Look at Ray Ray Run

I thought he'd get 5/125 so I was ready to spend that much, but I also understand that is more than Wheeler is worth at this point in time; I just simply think Wheeler is going to take off in the next 2-3 years and propel himself into the upper echelon of starters... but I've felt that way about plenty of players in my life who fell flat on their face, or simply didn't improve. Typically, 29 year olds in baseball do not get better; Wheeler has to skirt that to succeed. Paying for future production should be what free agency is all about, but paying in hopes that a 29 year old develops and improves is of course riskier than doing such for a 24 or 25 year old. Wheeler's projections aren't really rosey, but I just think the public projections are wrong on him. I believe he projects worse than most every starter none of Soxtalks want.

Say's who? They offered 5/125, how the heck is 6/132 a better deal? He didn't take the 7 million extra from the Sox; I don't think another 7 million is a game changer here; especially with another year attached.

You see a little different stuff in Japan. He could be a great fastball hitter who struggles with off-speed - which would be more beneficial in MLB and Nippon baseball. But if hes a bad fastball hitter who succeeds vs off speed then his k-rate would be very alarming. Tough to analyze these guys.

Same; always appreciate different view points and I agree with you regarding wealth management accounts and etc. Bottom lines drive a lot more decisions in the financial sector than it may in the massive contract/entertainment world. Ego's are much more involved when it comes to numbers for individuals, and the Unions goal is not individualized - it's typically a broad goal.

How is that obvious at all? The driving force according to actual reports was family and not money. The higher up in the market you go the more neccessary and the more pressure you feel to take the highest guaranteed offer. As I mentioned tax calculations 5 years out on a MLB contract is difficult to forecast exactly as it's tied directly to scheduling and tax laws change with relative frequency. You pay taxes based on the city you are in for that game, not based on your home teams locations. Youd need a schedule 5 years out and youd need to factor every city and how many games and etc. Its certainly possible though. If you can point me to a case of tax reasons driving a player to take a lesser offer I'd love to read about it. Gross salaries are how wages grow in baseball. Net take home is not the driving force behind salary growth. If I come taxes were a driving force in negotiations then teams in California would consistently have to pay more for the same quality of player vs Texas and Florida and that simply does not happen and "good agents" would charge California teams more than Florida teams.

The 71st pick is worth about 3.5 million. That means the projected outcome for that slot is like .5 career WAR. The odds the 71st pick becomes as good as even one year of Colome is damn near zero. Claiming the return here is better is just being negative, again.

All I can say is this is not at all how professional sports work in negotiations and the majority of players absolutely do not ignore the union on this stance, and it doesn't make their agents bad at their jobs. The agents income is tied solely to the salary growth of the players, and the growth of salaries is tied directly to gross income - not net income. Players and agents would be working against their best interests if they took lesser offers consistently. Because your typical union negotiating tactics aren't really meaningful here (cost of living based on location and etc), the gross value of a contract is what drives the market upward. For example, in most unions you can factor in things like cost of living to negotiate raises but when you enter this stratosphere of dollars, the cost of living doesn't decrease or increase salary demands; nor do most other typical union drivers. All of these guys are negotiating on an even playing field, with the sole driver being guaranteed dollars.

The Yankees literally were quoted after the meeting saying they feared and felt after the meeting that Cole preferred the West Coast.

Deferred money isn't taken seriously because of the time value of money; it has nothing to do with taxes. At this level of money, this just isn't true - this is something I can actually speak on from a position of knowledge for once as I actually have real sources for once in my life on this. The union wants you taking the most guaranteed money - period, end of story. Your agent certainly wants you taking the most guaranteed money. It doesn't mean the union called Wheeler yelling at him, but a part of the union messaging and education is on contracts and maximizing your worth for your "brothers and union peers." The union couldn't care less about taxes state to state. For example, if the Rangers or Marlins offered Manny 285 million, even though there's no income tax and California tax is absurd, he wouldn't sign there because the Net was higher. The gross is what matters for growing contracts. Every player who takes less decreases the growth slightly. Also, your last sentence is spot on. There's ways around all of this tax nonsense anyway.

Say what? They've had the easiest schedule in the NBA, and they are still 8-14. It's not getting better from here. Lavine is just another high volume scorer on a bad team. His defense makes James Harden look like Marcus Ginyard on that side of the floor. His shot selection is piss poor. I bought into Lavine for a lot of reasons this off-season - there was a lot saying he could take a huge leap forward this year. It didn't happen. Being the 8th seed would be significantly worse than being one of the worst teams in the NBA, but I don't think we have to worry too much about that. The Bulls blow big leads because they have zero defensive discipline, and they are one of the worst fast break teams in the NBA on defense and offense.

Can you post these rumors that the Angels would pay "nearly any price?" My point remains; the Yankees would outbid the Angels for Cole - from knowing what we know about Cashman, and what he actually did say at the meeting yesterday.

If this is true, the NYY couldn't pay Cole enough to lure him East and Cashman has been infatuated with the guy for over a decade. The yankees basically told the guy the money would be what he wants and he still would have passed. This could have just been a shit off season for this stuff. Cole wanted to go home. Stras has reportedly wanted to stay in Wash and Wheeler wanted to stay out east. It is what it is.

He told the twins yesterday, ftr, when they were getting ready to submit. At that point I'm sure they knew the twins weren't going anywhere high enough to push it. Sox gave 7 million more so 10 million more certainly wouldnt be enough. At some point you need to just move on. As I noted yesterday, the union typically wants a player to take the most money. Reason being, salaries increase marginally over time. It may only be 7 million more from the Sox but it's 6% more and within the market that matters. This is about growing salaries and egos for contract sizes. Taxes arent really something that makes players pause I dont think. His agent gets commission on the full amount too, so I doubt many agents are trying to talk their client into the smaller number ever.

Theres really no need to be a dickhead about the site in general.

I know everyone is used to the past few off-season, but it's possible to meet and submit a bid. Then an agent circles back and says we need this or we're out. Possible cole had an outlandish price to play out east or in the midwest and yanks were only suitor so he signed with the Angels.

I mean, the Wheeler report wasnt exactly wrong - the sox offered the most so I will give a pass there. Still not sure how he got a scoop this big before some big time national writers but, I'll give the benefit of the doubt until this is proven otherwise.

Many fans who are as disappointed as the organization will point to Gerrit Cole or Stephen Strasburg as the next starting options. But the White Sox aren’t necessarily looking for a pitcher for the top of their rotation, or one in their projected financial stratosphere as much as finding a veteran to fit with Lucas Giolito, Reynaldo López, Dylan Cease and the return of a healthy Michael Kopech. I'm not angry about the wheeler thing, and I am glad they're going to continue their pursuits and shore up the roster. It was an OK piece by merkin but that paragraph above is a joke. The logic for the Sox not looking for the best is just awful. Just call it what it is; their owner won't spend that kind of money on a pitcher, period.

Not sure they're fucked. Madison Bumgarner is not my favorite FA, but he'd be an incredibly massive upgrade over what they have.

Wait, they didnt have the best offer? Last year everyone said endlessly that the best offer was the most guaranteed money. Now this year, they do that and people still say they didnt make the best offer. Some mental gymnastics taking place here.

The minimum required value LOL? They offered more money than every other team in baseball. So the Sox minimum value was more than every other team in the league. This is a pointless conversation; you're just bitter to be bitter. There's no basis for your anger, and the White Sox did what they said but didn't get the player. Shit happens. Have a good one.

Please, tell me what the White Sox did wrong here. The guy signed before the Winter Meetings and you're acting like they drug this out like Machado.

So name a price; again, I'd love to hear how that conversation goes between an agent and a FO person. Costs the Phillies 118 but for you guys, 130-135. You in?

But what about if we OFFERED HIM 200 MILLION!!

Um... hmmm They implied they weren't going to be outbid. They weren't outbid. That's what putting up means. You can't make a decision for someone, sorry. Amazing how people can't grasp this simple concept. You were one of the main people screaming they just need to offer the most money last off-season; now they do, and you still b**** because they didn't pay enough of some "fiancee" tax that you knew nothing about. Maybe Wheeler wouldn't have even taken 150 million from the Sox. You honestly have no idea. Do you think an agent can call and tell a team... well, your bid is best but he doesn't really want to play with you guys because he prefers the east coast. Can you offer more and we'll think about it... lol

Yeah, I am inspired that for the first time in my 32 years on this planet the White Sox said they would not be outbid for a high end target, and they weren't. You can get angry that the White Sox couldn't convince Wheeler's wife/fiancee to pick Chicago, I'll be happy that the organization finally fucking put up when they said they would.