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Official Ozzie/Mariotti Thread

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QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 04:29 PM)
Mariotti on Arount the Horn says the gay community is "calling for Guillen's head."

 

Somehow I doubt this. Often when people speak in generalities they're wrong.

 

I can't speak for the gay communtiy, but can anyone honestly imagine people absolutely livid and shaking their fists at the thought of Guillen calling Mariotti a ***? People are sensible. Most are looking at Guillen and realizing he's an ignorant boob. I'm confident Guillen will do something with the gay community to help his image.

 

As much of a *** as he is, I'm quite sure that Fairyotti is in close contact with the leaders of the gay community.

 

QUOTE(MHizzle85 @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 04:06 PM)
this is really really lame, commisioner bud can act on some comments within days, but is still lookin for a way to discipline people for steroid use? This further adds to my hate of Bud Selig...what. a. f***in. bum.

 

 

Agreed. What a f***ing hypocrite he is. Yet another example of symbolism over substance.

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So Jay is saying that gays are all violent murderers?

See Jay, it's not nice to blow things out of proportion is it?

 

Great line, Los. Awesome. Somebody should call Mariotti on this.

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QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 05:08 PM)
Sensitivity training?

 

I had to take anger management classes and they didn't do me any f***ing good.

 

 

lol

 

a company i worked at decided to have all employees get sensitivity training (just to cover their own ass if someone ever wanted to sue). it was hilarious, best class i've ever taken. i think it was supposed to be serious though... i guess i didn't learn anyting cause i'm not very sensitive.

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QUOTE(hi8is @ Jun 23, 2006 -> 01:25 AM)
this is the funniest article ive seen thus far:

Ozzie is Homo-Phobic

f*** this guy. He and all of his other "journalist" at ESPN can kiss my ass. They only are writtng this s*** just because Mariotti is a regualr contributor to their network. All they are doing is trying to support Jay for a reason God only knows

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Just watched Ozzie's reaction to his sentence from MLB regarding his Fairyotti comments........

 

 

"I no gon baa off him"

 

 

"I apologize to da community but if he thin I apologize to him?!?! PFFFFT!"

 

 

 

PURE f***ING GOLD RIGHT THERE

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The media is hypocritical in these issues where people say insensitive things.

Oz would be fired if he was a white coach.

And I'm not saying Oz should be fired for this. No way. I think the

"sensitivity training" is probably good for Oz.

But let's face facts. The media would demand and the coach would be

fired if he was white.

It's that simple.

That said, Oz is the best. I love his demeanor and candidness.

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Wow, someone in the media finally held Mariotti accountable for his actions. Big kudos to Rick Morrisey!

 

The right way: You write it, you show up

 

The right way: You write it, you show up

Rick Morrissey

In the wake of the news

 

June 23, 2006

 

Sometimes I get the feeling that what I do for a living is a complete mystery to people.

 

Mostly I get this feeling when readers tell me to stick to the facts and stop introducing opinion into my columns.

 

This is like telling Mike Ditka to stop with the red meat already.

 

So it was an uphill battle even before Ozzie Guillen and Jay Mariotti started debating the professional obligations of a columnist.

 

The other day, the White Sox manager called the Sun-Times sports columnist a derogatory term for a homosexual, which is both inexcusable and indefensible, especially given Guillen's history.

 

In front of reporters last year, Guillen called out to a friend of his, "Hey, everybody, this guy's a homosexual! He's a child molester!" I took him to task in a column but cut him some slack because he comes from a different country, Venezuela, and culture. But once is enough.

 

What has spun out of the sludge-slinging between a manager and a member of the media is a discussion of how much accountability a columnist should have for what he or she writes. Actually, there really isn't much of a discussion in the journalistic community. Most writers agree the honorable thing is to face the people you criticize.

 

There is, however, much confusion among the public about what we do. So this amounts to an opportunity.

 

Guillen considers Mariotti a coward for not backing up his often-angry columns with even an occasional appearance in the Sox's clubhouse. Mariotti doesn't believe it's his duty as a columnist to meet and greet the people he has ripped.

 

Now I'm as likely to win a Pulitzer Prize as Guillen is of becoming the honorary chairman of the Gay Games in Chicago, but I do know one thing:

 

If you're a sports columnist, you show up in the clubhouse to face the music. It's a matter of fairness.

 

Let's say I criticize Sox catcher A.J. Pierzynski for something he did in a game. And let's say I do it in the Sunday Tribune, which has a circulation of about 960,000.

 

Isn't it reasonable for Pierzynski to have an opportunity to lash out at me in front of media and teammates in the clubhouse if I've treated him similarly in print? It seems pretty straightforward to me. It's what I was taught to do. It's what nearly all of the columnists in the country do. The honorable thing.

 

Look, it's not always fun walking into a locker room. Sometimes it's uncomfortable. But it comes with the territory of being a columnist.

 

Showing up also makes for a better columnist. Anybody can have an opinion. That's the beauty of being a walking, talking human being. But asking questions of players, managers and coaches helps give a columnist an informed opinion. It doesn't mean you're being co-opted by the people you're dealing with, not if you have an ounce of integrity. It means you're being thorough and professional. And you just might learn a thing or two.

 

One of the best and worst things that has happened to our society is the blog—best because everyone can have his say, not just us so-called experts; worst because everyone can say anything with almost no accountability.

 

I can't tell you how many ugly, hate-filled e-mails I've received from people who disagreed with something I wrote.

 

And I would bet that most of the e-mailers wouldn't be quite so nasty if they were talking with me face to face.

 

But something is happening in our society, and the blog is a reflection of it. So is TV. So is radio. So, for that matter, is Mavericks owner Mark Cuban.

 

Civility is going bye-bye. Public discussion is a bloody fistfight. And it's OK to be vapid as long as you're loud. Take a bow for that, Mr. Cuban.

 

I'll give Mariotti this: Whether he realizes it or not, he might have been the nation's first blogger, without actually writing one.

 

He has led the way by not leading the way to the locker room or the clubhouse. He writes what he wants without ever talking to a soul.

 

The only difference is he travels often to events, unlike bloggers, many of whom sit in their underwear all day and update, update, update.

 

But it's not the way most columnists do their jobs. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

 

Guillen spent part of Thursday night ripping Mariotti again.

 

I should know.

 

I was in the Sox's dugout, before the game. It was another day at the office for a lot of us.

 

rmorrissey@tribune.com

 

Copyright © 2006, The Chicago Tribune

Edited by KevHead0881

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Two seasons ago I saw Guillen take a seat on the dugout bench, only to discover he was sitting on a local newspaper, with the page opened to the mug shot of a female columnist. Guillen cracked wise about the location of his rear end and her mug shot. I remember wincing. There were a few forced chuckles, but nobody wrote about it. Hey, it was Ozzie being Ozzie.

 

Cheap shot by Gene Woj of ESPN to not have the guts to write it at the time, but now write

it when the heat is on Oz.

 

Great column by the Trib calling out Mariotti. Perfect.

The Trib and Southtown and Couch columns are very good in my opinion.

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QUOTE(soxman352000 @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 09:56 PM)
f*** this guy. He and all of his other "journalist" at ESPN can kiss my ass. They only are writtng this s*** just because Mariotti is a regualr contributor to their network. All they are doing is trying to support Jay for a reason God only knows

 

The yahoo sports one where the guy goes to a Chicago gay sports bar was kinda funny too...

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QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Jun 23, 2006 -> 03:57 AM)
The yahoo sports one where the guy goes to a Chicago gay sports bar was kinda funny too...

link? :bang

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QUOTE(GoRowand33 @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 11:10 PM)
awesome article :cheers

 

Yep, Morrissey occasionally pisses me off (the comments comparing a Sox to Cubs WS parade come to mind), but for the most part, he's a solid columnist and I'm glad he is back from the cancer treatment so quickly.

Edited by whitesoxfan101

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i wrote an email to mariotti last october when the sox exploded into the world series... suprisingly, i never got a reply...

 

"from: trevor caesar in castaic, calif.

 

jay, i just wanted to send you a quick note to let you know how entertaining your articles and segments on around the horn have been. at the beginning of spring training, i just thought you were a tool. then, the all star break came and passed. now, we find ourselves in october and believe it or not, i don't think your a tool any longer. now i know your a tool.

 

no worries thou, i'm a tool just as much as you are and i envy that you get paid for it while i sit here at home emailing you.

 

oh wait, i almost forgot the white sox are in the series. that's right, i have no reason to be down about baseball or its clown columnist.

 

keep on writing those wonderful articles of enlightenment mariotti... keep on sacrificing logic and reason for the all-mighty dollar.

 

thank you kindy,

a friend on the west coast"

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Here's what I wrote in my blog, which you can reach at http://blakebaumgartner.blogspot.com.

 

"White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen crossed the line when he referred to Chicago Sun-Times columnist Jay Mariotti as a "***." In a society dominated by political correctness, Guillen should of known better. There are certain things you just can't say. Even as a die-hard White Sox fan, I'm smart enough to know Guillen was wrong to use that slur to describe Mariotti.

 

Guillen is the latest White Sox employee to take their shots at the embattled and controversial Mariotti. White Sox chairman Jerry Reinsdorf and White Sox broadcaster Ken "Hawk" Harrelson both have long carried grudges towards Mariotti because of his constant negativity towards the White Sox organization. As a White Sox fan, I love the fact Guillen went after Mariotti because his act is wearing thin.

 

I'm not a fan of Jay Mariotti. I never have been and never will be. As an aspiring journalist, he is someone I definitely would not look to as a role model. It's one thing to be critical of either a sports figure or a team. A columnist's job is to give their opinion. It's another thing to always being overly critical and being constantly negative in everything you write. He has a tendency and a gift for finding a negative tone to anything he writes about. Quite frankly, that's not good journalism.

 

In his column Thursday, Mariotti called for a two-week suspension for Guillen. That suggestion is completely ridicolous. While Guillen was definitely out of line with the "***" remark, it in no way warrants a two-week suspension. At most, maybe a suspension of one or two games would suffice.

 

Mariotti is a coward. That's the bottom line. It's really easy to sit back at the Sun-Times typing away on a computer or pouting about something on ESPN's Around The Horn. As a columnist, he's not at the ballpark every day. Guillen even admitted he's seen Mariotti at U.S. Cellular Field only one time, during last year's postseason. It's really easy to sit back and write anything you want and not worry about the possible consequences because you're not there most of the time.

 

If Mariotti truly has a problem with Guillen or anyone associated with the White Sox, you'd think he would be man enough to confront them in person and let it out. But Mariotti isn't even man enough to do that."

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I just realized something.

 

 

The subtitle of this thread is "Put it all in here"

 

 

I wonder how many times Fairyotti bends over and says that to his significant other?

 

 

:ph34r:

 

 

:D

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QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 10:20 PM)

 

 

Ok, so its a sports bar. Why the hell does it have to be referred to as a "gay sports bar"? Just say the thing is a damn sports bar!

 

That being said, Ozzie had to know that everyone outside of Chicago is looking to dethrone his reign, and this was the perfect thing to do it. People dont take stuff in its context in PC Y2K America. Funny part is, when the Sox win it again, or if Ozzie was even willingly to give them 5 minutes of his time, these same writers will/would be eating 10 miles of his s*** to get an interview.

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wow, people are really freaking out over this

 

just shows how overly sensitive our culture has become

 

:puke

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Wow. Just wow. People are so god damn uptight now-a-days.

 

Whoops, I said god damn, suspend me for 2 weeks. GMAB.

 

I hope JR gives Ozzie a 5 year extension soon.

Edited by SoxFan1

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Its only a matter of time before the guys that make those Cubs Suck shirts to make a Jay is a *** shirt.

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QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 12:17 PM)
Please stop comparing a sexual preference to a race/nationality. They are far far far from the same thing.

 

Do you know that idiot, moron, and imbecile are also offensive? Do you use those words? They have double meanings as well. They were once used as classes of mental retardation. You use the terms now, I am sure, as a why of calling someone stupid. However, you use this word to refer to a mentally challenged person and the person's family will be very offended. The words have double meanings. Many words do. *** refers to a cigarette, a drudge, a peon, a british student, and a sissy or girly man. Put what he said in context and you determine the meaning. It didn't sound like he was calling him a homosexual male. Just my opinion.

This from Mariotti's article, but that's it.

 

1. You are wrong. They are exactly the same thing - traits given at birth.

 

2. Yes, words like that are hurtful as well. Do you rationalize calling people "retard?" Just as wrong. But saying that the word "***" means anything other than a gay slur in the connotation that Ozzie used it in is false. That's like saying the n-word spoken by non-blacks needs to be judged on its context. Are you kidding me? Also, if he meant sissy or girly man, are these not also terms designed to question someone's masculinity, as is calling someone a gay slur? Why do we do this, when the concepts of masculinity and femininity are total lies - socially-designed contructs that dictate how members of a particular sex should and should not act, developed by patriarchal systems through millenia of sexism. Why do we care if someone is gay? What makes this an insult? Why do we care how much of a "man" or "woman" someone is - because society has told us these things are inportant and they're not. They're bulls***.

 

I'm glad Ozzie wasn't fired or suspended. A fine and sensitivity training is fine by me.

 

 

QUOTE(longshot7 @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 11:42 AM)
I have to disagree with nearly everyone - I don't think the media is blowing this out of proportion. What Ozzie said was wrong - even if it was meant to challenge the guy's manhood and not as a gay slur. No matter the context or connotation, it is a gay slur, just like the n-word is a racial slur and k*** is a jewish slur. What's sad is that homophobia and heterosexism is so ingrained in our culture that using the word "***" is a commonplace insult just like calling something "gay" is an insult. Most people that use those words don't mean them as gay slurs, but does that make them any less hurtful to gays, no. "Get that ***" is a common jeer hurled at the TV at our sports bar during football season, and when I point out that it's not cool, I'm the one who's in the wrong. The n-word is not acceptable by non-blacks, and the use of "***" by non-gays is not acceptable either. Another argument is that it's only words and they should only have power when used in specific connotations. I disagree with that. Words, and language in general, are symbols that have a geat deal of power, and need to be wielded responsibly.

 

Now that being said, I certainly don't think Ozzie should be fired. Whether or not he should be suspended, I will leave to Reinsdorf and Williams. I know Jerry & Kenny talked to him about the issues raised by his comments, and I truly think Ozzie will listen to them. It's certainly possible that Ozzie didn't know, like many others (and some of you), that what he said was wrong. Now he knows, and knowing is half the battle.

 

Re-quoting myself to explain the previous response.

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Ken Williams, four months ago:

"Ozzie is still growing into his position and the responsibility of his position, as well as am I. We'll continue to evolve in a way that is first class. ... We want to win in a first-class manner and be known as a first-class organization. We got a little bit of work to do, but we'll keep at it."

 

Ozzie Guillen cannot control himself, and his apologies are not apologies at all. Blaming everyone but yourself is not an apology, it's an embarrassment. The fact that he's turning this organization from one heading in the direction of first class to the gutter, all the while being a lackluster manager at best, only makes it harder to fathom why people want him in Chicago.

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