I thought We Were Stockpiling Talent In The Minors??? To Avoid This Problem

[Soxsi75]

10 minutes ago, daggins said:

The Sox seem to be quite poor at drafting and developing position players, which is why most of our big "hits" in that area have been pitchers and international players that are almost MLB ready on signing. That, combined with an approach to free agency that I will charitably call "frugal", has put us in the situation we find ourselves.

Perfectly put. Which, I'm afraid to say, makes us a poor organization. 

[Flash]

43 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

This happens when they repeatedly draft corners instead of middles.  

Prescient. Not to cite Cubs as lone example but after drafting Ed Howard (SS), they sent Darvish to Padres for a package of tooled-up, middle of the field teenagers.

[Chicago White Sox]

22 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

See Sheets, Collins, Burger, Walker, etc. 

Sorry, meant HS bats.  We’ve started taking way more HS kids, but we still haven’t used a 1st round pick on a HS kid since Hawkins.  Can’t keep playing it safe at the top and hope to add high impact talent up the middle, especially when you’re going to be drafting in 20’s hopefully.  We should be taking the Carter Kieboom’s of the world in the late 1st and not the Zack Burdi’s.

[Chicago White Sox]

26 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

I think Rutherford is probably a bust, which is too bad.  The pandemic did not help. Hard to say much about Sheets, Adolfo, Gonzalez, etc. when they didn’t play last year.  I think there’s a solid chance one of them steps up by the middle of the year to help out.  Maybe it’s Cespedes.  What is clear is that the trades brought in way better talent than the high draft picks during the rebuild, except for Rutherford.

The one real failure of the rebuild was drafting a bunch corner college bats with reasonably high picks because they were “safe / advanced hitters” and then failing to develop them.  Hopefully, we are starting to rectify that a bit with Collins & Sheets as I previously mentioned, but there was a lot of potential impact talent at the HS level we passed on early in the rebuild and it never made much sense to me.

[fathom]

Maybe don’t have a minor league manager that platoons players and is obsessed with  bunting.  Thankfully it seems things are improving with player development, but a lot of damage was done.

[NWINFan]

2021 will give us a more complete picture of how this rebuild is finally progressing. Some young players have to develop, and the organization will still have to make some moves even if the team has a winning season. We will see if the team is really serious about winning.

[chitownsportsfan]

2 hours ago, yesterday333 said:

Most teams when they have an injury to a top player have to go outside their org to get realistic replacements. Not very many teams have major league starters ready to contribute to a playoff team just sitting in the minors. We have Luery and Engel we is pretty decent for back up OFs.

Hopefully you broke up the circle jerk without too much hassle.  JFC this is a miserable bunch.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, fathom said:

Maybe don’t have a minor league manager that platoons players and is obsessed with  bunting.  Thankfully it seems things are improving with player development, but a lot of damage was done.

Thank god that scumbag is long gone

[turnin' two]

3 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

This happens when they repeatedly draft corners instead of middles.  

The draft that still kills me is Burger and Sheets.  Like why take 2 guys that profile to be so similar.  It was ridiculous.

[turnin' two]

3 hours ago, daggins said:

The Sox seem to be quite poor at drafting and developing position players, which is why most of our big "hits" in that area have been pitchers and international players that are almost MLB ready on signing. That, combined with an approach to free agency that I will charitably call "frugal", has put us in the situation we find ourselves.

Well, hopefully that is changing.  This year should feature 3 (maybe 4) prominently with TA, Madrigal, Vaughn and maybe even Collins. And while they didn't draft Robert, do get credit for development here?  

[michelangelosmonkey]

Honestly did no one notice the whole farm system was shut down in 2020 because of Covid?  We had a bunch of interesting prospects that looked great in 2018...then they had a hard time transitioning to Birmingham...as many many do...with hopes for them catching up in 2020 suddenly the world changed.  I think this is a very big year for the Sox farm teams...maybe they are all busts but let's be patient. 

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Honestly did no one notice the whole farm system was shut down in 2020 because of Covid?  We had a bunch of interesting prospects that looked great in 2018...then they had a hard time transitioning to Birmingham...as many many do...with hopes for them catching up in 2020 suddenly the world changed.  I think this is a very big year for the Sox farm teams...maybe they are all busts but let's be patient. 

How is that unique for the White Sox, though?  If anything, coaching and player development was even more critical in that particular environment.   Why do other organizations maintain or sustain their high/er rankings?

[SpringfieldFan]

So despite what they have done over the last few years - they suck, is that it?

Really, before the rebuild they had a couple of marketable players in Chicago plus a couple hundred worthless bodies in minor league uniforms. I'm not sure how you do a rebuild with those resources and get top tier prospects plus depth from top to bottom in three or four years. Even if they opened up the checkbook they would have what? I'm guessing it would look like what they have now plus maybe Machado. Whoopie.

[Vulture]

4 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

The Padres have Nola, Kim, Profar, Jake C. , CJ Abrams (top ten MiLB prospect overall) and Tatis for up the middle or OF/C/1B.

They were able to trade depth in Urias for another up the middle piece in Grisham. 

We have Anderson, Madrigal and Leury.  Mendick is just a fringe player. Not unlike Yolmer Sanchez. 

Mendick’s a fringe player, who has 1.1 WAR in only 150 PA.

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, SpringfieldFan said:

So despite what they have done over the last few years - they suck, is that it?

Really, before the rebuild they had a couple of marketable players in Chicago plus a couple hundred worthless bodies in minor league uniforms. I'm not sure how you do a rebuild with those resources and get top tier prospects plus depth from top to bottom in three or four years. Even if they opened up the checkbook they would have what? I'm guessing it would look like what they have now plus maybe Machado. Whoopie.

Machado’s bat and glove replacing Jimenez in the lineup right now at least keeps them out of the Wild Card game.

You did notice he was a Top NL MVP candidate, right?

 

If they opened up the checkbook, they’d now have someone like Jackie Bradley, Jr. in LF, and one more quality starting pitcher for starting rotation insurance.  They would have a better alternative at catcher than Lucroy, for example.  They would have drafted Kelenic instead of Madrigal, saving the money they spent on Eaton.

[caulfield12]

8 minutes ago, Vulture said:

Mendick’s a fringe player, who has 1.1 WAR in only 150 PA.

0.5

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/danny-mendick/18889/stats?position=2B
 

That’s probably why nobody has suggested him for LF, at least not yet.  Of course, going by fWAR, Jimenez profiles as a 2.5-3 player due to his defensive shortcomings, but certainly not irreplaceable.  Do younreally believe Mendick would even give you 2, though, completely out of position?

Edited March 27, 2021 by caulfield12

[Vulture]

Why would he be playing completely out of position? You were talking about Sox middle infield depth. Considering Mendick has the best glove in the group, some power and good speed, he’s actually pretty good for the fourth mid infielder on the depth chart as indicated by 1.1 WAR in limited action.

[caulfield12]

22 minutes ago, Vulture said:

Why would he be playing completely out of position? You were talking about Sox middle infield depth. Considering Mendick has the best glove in the group, some power and good speed, he’s actually pretty good for the fourth mid infielder on the depth chart as indicated by 1.1 WAR in limited action.

Well, he has played LF a total of 9 games during his collegiate and professional (Charlotte) career, so well ahead of Vaughn.

And fangraphs’ more reliable 0.5 shows you how high the variance is going to be based on a grand total of 150 at bats.

Edited March 27, 2021 by caulfield12

[Vulture]

Fangraphs isn’t more reliable. They’re projecting NL teams to each get 294 PA from designated hitter, for example. 294 PA in ten inter league games at AL parks. If they can’t even get the most simple projection right...

Not sure why you keep bringing up left field in relation to mendick

Edited March 27, 2021 by Vulture

[SpringfieldFan]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Machado’s bat and glove replacing Jimenez in the lineup right now at least keeps them out of the Wild Card game.

You did notice he was a Top NL MVP candidate, right?

 

If they opened up the checkbook, they’d now have someone like Jackie Bradley, Jr. in LF, and one more quality starting pitcher for starting rotation insurance.  They would have a better alternative at catcher than Lucroy, for example.  They would have drafted Kelenic instead of Madrigal, saving the money they spent on Eaton.

Is this about spending money for great pieces here and there or about building depth? If it's about spending the $, what's their payroll compared to the rest of the teams? Unless it's lower tier, I don't think you can say the org sucks simply by virtue of being stingy.

The other argument is about not building depth. Several comments have said how poor the team is with their organizational depth and that is why they have no replacements for Eloy, etc. How do you rebuild all that in a couple years? 

I am impressed with what they have managed to accomplish with the dearth of resources they had just a few years ago. To still have the attitude that they are still so awful would be a miserable way for me to live as a fan. 

[Dominikk85]

The development of the outfielders outside of Eloy and Robert certainly has been a disappointment. 2-3 years ago there was nice depth with Adolfo, basabe, Rutherford, Gonzalez and obviously Robert and Eloy but only the two made it. 

I would have hoped at least one had stepped up. 

Sox development of hitters outside the top guys hasn't been so great. The top guys developed nicely but among those 40 to 45 FV guys none really outperformed expectations at the plate with the exception of yermin who unfortunately is a DH. 

[caulfield12]

12 minutes ago, SpringfieldFan said:

Is this about spending money for great pieces here and there or about building depth? If it's about spending the $, what's their payroll compared to the rest of the teams? Unless it's lower tier, I don't think you can say the org sucks simply by virtue of being stingy.

The other argument is about not building depth. Several comments have said how poor the team is with their organizational depth and that is why they have no replacements for Eloy, etc. How do you rebuild all that in a couple years? 

I am impressed with what they have managed to accomplish with the dearth of resources they had just a few years ago. To still have the attitude that they are still so awful would be a miserable way for me to live as a fan. 

This argument will go back and forth all year.

Nobody said they are awful as a team.  Maybe awful at managing some of their talent to maximize their value at times.

We have been rebuilding since the second half of 2016.

You must have a lot of patience.   Being content with second or third isn’t much fun, either.  It’s hard to watch the Padres doing everything to beat the Dodgers for the division when our best case scenario is likely fixing things at the trade deadline.
 

And they’re barely running a league average payroll in the competitive window which was to be marked by “unprecedented financial flexibility” to quote none other than Rick Hahn. 

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by caulfield12

[ScootsMcGoots]

6 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

This happens when they repeatedly draft corners instead of middles.  

One of the fallacies of the "you always draft the best player first" mentality.

[ScootsMcGoots]

The season hasn't even started yet and people are jumping ship 🤣🤣🤣 can't say I'm surprised

[SpringfieldFan]

10 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

This argument will go back and forth all year.

Nobody said they are awful as a team.  Maybe awful at managing some of their talent to maximize their value at times.

We have been rebuilding since the second half of 2016.

You must have a lot of patience.   Being content with second or third isn’t much fun, either.  It’s hard to watch the Padres doing everything to beat the Dodgers for the division when our best case scenario is likely fixing things at the trade deadline.
 

And they’re barely running a league average payroll in the competitive window which was to be marked by “unprecedented financial flexibility” to quote none other than Rick Hahn. 

 

Yeah, I will admit I'm envious of the Padres...