Sox still trying to trade Dunn?

[NorthSideSox72]

The money for Dunn is gone, we all know this.

 

The question is, how do you best get value out of his current DH slot? Let's look at the options...

 

1. Keep Dunn there. He posts a .750-.800 OPS or the like (his OPS vs RHP last two seasons: .817, .786 - and that is who he will hit against), maybe better if we're lucky, and the team will probably be mediocre in any case. He boosts his value, the Sox can trade him to save a few mil, and maybe get a prospect out of it that is worth something. Or if the team is actually by some miracle competitive AND he is doing well, you keep him around. VALUE: average to below average DH production, possible savings of a few mil and/or a prospect.

 

2. Release him, as suggested by some. You save zero dollars and obtain nothing in return for him. And replace him with... what? Let's break down the possibilities...

 

2 a. Major leaguers that are extra right now - Keppinger, Gillaspie and Viciedo/De Aza. What kind of value do you think those players will provide in a platoon? Likely less than that .750-.800 OPS, but let's say they equal Dunn. OK, at best, you break even on performance. But save no money and get nothing in return.

 

2 b. Minor leaguer? Andy Wilkins is the only guy who appears maybe ready. But it is unlikely, with only a short AAA stint, that he can provide even Dunn-like performance overall. So you get even less value than 2 a, and again, no money saved, and no prospects in return.

 

2 c. Get a re-tread free agent? They'd maybe be as good as Gillappinviciaza, and cost the team extra money. They'd need to perform significantly above Dunn and/or Gillappinviciaza to make that a worthwhile move.

 

That's really all there is to it. Releasing him makes zero sense in any baseball world. There is no added value in doing so. If you keep him, worst case is you get no value, but there is a decent chance you get some money and/or prospects out of it.

 

Releasing Adam Dunn is nonsensical. There is zero good reason to do so, unless some team is willing to give you something (money and/or prospects) for him RIGHT NOW, which NO ONE IS.

 

[southsider2k5]

The money for Dunn is gone, we all know this.

 

The question is, how do you best get value out of his current DH slot? Let's look at the options...

 

1. Keep Dunn there. He posts a .750-.800 OPS or the like (his OPS vs RHP last two seasons: .817, .786 - and that is who he will hit against), maybe better if we're lucky, and the team will probably be mediocre in any case. He boosts his value, the Sox can trade him to save a few mil, and maybe get a prospect out of it that is worth something. Or if the team is actually by some miracle competitive AND he is doing well, you keep him around. VALUE: average to below average DH production, possible savings of a few mil and/or a prospect.

 

2. Release him, as suggested by some. You save zero dollars and obtain nothing in return for him. And replace him with... what? Let's break down the possibilities...

 

2 a. Major leaguers that are extra right now - Keppinger, Gillaspie and Viciedo/De Aza. What kind of value do you think those players will provide in a platoon? Likely less than that .750-.800 OPS, but let's say they equal Dunn. OK, at best, you break even on performance. But save no money and get nothing in return.

 

2 b. Minor leaguer? Andy Wilkins is the only guy who appears maybe ready. But it is unlikely, with only a short AAA stint, that he can provide even Dunn-like performance overall. So you get even less value than 2 a, and again, no money saved, and no prospects in return.

 

2 c. Get a re-tread free agent? They'd maybe be as good as Gillappinviciaza, and cost the team extra money. They'd need to perform significantly above Dunn and/or Gillappinviciaza to make that a worthwhile move.

 

That's really all there is to it. Releasing him makes zero sense in any baseball world. There is no added value in doing so. If you keep him, worst case is you get no value, but there is a decent chance you get some money and/or prospects out of it.

 

Releasing Adam Dunn is nonsensical. There is zero good reason to do so, unless some team is willing to give you something (money and/or prospects) for him RIGHT NOW, which NO ONE IS.

 

I heard that guy was our #4 prospect.

 

[Marty34]

Also, nobody is hating on Marty indiscriminately. We are hating on his arguments because they're bad and selectively blind to counterpoints. I don't know where this persecution complex is coming from but I have nothing against you OR Marty as people, I just find your arguments as flawed as you find the rest of ours.

 

 

My argument is whatever we get back for Dunn isn't worth keeping him. you can believe in Santa Claus and think otherwise if you like.

[witesoxfan]

My argument is whatever we get back for Dunn isn't worth keeping him. you can believe in Santa Claus and think otherwise if you like.

 

So you are saying you'd rather have nothing than something?

 

They could use people with your generosity in sub-Saharan Africa.

[Quin]

This thread is stupid now.

[clyons]

This thread is stupid now.

 

Agreed. They aren't making the playoffs with or without him, and no one's going to take that contract of our hands. Pencil him in, hope for the best, and STFU.

[southsider2k5]

This thread is stupid now.

 

You drag it around like a ball and chain

You wallow in the guilt; you wallow in the pain

You wave it like a flag, you wear it like a crown

Got your mind in the gutter, bringin' everybody down

Complain about the present and blame it on the past

I'd like to find your inner child and kick its little ass

 

Get over it

Get over it

All this b****in' and moanin' and pitchin' a fit

Get over it, get over it

[Harry Chappas]

Agreed. They aren't making the playoffs with or without him, and no one's going to take that contract of our hands. Pencil him in, hope for the best, and STFU.

 

This was the only post I read in this thread and you hit the nail on the head.

 

 

 

 

[Marty34]

Agreed. They aren't making the playoffs with or without him, and no one's going to take that contract of our hands. Pencil him in, hope for the best, and STFU.

 

Why suffer through another Dunn AB when you don't have to?

[witesoxfan]

Why suffer through another Dunn AB when you don't have to?

 

Turn the game off then dude. The White Sox are a legitimate, rational business. You are the one who doesn't like him. Just walk away when he comes up to the plate.

[lasttriptotulsa]

Why suffer through another Dunn AB when you don't have to?

 

I think he's the most entertaining guy on the team to watch hit. Sure he's going to strike out a lot, but there is still that 1 in 20 chance he's going to hit a bomb. I'd much rather watch a guy like that than a little slap hitter who hits .300.

[Princess Dye]

I think he's the most entertaining guy on the team to watch hit. Sure he's going to strike out a lot, but there is still that 1 in 20 chance he's going to hit a bomb. I'd much rather watch a guy like that than a little slap hitter who hits .300.

 

Agreed. The things that make a viewer-who-hates-strikeouts mad....I dont care about those things. Production is what matters and when he had people in front of him/behind him...as in 2012...he was better. As is, last year, was the team's OPS leader.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Jose Paniagua

[BlackSox13]

This thread has hit an all time low.

 

Dump Dunn , pay him to stay off the team to play for another...

 

Sign an inconsistent SP to a multi- year deal...

 

Yes, good idea, sign another player to another potentially bad contract so the people b****ing about Dunn have someone new to b**** about after Dunn is gone.

 

Let's complain about how 1 more year of Dunn takes at-bats away from other players but let's sign a starting pitcher to a 4 year contract because he surely wouldn't take starts away from any of the quality pitching prospects the sox have that are ready now and the ones that could be ready in a year or two.

 

Sounds like a short-bus merry-go-round of idiocracy.

 

 

 

[Marty34]

This thread has hit an all time low.

 

Dump Dunn , pay him to stay off the team to play for another...

 

Sign an inconsistent SP to a multi- year deal...

 

Yes, good idea, sign another player to another potentially bad contract so the people b****ing about Dunn have someone new to b**** about after Dunn is gone.

 

Let's complain about how 1 more year of Dunn takes at-bats away from other players but let's sign a starting pitcher to a 4 year contract because he surely wouldn't take starts away from any of the quality pitching prospects the sox have that are ready now and the ones that could be ready in a year or two.

 

Sounds like a short-bus merry-go-round of idiocracy.

 

You belong to that SABR crowd, but you're not one of the militant ones so I'm sure you know any player you sign has the potential to be a bad contract. What made Dunn's contract so awful was the Sox farm system was than only thing worse than it, they were locked into him. With a lot of money to spend and presumably an improving farm system a mid-rotation starter is not even a drop in the bucket.

[ScottyDo]

You belong to that SABR crowd, but you're not one of the militant ones so I'm sure you know any player you sign has the potential to be a bad contract. What made Dunn's contract so awful was the Sox farm system was than only thing worse than it, they were locked into him. With a lot of money to spend and presumably an improving farm system a mid-rotation starter is not even a drop in the bucket.

The SABRmetricians are coming for you, Martyr34! They guaranteed that Dunn would be great and they vilified poor Ervin Santana, stating that he was never going to amount to anything and was not worth any price.

[Marty34]

Marty doesn't even read people's responses to him. He just says the same s*** every 3 pages.

 

You're one of those SABR people who thinks the game is best played on paper. Get your head out of a book once in a while and watch the game.

[Marty34]

The SABRmetricians are coming for you, Martyr34! They guaranteed that Dunn would be great and they vilified poor Ervin Santana, stating that he was never going to amount to anything and was not worth any price.

 

It's the militant SABR bunch I worry about, ScottyDo. The others I can fend off.

[ScottyDo]

You're one of those SABR people who thinks the game is best played on paper. Get your head out of a book once in a while and watch the game.

Gooble-gobble, gooble-gobble! One of us! One of us!

[lasttriptotulsa]

It's the militant SABR bunch I worry about, ScottyDo. The others I can fend off.

 

You might think you're fending them off, but really they're just laughing at you.

[Marty34]

You might think you're fending them off, but really they're just laughing at you.

 

You're probably right and they are laughing at me. That doesn't mean the joke isn't on them.

[Chicago White Sox]

Marty, if we were to dump Dunn, what exactly would you do at DH next year?

[Marty34]

Marty, if we were to dump Dunn, what exactly would you do at DH next year?

 

DH DeAza, Viciedo in left everyday.

[caulfield12]

DH DeAza, Viciedo in left everyday.

 

 

 

 

OMG, you're really coming around on my boy Dayan.

 

And no trade Alexei Ramirez threads yet this offseason.

 

 

 

 

At any rate, to address one point TUC made:

 

The White Sox have eaten salary before, they just don't do it unless it's absolutely necessary.

 

See Mike MacDougal, Scott Linebrink...and pretty sure there was some cash going the other way with Thome and Contreras, but I'd have to double-check those deals again.

 

They also sent $1 million along with Rios to the Rangers to get that deal done, it would have been more without L. Garcia.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2014 by caulfield12

[LittleHurt05]

I think he's the most entertaining guy on the team to watch hit. Sure he's going to strike out a lot, but there is still that 1 in 20 chance he's going to hit a bomb. I'd much rather watch a guy like that than a little slap hitter who hits .300.

 

Agreed. I didn't watch much White Sox baseball last year, but when I did I actually paid attention when Dunn was up.

 

 

[BlackSox13]

You belong to that SABR crowd, but you're not one of the militant ones so I'm sure you know any player you sign has the potential to be a bad contract. What made Dunn's contract so awful was the Sox farm system was than only thing worse than it, they were locked into him. With a lot of money to spend and presumably an improving farm system a mid-rotation starter is not even a drop in the bucket.

Never have looked at SABR metrics. Nice try tho.

 

You might think you're fending them off, but really they're just laughing at you.

Yup, pretty much.

 

You're probably right and they are laughing at me. That doesn't mean the joke isn't on them.

Just because you have money now doesn't mean it has to be spent now. That money could be used on Dunn's replacement after he's gone, or if Tank goes to DH it can be spent on a LH LF or a LH CF and move Eaton to LF or a catcher or any combo of these . All of those options better utilize the money than spending on pitchers that do not project good at the home run friendly Cell. You really think Jimenez' walks or Santana's HR's will project well at US Cellular? By no means is the joke on us.