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2017-18 official NBA discussion thread

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QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 05:04 PM)
Kyrie is better but I completely disagree that he's way better. I don't think this trade makes Cleveland better this year but it doesn't make Boston better than them either. Cleveland is still going to win the east(unless LeBron dies) and they're going to have a top 3 pick. Meanwhile, Boston will still finish 2nd in the east and lost a top 3 pick.

Agree with everything you said. I can't figure out why Ainge does this but doesn't make the move for Butler (who would have put them ahead of Cleveland in the East). This seemed more lateral, albeit a year from now, Boston is positioned to be the best team in the east (presuming LBJ ends up in the west) and at that point I do like Irving for them (I just can't see giving up the Nets pick + Crowder). I actually think Cleveland stays about as good, since they have Lebron and Crowder is a solid player who gives them more depth and takes some pressure of LBJ. It isn't like IT is a scrub, he has his defensive flaws, but he's a pretty damn good player (albeit, the hip issue is a concern). Cleveland must have had some other pretty good offers on the table for Kyrie.

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QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 07:04 PM)
Kyrie is better but I completely disagree that he's way better. I don't think this trade makes Cleveland better this year but it doesn't make Boston better than them either. Cleveland is still going to win the east(unless LeBron dies) and they're going to have a top 3 pick. Meanwhile, Boston will still finish 2nd in the east and lost a top 3 pick.

I really wouldn't be surprised if neither of those things happen.

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QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 07:08 PM)
Agree with everything you said. I can't figure out why Ainge does this but doesn't make the move for Butler (who would have put them ahead of Cleveland in the East). This seemed more lateral, albeit a year from now, Boston is positioned to be the best team in the east (presuming LBJ ends up in the west) and at that point I do like Irving for them (I just can't see giving up the Nets pick + Crowder). I actually think Cleveland stays about as good, since they have Lebron and Crowder is a solid player who gives them more depth and takes some pressure of LBJ. It isn't like IT is a scrub, he has his defensive flaws, but he's a pretty damn good player (albeit, the hip issue is a concern). Cleveland must have had some other pretty good offers on the table for Kyrie.

 

Thomas isn't any worse defensively than Kyrie.

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QUOTE (Boogua @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 07:13 PM)
I really wouldn't be surprised if neither of those things happen.

Well you'll be wrong then. :)

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Crowder and a Brooklyn pick was their holdup for Jimmy supposedly.

 

Would you rather have...

 

IT and Butler/George or just Kyrie

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I think part of it is that they didn't want to give Thomas a 5-year deal at 30 mil+ a year.

 

Also, if they traded for Butler or George, that would have made it significantly more difficult to sign Hayward. Remember that they already had to give Bradley away for basically nothing.

 

So it's more like Irving/Hayward instead of Thomas/Butler or George, with maybe a slim chance of still getting Hayward in the latter.

 

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The more I think about this trade, the more ridiculous it sounds.

 

1. This trade helps Cavs maintain its advantage over Celtics in 2018. IT + Crowder > Kyrie

2. This trade gives Cavs a chance at a superstar to play next to Lebron, and may ultimately convince him to stay past this year. Celtics basically gave their biggest roadblock a chance to remain relevant. Had they let Kyrie go elsewhere and Cavs trades him for whatever they could get, Lebron most likely leaves, and Cavs go back to rock bottom.

3. Cavs had no leverage, they had to trade Kyrie, yet Celtics were dumb enough to give them more value in return.

4. Lose out on Butler and George so you could pay an arm and leg more for Kyrie, just dumb.

 

I was giving Ainge the benefit of the doubt for holding onto his picks, but turns out he's just a f***ing idiot.

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Celts held on to the Brooklyn pick to make a move like THIS? Christ

 

And the Cavs fall ass backwards into the #1 pick for the 700th time as well. Awesome.

Edited by Jenksy Cat

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QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 08:09 PM)
The more I think about this trade, the more ridiculous it sounds.

 

2. This trade gives Cavs a chance at a superstar to play next to Lebron, and may ultimately convince him to stay past this year. Celtics basically gave their biggest roadblock a chance to remain relevant. Had they let Kyrie go elsewhere and Cavs trades him for whatever they could get, Lebron most likely leaves, and Cavs go back to rock bottom.

 

Lebron isn't going to stay because of a guy that might be good in 3 years. That's why they traded Wiggins almost instantly.

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QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 09:12 PM)
Lebron isn't going to stay because of a guy that might be good in 3 years. That's why they traded Wiggins almost instantly.

 

But he would consider staying if they could win the East AND get the first or second pick. Remember, they don't have to give up anything to get the pick, they could still have keep IT (who could re-sign on a friendly deal) and Crowder beyond 2018 and the pick is just a bonus.

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QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 09:26 PM)
But he would consider staying if they could win the East AND get the first or second pick. Remember, they don't have to give up anything to get the pick, they could still have keep IT (who could re-sign on a friendly deal) and Crowder beyond 2018 and the pick is just a bonus.

 

IT is absolutely not signing a team friendly deal. Lebron is 100% gone to a super team in LA

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QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 09:26 PM)
But he would consider staying if they could win the East AND get the first or second pick. Remember, they don't have to give up anything to get the pick, they could still have keep IT (who could re-sign on a friendly deal) and Crowder beyond 2018 and the pick is just a bonus.

 

They won the East last year with a 25 year old stud PG, and yet here we are. If they don't beat GS, it's not going to change anything.

 

By the time that pick is good enough to move the needle, he's going to be 35.

 

Edit- Also, as Jenks said, IT2 isn't taking a discount. He had sandals custom made with a brinks' truck and piles of cash for Christ's sake.

Edited by ZoomSlowik

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Obviously this is a win for the Cavs because they at worst maintained for this year and added a huge future asset. However, I really don't think this affects Lebron in any significant way.

 

The biggest thing this does is give them a head start once Lebron leaves.

 

Things could have worked out better for the Celtics with all of their assets, but they didn't control the timing of the Butler/George trades. It seemed like they knew they were getting Hayward with the way they acted, so they couldn't screw that up. They're still better than they were last year.

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QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 09:45 PM)
IT is absolutely not signing a team friendly deal. Lebron is 100% gone to a super team in LA

 

I like how you speak with a absolute certainty about the future. What are you doing on a forum then?

 

IT does not in fact have to sign a team friendly deal, Cavs can afford him on any deal by moving Thompson or JR. But it was more of a suggestion since he gets to stay with a contender. And if you think Lebron is "100%" going to LA you're wrong. League is already onto them for tampering with George and possibly Lebron. And who exactly is on that LA super team? Lonzo and Lavar? Not to mention leaving East for West is just dumb.

 

 

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QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 10:09 PM)
I like how you speak with a absolute certainty about the future. What are you doing on a forum then?

 

IT does not in fact have to sign a team friendly deal, Cavs can afford him on any deal by moving Thompson or JR. But it was more of a suggestion since he gets to stay with a contender. And if you think Lebron is "100%" going to LA you're wrong. League is already onto them for tampering with George and possibly Lebron. And who exactly is on that LA super team? Lonzo and Lavar? Not to mention leaving East for West is just dumb.

 

Yep cause superstars have never in the history of the NBA left for LA and aging injury prone non-superstars like IT always take team friendly deals vs. the absolute max offer out from any team.

 

Lebron has a couple years left of elite-ness and isn't going to waste it on the dysfunctional mess that he's left Cleveland. If Lebron was staying in Cleveland he would have signed more than a 1 year deal with them to show everyone else "hey I'm staying - lets do this". Instead he signed 1 year deals so that he can leave at any time he wants and go to a situation like LA with a ton of money to spend and a promising young PG.

Edited by Jenksy Cat

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QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 10:09 PM)
I like how you speak with a absolute certainty about the future. What are you doing on a forum then?

 

IT does not in fact have to sign a team friendly deal, Cavs can afford him on any deal by moving Thompson or JR. But it was more of a suggestion since he gets to stay with a contender. And if you think Lebron is "100%" going to LA you're wrong. League is already onto them for tampering with George and possibly Lebron. And who exactly is on that LA super team? Lonzo and Lavar? Not to mention leaving East for West is just dumb.

 

Moving Thompson or Smith won't exactly be easy. A lot fewer teams have room for them now that the cap spike has passed. They also don't have a ton of assets to use as sweeteners.

 

Also, LOL at tampering charges mattering. The Lakers will probably get fined, MAYBE lose a draft pick after the fact. Every team does it every off-season and it's extremely difficult to prove.

 

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QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 09:50 PM)
They won the East last year with a 25 year old stud PG, and yet here we are. If they don't beat GS, it's not going to change anything.

 

By the time that pick is good enough to move the needle, he's going to be 35.

 

I said the chance of him staying is greater after this trade than before. Much of it depends how ready are the top 5 guys in the draft. If they show that they could come in year 1 and play like a rookie KD, Towns or Davis, add that to IT, Love, and Crowder, it's a more convincing case for Lebron to stay.

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QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 10:20 PM)
Moving Thompson or Smith won't exactly be easy. A lot fewer teams have room for them now that the cap spike has passed. They also don't have a ton of assets to use as sweeteners.

 

Also, LOL at tampering charges mattering. The Lakers will probably get fined, MAYBE lose a draft pick after the fact. Every team does it every off-season and it's extremely difficult to prove.

 

You said Lebron don't have patience to wait for young guys to develop but he would go to LA to play in a much tougher conference with Lonzo/Randle and whoever else they could fit under cap?

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QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 10:21 PM)
I said the chance of him staying is greater after this trade than before. Much of it depends how ready are the top 5 guys in the draft. If they show that they could come in year 1 and play like a rookie KD, Towns or Davis, add that to IT, Love, and Crowder, it's a more convincing case for Lebron to stay.

 

He's not going to know how good they are before he has to make a decision. Also, none of those guys were superstars as rookies. It's going to be 2 more years off his career before those guys are real difference makers even in the best case scenario, probably more.

 

Kyrie and Love weren't enough to make him commit, so downgrading at PG and adding a role player aren't likely to swing things much.

 

 

 

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QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 10:25 PM)
You said Lebron don't have patience to wait for young guys to develop but he would go to LA to play in a much tougher conference with Lonzo/Randle and whoever else they could fit under cap?

 

Lonzo, Ingram (pretty big one to skip) and Randle are in the league already. That's a big difference. He's also likely not going alone.

 

It's obviously a concern for the Cavs, otherwise Kyrie wouldn't have been so anxious to get out of there.

 

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QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 10:31 PM)
Lonzo, Ingram (pretty big one to skip) and Randle are in the league already. That's a big difference. He's also likely not going alone.

 

It's obviously a concern for the Cavs, otherwise Kyrie wouldn't have been so anxious to get out of there.

 

Lakers have 41m committed for 2018. Find a way to dump Deng and they have 22m.

 

Ball/Ingram/Randle + Potential free agents:

Lebron

George

Boogie

Westbrook

 

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QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 10:29 PM)
He's not going to know how good they are before he has to make a decision. Also, none of those guys were superstars as rookies. It's going to be 2 more years off his career before those guys are real difference makers even in the best case scenario, probably more.

 

Kyrie and Love weren't enough to make him commit, so downgrading at PG and adding a role player aren't likely to swing things much.

 

Because we did not know those 3 guys were going to be good and 90% of the league didn't pick them to win ROY. Just as we do not know Markelle Fultz is the most NBA ready rookie this year.

 

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 10:31 PM)
Lonzo, Ingram (pretty big one to skip) and Randle are in the league already. That's a big difference. He's also likely not going alone.

 

It's obviously a concern for the Cavs, otherwise Kyrie wouldn't have been so anxious to get out of there.

 

What? That's not the story.

 

And how many years of Lebron's career will it take off for Lonzo/Ingram to be real difference makers on a championship team? I purposely did not mention Ingram because he looked BAD last year, and he's also a bad fit on the floor at the same time as Lebron.

Edited by 2005thxfrthmmrs

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QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 10:38 PM)
How did we not get more for Butler

 

#GarPax

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