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QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 17, 2015 -> 05:01 PM)
Why does Robertson get a pass this season? He has been rather ordinary at best. I advocated trading him at the break and people laughed at me.

Some of it is that he's burned repeatedly by the defense behind him. Some of it is that it could be worse (2014). Some of it is that he's the only free agent we brought in last year who has been actually worth his contract and therefore is the only one we could move for anything.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 17, 2015 -> 10:09 PM)
Some of it is that he's burned repeatedly by the defense behind him. Some of it is that it could be worse (2014). Some of it is that he's the only free agent we brought in last year who has been actually worth his contract and therefore is the only one we could move for anything.

Makes sense, but I would disagree he's been worth his contract. Now that Nate is back we should close by committee (gulp) next year and trade him because of his outrageous contract during winter. A contender will want him IMO.

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 17, 2015 -> 04:20 PM)
Makes sense, but I would disagree he's been worth his contract. Now that Nate is back we should close by committee (gulp) next year and trade him because of his outrageous contract during winter. A contender will want him IMO.

I think Montas is the closer of the future personally.

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By the Numbers:

 

10th time this year Sox lost a game when leading in the 7th inning or later (and the first time didn't happen until May 26th)

Second time Robertson gave up a three run home run in the 9th inning to lose a game.

7th blown save this year for Robertson.

 

It's simply the White Sox...no matter who they bring in the results are exactly the same.

 

Mark

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QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Sep 17, 2015 -> 10:23 PM)
By the Numbers:

 

10th time this year Sox lost a game when leading in the 7th inning or later (and the first time didn't happen until May 26th)

Second time Robertson gave up a three run home run in the 9th inning to lose a game.

7th blown save this year for Robertson.

 

It's simply the White Sox...no matter who they bring in the results are exactly the same.

 

Mark

True. Robertson's performance is just as bad as the worst years of Addy Reed and Bobby Jenks and both were despised.

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Christopher Kamka ‏@ckamka 32m32 minutes ago

 

The game sure has changed over the years:

Ted Lyons: 484 starts, 29 no decisions

Jose Quintana: 117 starts, 50 no decisions

#WhiteSox

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Just a real bad decision not to get out of Robertson's contract when the Yankees claimed him. It's amazing how bad our major FA signings have been over the last 5 years.

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QUOTE (harkness @ Sep 17, 2015 -> 09:04 PM)
Roberston has two pitches and his fastball is meat....

 

He just is so vulnerable. He also comes across to me as soft.

He's had a number of other scares in the ninth as well. Not a good use of money. He may be the worst contract we have now, even more so than Danks.

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QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 17, 2015 -> 06:15 PM)
Just a real bad decision not to get out of Robertson's contract when the Yankees claimed him. It's amazing how bad our major FA signings have been over the last 5 years.

For reference, now that I've looked into how poorly the average free agent actually performs and given that our strategy is to go after the mid-level guys who don't get top dollar, I disagree with this. I don't think it's amazing at all, I think that's exactly what you should expect from the class of free agents we're targeting.

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QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 17, 2015 -> 05:15 PM)
Just a real bad decision not to get out of Robertson's contract when the Yankees claimed him. It's amazing how bad our major FA signings have been over the last 5 years.

 

Go outside and take a deep breath

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QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Sep 17, 2015 -> 11:24 PM)
Go outside and take a deep breath

 

You disagree? The Sox scouting of major league players on other teams seems just awful. Only thing worse was season 2 of True Detective :)

Edited by fathom

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QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 17, 2015 -> 05:25 PM)
You disagree? The Sox scouting of major league players on other teams seems just awful. Only thing worse was season 2 of True Detective :)

Agree

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 17, 2015 -> 03:50 PM)
Christopher Kamka ‏@ckamka 32m32 minutes ago

 

The game sure has changed over the years:

Ted Lyons: 484 starts, 29 no decisions

Jose Quintana: 117 starts, 50 no decisions

#WhiteSox

yep..another good game by Q and another no decision. I know wins mean little in today's game but come on.

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QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 17, 2015 -> 05:25 PM)
You disagree? The Sox scouting of major league players on other teams seems just awful. Only thing worse was season 2 of True Detective :)

It's been an embarrassing year for the White Sox, and what's troubling is they can't even sell us on hope. Nothing short of a complete dismantling of office personnel, coaches, scouts and players will help this team. There's no, "oh lets make a few shrewd moves and we'll be able to compete. Nope.....it's going to take all the right moves to contend in 2017. If Hahn doesn't start by trading Quintana for a haul we may be screwed even further. I'll go as far as to say it will be the most important trade easily in the last decade for the White Sox. We have to realize how depleted we are offensively, how pitching is our surplus, and how valuable someone such as Q is considering talent and contract. Hahn HAS to succeed, and we shouldn't expect less as fans

Edited by Flash Tizzle

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QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Sep 17, 2015 -> 11:36 PM)
It's been an embarrassing year for the White Sox, and what's troubling is they can't even sell us on hope. Nothing short of a complete dismantling of office personnel, coaches, scouts and players will help this team. There's no, "oh lets make a few shrewd moves and we'll be able to compete. Nope.....it's going to take all the right moves to contend in 2017. If Hahn doesn't start by trading Quintana for a haul we may be screwed even further. I'll go as far as to say it will be the most important trade easily in the last decade for the White Sox. We have to realize how depleted we are offensively, how pitching is our surplus, and how valuable someone such as Q is considering talent and contract. Hahn HAS to succeed, and we shouldn't expect less as fans

 

They also have made some poor choices in terms of how guys would fit into the clubhouse/get along with coaches. Orlando Cabrera, Swisher, Samardzija are prime examples.

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QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Sep 17, 2015 -> 11:36 PM)
It's been an embarrassing year for the White Sox, and what's troubling is they can't even sell us on hope. Nothing short of a complete dismantling of office personnel, coaches, scouts and players will help this team. There's no, "oh lets make a few shrewd moves and we'll be able to compete. Nope.....it's going to take all the right moves to contend in 2017. If Hahn doesn't start by trading Quintana for a haul we may be screwed even further. I'll go as far as to say it will be the most important trade easily in the last decade for the White Sox. We have to realize how depleted we are offensively, how pitching is our surplus, and how valuable someone such as Q is considering talent and contract. Hahn HAS to succeed, and we shouldn't expect less as fans

 

Also, I think what you mentioned is why it's disappointing they didn't unload Robertson last month. You can easily acquire a closer for cheaper/less years going forward if you start to make some progress in talent acquisition this offseason. No reason to pay huge money for Robertson given his struggles this year. I highly doubt he'd get the same amount of money if he was a FA this offseason.

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QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 17, 2015 -> 05:15 PM)
Just a real bad decision not to get out of Robertson's contract when the Yankees claimed him. It's amazing how bad our major FA signings have been over the last 5 years.

 

You have to remember though, at the time we were going for it!! At least KW was.

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QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Sep 17, 2015 -> 05:36 PM)
It's been an embarrassing year for the White Sox, and what's troubling is they can't even sell us on hope. Nothing short of a complete dismantling of office personnel, coaches, scouts and players will help this team. There's no, "oh lets make a few shrewd moves and we'll be able to compete. Nope.....it's going to take all the right moves to contend in 2017. If Hahn doesn't start by trading Quintana for a haul we may be screwed even further. I'll go as far as to say it will be the most important trade easily in the last decade for the White Sox. We have to realize how depleted we are offensively, how pitching is our surplus, and how valuable someone such as Q is considering talent and contract. Hahn HAS to succeed, and we shouldn't expect less as fans

 

Does anyone really think Reinsdorf will clean house? I would be so surprised and happy. The first move would be for Ventura to get fired and I'll maybe believe it could then happen. But I don't think it will.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 17, 2015 -> 10:18 PM)
For reference, now that I've looked into how poorly the average free agent actually performs and given that our strategy is to go after the mid-level guys who don't get top dollar, I disagree with this. I don't think it's amazing at all, I think that's exactly what you should expect from the class of free agents we're targeting.

 

 

as far as Robertson is concerned the question to be asked is can he turn it around in 2016 and get back to what the Yankees and Sox both thought he would be? I think he can do that and I also don't think Nate Jones is quite there yet either. He has been hit hard the last few times out. Since DR has a four year contract I don't see him going anywhere

Edited by elrockinMT

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QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Sep 17, 2015 -> 11:08 PM)
as far as Robertson is concerned the question to be asked is can he turn it around in 2016 and get back to what the Yankees and Sox both thought he would be? I think he can do that and I also don't think Nate Jones is quite there yet either. He has been hit hard the last few times out. Since DR has a four year contract I don't see him going anywhere

 

it all depends on if the sox improve for next yr in personnel. if the sox do improve, if they get the missing pieces that will be needed to win, then by default, robertson will have better stats.

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QUOTE (AlSoxfan @ Sep 17, 2015 -> 04:35 PM)
yep..another good game by Q and another no decision. I know wins mean little in today's game but come on.

 

Maybe Robin should let him win his own games. Robertson is starting to join the mental midgets.

 

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QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Sep 17, 2015 -> 01:55 PM)
It pisses me off, that's for sure. Sick of bad defensive players. Would rather see how Sanchez could hold up at short and Saladino at 3b. They're potentially part of this future, Olt isnt.

 

I guess the organization knows what they have in those two.

 

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QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 17, 2015 -> 04:42 PM)
They also have made some poor choices in terms of how guys would fit into the clubhouse/get along with coaches. Orlando Cabrera, Swisher, Samardzija are prime examples.

 

At least Cabrera performed on the field. personally I think clubhouse chemistry is over rated. The "Swingin' A" of the early / mid 70's hated each other. yet they won three straight World Series.

 

It's about talent, pure and simple.

 

The Sox have very little of it.

 

Mark

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QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Sep 18, 2015 -> 01:31 AM)
At least Cabrera performed on the field. personally I think clubhouse chemistry is over rated. The "Swingin' A" of the early / mid 70's hated each other. yet they won three straight World Series.

 

It's about talent, pure and simple.

 

The Sox have very little of it.

 

Mark

 

lets not forget the yanks of the reggie jackson era.

 

but those were the exceptions to the rule. the clubhouse rule may be overrated but in most cases it is better to have harmony.

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QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Sep 17, 2015 -> 08:31 PM)
At least Cabrera performed on the field. personally I think clubhouse chemistry is over rated. The "Swingin' A" of the early / mid 70's hated each other. yet they won three straight World Series.

 

It's about talent, pure and simple.

 

The Sox have very little of it.

 

Mark

I agree with the idea of how overrated clubhouse chemistry is. Mostly because as fans we have limited knowledge of how things really are behind closed doors. There's no way to know whether negative chemistry makes players underperform, or positive makes them perform well. Maybe one person can spoil everything; but I'd guess otherwise. Especially with the divide among Latin speaking and English players which I'm sure naturally exist.

 

 

 

 

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