for less money just to not have AJ Hinch be there coach. That's just illogical. Bauer would sign here tomorrow if they offered him the most money and Hinch was in charge.

That’s not true at all.  
 

We just saw Zach Wheeler sign for less money last year for reasons that were more important to him than money. 

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14 minutes ago, Thad Bosley said:

That’s not true at all.  
 

We just saw Zach Wheeler sign for less money last year for reasons that were more important to him than money. 

It had nothing to do with a head coach; this isn't college sports. When you're signing a long term deal the odds the coach is there at the end is near zero. 

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17 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Cool. Then show us something where a player or group of players so states that they hate steroids more than video cheating. Because its their opinions and preferences that influence whether or not they end up coming to a team with a cheating manager.

I've shown the opposite more than once. You've shown nothing. Find us a link. A podcast. A video. A story. Anything, and that would be evidence to support your opinion.

 

With respect to Altuve, this was the first known "clean" season he's played in. We can't trust all of the fraudulently-obtained prior numbers, because we know they weren't real. We do know that he sucked this season, and we know that they didn't commit the same fraud this year. Therefore, we can conclude that he may very well suck at baseball without cheating. 

This is complete nonsense. 

You are just making things up now. There is absolutely nothing that says the Astros cheated from 2011-2019. The entire front office and coaching staff wasn't even in place until 2015. Altuve has been a great player well before cheating. 

And I don't need to show you group of players saying they hate steroids more. Every single record was nearly shit on because of steroids. I don't care what Trevor Bauer has to say on what is worse. He cried non stop about the Astros using substances on the ball to increase spin and then chose to do it himself. 

I have no idea how much you think this effects outcomes, but I know you it's far more than it actually does.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run

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8 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

This is complete nonsense. 

You are just making things up now. There is absolutely nothing that says the Astros cheated from 2011-2019. The entire front office and coaching staff wasn't even in place until 2015. Altuve has been a great player well before cheating. 

And I don't need to show you group of players saying they hate steroids more. Every single record was nearly shit on because of steroids. I don't care what Trevor Bauer has to say on what is worse. He cried non stop about the Astros using substances on the ball to increase spin and then chose to do it himself. 

I have no idea how much you think this effects outcomes, but I know you it's far more than it actually does.

Wait, let me go change my shirt while you find a link.

Or a video.

Or a story.

Or anything else, beyond your opinion. 

Because, no one is arguing which is worse. Im showing (with links) that the players think that video cheating is worse. You've shown nothing.

 

If you want to discuss which is worse (steroids or video cheating), feel free to start a topic elsewhere. This thread is/was about who may be the best man to help this team win now. And part of that is the ability to attract FA; Hinch may well hurt those efforts.

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The thing that grates at me about Hinch and company is that if he or someone else that enabled the cheating to take place, there will always be a stench about it on the present team and a wonder about are they cheating once again. I'd rather not have to have to listen to the questions being asked of these guys. It is the same crap sort of that we went through with the roid users which was much more serious and ruined baseball for me for a pretty long time. 

I don't know if anyone of you guys experienced the use of roids funneling down to the younger players but let me tell you that it was really scary not just with the roids and HGH but also the so-called "additives" that these sports medicine jerks were peddling to young high school kids. My youngest son who was a terrific soccer player came home one day with a huge jar of somekind of powder. Tried to hide it from me. I asked him what it was and he told me that it was to make him bigger and stronger, no less. He bought the damned thing for like $30 no less. Well, he took the thing back and got his money back. I told him that whatever he was going to do athletically was going to come naturally.

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50 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Wait, let me go change my shirt while you find a link.

Or a video.

Or a story.

Or anything else, beyond your opinion. 

Because, no one is arguing which is worse. Im showing (with links) that the players think that video cheating is worse. You've shown nothing.

 

If you want to discuss which is worse (steroids or video cheating), feel free to start a topic elsewhere. This thread is/was about who may be the best man to help this team win now. And part of that is the ability to attract FA; Hinch may well hurt those efforts.

I honestly don't think people understand that when they make claims, the onus is on them to substantiate it. 

You have strawman-ed this conversation from; players were upset that the Astros cheated, to FA wouldn't sign with the Sox because Hinch was the manager of those Astros. 

You're asking me to present a video to dispute your claim, but you've presented zero evidence of a single player mentioning Hinch being a detterent to signing. So the person who is making generalization and assumptions sans any evidence is not me, it is you my friend.

You also insinuated that Altuve has never not cheated, despite all the evidence you point to and use to discredit the Astros and Hinch starting in 2017 and not 2011.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run

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10 hours ago, macsandz said:

Not it's not. I'm not here calling you a liar but this is simply not accurate. It's not been offered and may never be. 

Thanks for the optimism bucket. 

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Regarding the scandal-ridden former Astros manager ... Think of this as the real world. Let's say a company that is not desperate to hire people got the resume of AJ Hinch right now. Sorry but it would be tossed in the circular file or at best the "let's wait 10 years and see what comes of this person" file.

There are so many candidates out there it's absolutely wrong to hire this guy who is tied to a severe scandal in baseball. Sox will go from the loveable young-uns to the bad guys in the eyes of the baseball world. You know how many Astros got thrown at this year even with no fans in stands?? I don't understand how ANYBODY could support Jerry paying Hinch at this time in history.

My choices, with the realization Oz has no chance cause of his mouth: Tony baby No. 1 (Hall of Famer). 2.) Bochy strong second (no brainer). 3. Steve Stone (don't laugh, though I'd miss him on MLB broadcasts).  4. Jim Leyland (if healthy). Just my takes.

I don't want Alex Cora or AJP. AJP has no experience. But it would be a White Sox move.

p.s. You know how bad that Astros scandal was? Fathom could slug a double if he knew what PITCH WAS COMING for gosh sakes. Maybe Caulfield as well!!

Edited by greg775
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Greg with the unsurprising list of name guys 😂 

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5 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Greg with the unsurprising list of name guys 😂 

Still no match for Caulfield.

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12 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Greg with the unsurprising list of name guys 😂 

No Frank Thomas mention, so I am taking greg points off.

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